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Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

JCX BXC

The seat map for the B767-200 being leased by EI next year are available on the Aer Lingus website, the seating is 2,3,2 in economy (As was suspected) and 2,2,2 in business

There are 189 economy seats and 12 Business seats making a total of the reported 201 seats.

Anyone know whether the B767 will be repainted, partially or entirely, in the EI colours for the 6 months that its leased for?

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billy few mates

These aircraft will most likely be painted to suit
Paint slot availability (these can be hard to come by and may need to be booked well in advance)
Planning (no point in going to the expense of painting an aircraft that isn't due a repaint just yet for the sake of it)
Budget, I would say they probably have set aside X amount per year for rebranding.

Van.Bosch

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Is the second Avro still at FCO getting repainted?

On its way back from FCO now.

Elaine762

Will we (ever) see Aer lingus re launching Dubai or maybe Doha or even a South African route with the 321LR? I believe they would have the range for it and Dubai wouldnt be a new market for EI

Van.Bosch

Elaine762 wrote: »

Will we (ever) see Aer lingus re launching Dubai or maybe Doha or even a South African route with the 321LR? I believe they would have the range for it and Dubai wouldnt be a new market for EI

Doubt it:

A) who would choose an A321 over the QR and EK services

it’s mainly connections which drive those routes, EI can only offer connections to the US
C) EI could make more money deploying it to the East Coast USA.

Elaine762

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Doubt it:

A) who would choose an A321 over the QR and EK services
it’s mainly connections which drive those routes, EI can only offer connections to the US
C) EI could make more money deploying it to the East Coast USA.

So while smaller airlines in Europe like Austrian, tap, alitalia are exploring new markets such as Tel Aviv, Cape Town, Asia etc, Aer Lingus will only and forever focus in North America? That does not seem ver promising. iberia is also about profitability and still in the recent years we saw China and Japan, south Africa. US expansion, apart from their main focus in South America

alancostello

Elaine762 wrote: »

So while smaller airlines in Europe like Austrian, tap, alitalia are exploring new markets such as Tel Aviv, Cape Town, Asia etc, Aer Lingus will only and forever focus in North America? That does not seem ver promising. iberia is also about profitability and still in the recent years we saw China and Japan, south Africa. US expansion, apart from their main focus in South America

To be fair you specifically asked about Dubai, Doha, or South Africa, and his points are valid for those routes (not to mention South Africa would be an A332 flight, 11-12 hours long, not possible on an A321LR). Also those routes you mentioned are already saturated either directly or through LHR/CDG/AMS. DUB is geographically positioned best for North America connections, people flying east from the EU aren’t going to want to backtrack hours from their destination. If an eastern or southern route launches it’ll have to be one that can sustain itself mostly on DUB traffic, connections to the EU won’t be a big proportion of traffic, and in the case of Far East routes it’d be quicker to go transpacific to the US. Tokyo might be an option, but an A321LR couldn’t make it, Moscow maybe? But an A320 could do that so they probably would have launched it if they could.

Elaine762

alancostello wrote: »

To be fair you specifically asked about Dubai, Doha, or South Africa, and his points are valid for those routes (not to mention South Africa would be an A332 flight, 11-12 hours long, not possible on an A321LR). Also those routes you mentioned are already saturated either directly or through LHR/CDG/AMS. DUB is geographically positioned best for North America connections, people flying east from the EU aren’t going to want to backtrack hours from their destination. If an eastern or southern route launches it’ll have to be one that can sustain itself mostly on DUB traffic, connections to the EU won’t be a big proportion of traffic, and in the case of Far East routes it’d be quicker to go transpacific to the US. Tokyo might be an option, but an A321LR couldn’t make it, Moscow maybe? But an A320 could do that so they probably would have launched it if they could.

