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beef price tracker

49801

any interest in having a factory beef price tracker on here?

got 4 hiefers to go, 3rs and 1o

got the following quotes for base price on Mon 23 Jan

4.10e/kg aibp bandon
4.15e/kg aibp cahir

quotes including bord bia
am holding tough as hoping for 4.25e/kg

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Fine Day

locha wrote: »

Anyone hearing of a 5c drop for next week?

God I hope not. Losing money as it is. What price will they be June/July next with all the cattle start coming from the grass when they always pull the price. As always inputs gone to the roof with outputs gone to the floor.

Cavanjack

Haven't heard of a drop but I hear factories are cutting back the kill.

lab man

Prices here in Ennis are shocking today fair sick of this lads round the ring making a killing

Bass Reeves

lab man wrote: »

Prices here in Ennis are shocking today fair sick of this lads round the ring making a killing

How are lads around the ring making a killing

lab man

I saw nice hfrs sold today chx 300 kg sold for 630

jimmy G M

lab man wrote: »

I saw nice hfrs sold today chx 300 kg sold for 630

Were they suckler or dairy bred?

blackdog1

locha wrote:

Anyone hearing of a 5c drop for next week?

Yes and maybe more the following week. Lot of hearsay atm though

kk.man

lab man wrote: »

I saw nice hfrs sold today chx 300 kg sold for 630

Wow that that's some drop, dairy or suckler!

Bass Reeves

lab man wrote: »

I saw nice hfrs sold today chx 300 kg sold for 630

All this winter lads are taking 3.85 of a base for heifers. Those 300kg heifers will in an average year put on another 2-220kgs at grass this year. House them and bring them to 600-620kgs LW. They will kill about 320DW. Lads killing those heifers at the moment are getting about 1270 euro if they are just grading R-/R= t that weight. Even if right good continental yearlings they might kill another 20-30kgs DW at an R+ price they be making 1400 euro.

They would want to be good suckler heifers for the lads buying them to have any margin over one he has just killed

SuperTortoise

Bass Reeves wrote: »

All this winter lads are taking 3.85 of a base for heifers. Those 300kg heifers will in an average year put on another 2-220kgs at grass this year. House them and bring them to 600-620kgs LW. They will kill about 320DW. Lads killing those heifers at the moment are getting about 1270 euro if they are just grading R-/R= t that weight. Even if right good continental yearlings they might kill another 20-30kgs DW at an R+ price they be making 1400 euro.

They would want to be good suckler heifers for the lads buying them to have any margin over one he has just killed

There's no huge margin for the lad finishing the likes of that heifer i'll agree, but there is absolutely no margin for the lad rearing that heifer to 300kgs.

moll3

ya 3.70 and 3.80 for next week

Robson99

moll3 wrote: »

ya 3.70 and 3.80 for next week

Name and shame. Kepak?

moll3

Robson99 wrote: »

Name and shame. Kepak?

larry

Robson99

The whole lot is ****ed. Really screwing the smaller finisher.
They would rather give an extra 50 yo yos on a beast in the Mart than 5 cent in the factory. Thats what's keeping store price up.
Change of plan here for the near future. Will be killing of grass bar a few for xmas.
Catch me once shame on you.... catch me twice shame on me.

Also am beginning to give up on producing QA cattle for them. Buy older cattle and if they take till 35 months so be it. Will still get them on the grid and 10kg extra carcass will cover the QA. Older cattle will put on the weight easier

lab man

jimmy G M wrote:

Were they suckler or dairy bred?

Good sucklers

Muckit

Robson99 wrote: »

The whole lot is ****ed. Really screwing the smaller finisher.
They would rather give an extra 50 yo yos on a beast in the Mart than 5 cent in the factory. Thats what's keeping store price up.
Change of plan here for the near future. Will be killing of grass bar a few for xmas.
Catch me once shame on you.... catch me twice shame on me.

Also am beginning to give up on producing QA cattle for them. Buy older cattle and if they take till 35 months so be it. Will still get them on the grid and 10kg extra carcass will cover the QA. Older cattle will put on the weight easier

Good man

riemann

Robson99 wrote: »

Also am beginning to give up on producing QA cattle for them. Buy older cattle and if they take till 35 months so be it. Will still get them on the grid and 10kg extra carcass will cover the QA. Older cattle will put on the weight easier

I'd think very carefully before you decide to leave the QA scheme.

There is no guarantee you will get the Base Price when producing out of spec cattle, can easily be cut >10c. That's all assuming you can get them killed in the first place as when numbers are high, out of spec cattle are at the back of the queue. When numbers are low you wouldn't have any bother.

It's easy for the usual lads to give you a clap on the back for sticking it to the man, that won't translate to cash in your pocket. QA is possible one of the easiest box ticking exercises there is, most of it is common sense and good practice. The factories use the 30month limit to control demand which is obviously market manipulation, however you deciding to leave the scheme won't solve that particular problem.

