maccored wrote: » mainland ... europe, china, france? Does ireland have a 'mainland'?
ancapailldorcha wrote: » I've honestly never heard anyone in the mainland use the term "Partitionist". To be honest, most of them never even think about Northern Ireland. The older generation perhaps. For younger people, I'd say the DUP have just become a figure of hate given their pro-Brexit stance along with the weird pile of nonsense some of them seem to believe about the world being 2,000 years old, HIV denialism, etc.
facehugger99 wrote: » If you can't see the difference between a 'people' being united and a 'country' being united, then I'm at a loss to explain it any better. If Ireland reach the Rugby WC final in September, all the people on the island of Ireland will be united in their support of the team. Do you think that means that we'll magically become a unified country?
FrancieBrady wrote: » I apologise. I don't know where you are making the distinction here. Can you point it out. There are no full stops used in the sentence, but you bolded one bit, and inferred that it means , 'The firm will of the Irish Nation...' is to 'unite the people of Ireland' in mind only. If you are saying something different please correct me.
facehugger99 wrote: » I suspected it might go over your head - don't worry about it.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Because I haven't a clue otherwise what you are going on about.
facehugger99 wrote: » Any particular reason you finished your quote from the Article at that point Francie? Perhaps it wouldn't have suited your argument to quote the full Article - lets have a wee look shall we? It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island. Not seeing anything aspirational in that about uniting a Country - perhaps you could point out the relevant section your were referring to? No cheating now by curtailing the quote where it suits you
It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.
FrancieBrady wrote: » 'It is the firm will of the Irish Nation...' WILL: *a deliberate or fixed desire or intention. *the thing that one desires or ordains. *intend, desire, or wish (something) to happen.
facehugger99 wrote: » Ah, so the term 'partitionist' in relation to NI, changes meaning, not only based on who it refers to but by whom it is used. Seems like a very slippery term indeed. Are there any other factors that influence its meaning, perhaps the time of day it is used?
It has mostly been used to describe those in the Republic of Ireland who view Northern Ireland and the people who live there as separate and different. It is usually used among Irish nationalists and republicans "as a criticism of those in the south who pay lip-service to the ideal of Irish unity but who are smugly comfortable with a 26 county republic".
facehugger99 wrote: » Of course it refers to a unification of the country. Francie said it aspires to it. Quite a difference.
BonnieSituation wrote: » Given that Francie threw up the text of Art 3, I was wondering if you could go through how it in anyway doesn't mean to refer to reunification and reintegration of the national territory?
facehugger99 wrote: » The Constitution aspires to a unity of the people not a unity of the country. It is a very clear and deliberate distinction.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » I've honestly never heard anyone in the mainland use the term "Partitionist".
FrancieBrady wrote: » It wouldn't be for me to call them 'partitionists' though as an Irish citizen. That would be a perfectly legitimate term for a UK citizen to use though.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Then they are NOT 'happy with the status quo' which is an Irish sovereign independent state.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Sorry Rob, I don't understand what you are getting at.
Chips Lovell wrote: » Without straying too far into semantics, I'd imagine there's a fair few unionists who'd see unification with Ireland as partition of the UK.
RobMc59 wrote: » They are entitled to think that-as with any division of a country there will be people unhappy with how it works out for them-look at Korea or India.
RobMc59 wrote: » They may want reunification with the UK.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Sorry?
RobMc59 wrote: » Some may argue they yearn for reunification and what is reality now is partition.
FrancieBrady wrote: » I haven't forgotten anything. I was referring to citizens of the south, when I use the word 'partitionist'. Hence my original conversation with ancapailldorcha. The equivalent of a southern partitionist in the north, is a Unionist, who supports and is in favour of partition. I don't see how you can live in the south, be happy with the status quo here, and call yourself a Unionist. Simple point originally, and tbh, not of much importance.