MAD is geographically further from Asia and still iberia opened China and Japan.
Id see Bangkok being launched as a holiday destination before Tokyo for Aer Lingus if its depending on the traffic from Ireland. In regards to the connections you would be surprised on the BA flights (and Virgin just launched the same route too) to Sao Paolo and Rio de Janeiro, and people who connect from like MAD/LIS- LHR and then LHR - BRAZIL. And this is an example of a going back to go onwards. Its all about the price and timings most of the time. Same could be to Asia if Aer Lingus opened a new destination. Id easily see CDG-DUB-BKK if price is competitive

alancostello

Elaine762 wrote: »

MAD is geographically further from Asia and still iberia opened China and Japan.
Id see Bangkok being launched as a holiday destination before Tokyo for Aer Lingus if its depending on the traffic from Ireland. In regards to the connections you would be surprised on the BA flights (and Virgin just launched the same route too) to Sao Paolo and Rio de Janeiro, and people who connect from like MAD/LIS- LHR and then LHR - BRAZIL. And this is an example of a going back to go onwards. Its all about the price and timings most of the time. Same could be to Asia if Aer Lingus opened a new destination. Id easily see CDG-DUB-BKK if price is competitive

Yes but Spain also has a population ten times the size of ours, and offers connections to and from South America, a not-so-saturated market

Bangkok is not a bad shout, I’d personally love Singapore but it’d be far more likely by Singapore Airlines itself.

smurfjed

What lessons do you think EI learnt the last time that they tried going to Dubai ?

Kev11491

Elaine762 wrote: »

MAD is geographically further from Asia and still iberia opened China and Japan.
Id see Bangkok being launched as a holiday destination before Tokyo for Aer Lingus if its depending on the traffic from Ireland. In regards to the connections you would be surprised on the BA flights (and Virgin just launched the same route too) to Sao Paolo and Rio de Janeiro, and people who connect from like MAD/LIS- LHR and then LHR - BRAZIL. And this is an example of a going back to go onwards. Its all about the price and timings most of the time. Same could be to Asia if Aer Lingus opened a new destination. Id easily see CDG-DUB-BKK if price is competitive

I imagine Tokyo would be the most likely if they were going to go that direction but at the moment North American traffic seems to be the most logical route for them to go, especially when you see WOW air scaling back, that's an opportunity for EI to seize.

Tenger

smurfjed wrote: »

What lessons do you think EI learnt the last time that they tried going to Dubai ?

None. Their current DUB-MIA is repeating the same mistakes that they did in 2006
-No onward interline/codeshare deal into South America. (Its an AA hub city)
-Flight lands too late for many transfer pax, meaning an additional overnight stay.
Flight lands about 6pm, cruise liners generally depart port of Miami at this time.

In fairness at least this time they have a good product. In 2006 the inaugural DUB-DXB was operated by their 2nd oldest A333 without PTVs.

cson

Tenger wrote: »

None. Their current DUB-MIA is repeating the same mistakes that they did in 2006
-No onward interline/codeshare deal into South America. (Its an AA hub city)
-Flight lands too late for many transfer pax, meaning an additional overnight stay.
Flight lands about 6pm, cruise liners generally depart port of Miami at this time.

In fairness at least this time they have a good product. In 2006 the inaugural DUB-DXB was operated by their 2nd oldest A333 without PTVs.

They're definitely missing a trick in terms of onward travel to the Carribean and Central America. Wonder what the O&D from Miami is like? Would imagine that's highly seasonal dependent on old timers wanting to play golf in Eye-Or-Land during the summer...

alancostello

cson wrote: »

They're definitely missing a trick in terms of onward travel to the Carribean and Central America. Wonder what the O&D from Miami is like? Would imagine that's highly seasonal dependent on old timers wanting to play golf in Eye-Or-Land during the summer...

I'd imagine you'll see a better alignment of schedules once the JV with AA launches and they can provide onward connections/codeshares on the route.

Tenger

alancostello wrote: »

I'd imagine you'll see a better alignment of schedules once the JV with AA launches and they can provide onward connections/codeshares on the route.

The problem is that if the route is currently not doing well EI will pull in favour for a more profitable East Coast city. EI need to deliver 15% RoI to IAG each year.
They have already reduced the schedule from 3pw in 2018 to 2pw Summer 2019.

OU812

Tenger wrote: »

EI need to deliver 15% RoI to IAG each year.

They're retuning far more than that.

x567

cson wrote: »

They're definitely missing a trick in terms of onward travel to the Carribean and Central America.

The late timing does at least allow you to connect through from most caribbean destinations on the way back to Dublin without an overnight stop, but on the way out it's pretty inevitable. It might be better to have it the way it is rather than move earlier and risk missing connections both ways...

sherology

Tel Aviv and Moscow would seem to be good a321lr routes for both leisure, biz, and connection traffic, as DUB has a good onwards route network to the US.

Lapmo_Dancer

x567 wrote: »

The late timing does at least allow you to connect through from most caribbean destinations on the way back to Dublin without an overnight stop, but on the way out it's pretty inevitable. It might be better to have it the way it is rather than move earlier and risk missing connections both ways...

Maybe they feel they can attract more connections from UK/Europe with the later departure time from Dublin

Van.Bosch

sherology wrote: »

Tel Aviv and Moscow would seem to be good a321lr routes for both leisure, biz, and connection traffic, as DUB has a good onwards route network to the US.

Lagos, Cairo and Kiev might also work.

Mokuba

I was on the Miami flight in November and it was perhaps 20% full. I have never seen any transatlantic flight so empty.

Surely say, Las Vegas, would be a more popular route for them?

Noxegon

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Lagos, Cairo and Kiev might also work.

FR have KBP now, and UIA is supposed to launch DUB next year.

Stephen Strange

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Lagos, Cairo and Kiev might also work.

In fairness, ME3 probably have Cairo and Lagos well covered and ET have Lagos covered as well.

Stephen Strange

Mokuba wrote: »

I was on the Miami flight in November and it was perhaps 20% full. I have never seen any transatlantic flight so empty.

Surely say, Las Vegas, would be a more popular route for them?

Not sure about the overall load factor, but the last 2 flights from MIA had over 200 pax each (16th and 21st).

Marcusm

Stephen Strange wrote: »

In fairness, ME3 probably have Cairo and Lagos well covered and ET have Lagos covered as well.

Cairo would be better served in TK. Lagos is generally the price sensitive Nigerian route; Abuja has been much more profitable (fare wise) fir BA ex LHR. Can’t see Lagis being more valuable ex DUB, ie price sensitive passengers irrespective of load factors.

alancostello

Stephen Strange wrote: »

In fairness, ME3 probably have Cairo and Lagos well covered and ET have Lagos covered as well.

DXB or DOH is a long way to go to get to LOS (well over double the distance of flying via London), and to fly ET now would mean having to stop in MAD and ADD on the way let alone it also being nearly double the distance. Plenty of availability via LHR, CDG, AMS, or FRA.

Stephen Strange

alancostello wrote: »

DXB or DOH is a long way to go to get to LOS (well over double the distance of flying via London), and to fly ET now would mean having to stop in MAD and ADD on the way let alone it also being nearly double the distance. Plenty of availability via LHR, CDG, AMS, or FRA.

I had gotten confused. More probably travel TK and ET than via London though. (With many going through CDG as well).

alancostello

Stephen Strange wrote: »

I had gotten confused. More probably travel TK and ET than via London though. (With many going through CDG as well).

For Cairo, sure, but I can't imagine many people adding over 8 hours to their flight to fly to Lagos via DXB

Tenger

OU812 wrote: »

They're retuning far more than that.

Indeed. I think their recent results showed a 26%.
I was just pointing out that 15% is the expctation of IAG

jesus_thats_gre

I would take Cairo. There every 3/4 months these days.

LiamaDelta

Mokuba wrote: »

I was on the Miami flight in November and it was perhaps 20% full. I have never seen any transatlantic flight so empty.

Surely say, Las Vegas, would be a more popular route for them?

I was also on it in November and it was rammed Both J and Y, there were only 4 or 5 empty seats.