Anto_Meath

I can understand peoples frustration with the whole QA thing, I was in the mart last night 3 nice proper AA cattle suckler bred (would guess 2 R,s 1 O) 340Kgs but 4 movements €720. A few minutes later 4 AAx (all Os and possibly 1 P) but 1 owner 320 Kgs and they made €740, I know I would prefer to feed the first 3. Its a poor day that whats on the board mean more than the quality of the cattle in the actual ring.

Bass Reeves

riemann wrote: »

I'd think very carefully before you decide to leave the QA scheme.

There is no guarantee you will get the Base Price when producing out of spec cattle, can easily be cut >10c. That's all assuming you can get them killed in the first place as when numbers are high, out of spec cattle are at the back of the queue. When numbers are low you wouldn't have any bother.

It's easy for the usual lads to give you a clap on the back for sticking it to the man, that won't translate to cash in your pocket. QA is possible one of the easiest box ticking exercises there is, most of it is common sense and good practice. The factories use the 30month limit to control demand which is obviously market manipulation, however you deciding to leave the scheme won't solve that particular problem.

I do not think he is planning on leaving QA scheme. He is just going finishing cattle that will not be getting the QA as they will be over 30 months. He actually seems to be willing to target cattle are are autumn born taht will not be killed until they hit 35 months.

Anto_Meath wrote: »

I can understand peoples frustration with the whole QA thing, I was in the mart last night 3 nice proper AA cattle suckler bred (would guess 2 R,s 1 O) 340Kgs but 4 movements €720. A few minutes later 4 AAx (all Os and possibly 1 P) but 1 owner 320 Kgs and they made €740, I know I would prefer to feed the first 3. Its a poor day that whats on the board mean more than the quality of the cattle in the actual ring.

WTF were these cattle doing with 4 movements and only 340 kgs. I have no sympathy for the owner he bough them at 3 movements. Both lots of cattle were stupid money IMO

Anto_Meath

Bass, that is what you get when you have farmers just farming for entitlements. The second lot were bough by a lad who keeps a lot less cattle than he used to, enough to keep the grass short and will sell them again in October. The first lot were sold by a young lad who is only after taking over the farm and seems to be turning it around from a beef finishing farm to a short stay store enterprise, ie buying little light stock keeping them fora few months and then flipping them on again. The mart trade didn't make sense at all last night, it was very dear for light cattle.

johnnyw20

WTF were these cattle doing with 4 movements and only 340 kgs. I have no sympathy for the owner he bough them at 3 movements. Both lots of cattle were stupid money IMO[/quote]

Prob bought by a dealer as a calf and resold

Then offered as a yearling and bought by a dealer and then resold at the other side of the country!

Bass Reeves

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Bass, that is what you get when you have farmers just farming for entitlements. The second lot were bough by a lad who keeps a lot less cattle than he used to, enough to keep the grass short and will sell them again in October. The first lot were sold by a young lad who is only after taking over the farm and seems to be turning it around from a beef finishing farm to a short stay store enterprise, ie buying little light stock keeping them fora few months and then flipping them on again. The mart trade didn't make sense at all last night, it was very dear for light cattle.

I do not quite agree. It when you have lads not understanding the business they are in. I can understand the second lad if he is only buying limited cattle to draw ANC. However if he is stocking at a fairly mid level he is an idiot.

I have little sympathy for the first lad either if he paid too much for them with no movement left to sell them. There is little enough margin in cattle without lads hauling them around the country and in and out of marts each time they change hands costs 10-40 euro/head

johnnyw20 wrote: »

Prob bought by a dealer as a calf and resold

Then offered as a yearling and bought by a dealer and then resold at the other side of the country!

No they were suckler bred according to Anto. If they were only yearlings this is there 4 move in six months. If they are older 18+ months they are a very poor weight for age as well. Even if they were dairy bred storesthat number of moves at 350kgs is stupid. There is 40 euro in QA gone off there finishing price and another 30-40 in AA bonus but they may be not too salable because of age as well if they are up on 24 months.

When cattle hit the limit on moves only lads willing to finish them should bid on them.

Albert Johnson

johnnyw20 wrote: »

WTF were these cattle doing with 4 movements and only 340 kgs. I have no sympathy for the owner he bough them at 3 movements. Both lots of cattle were stupid money IMO

Prob bought by a dealer as a calf and resold

Then offered as a yearling and bought by a dealer and then resold at the other side of the country![/quote]

The above is a possible cause for the moves but there is other reasons cattle acquire multiple movements other than dealing. For example a calf sold as part of a suckler team could acquire a movement shortly after birth and if put into a BnB setup over winter would be another movement. I've seen cull cows sold locally that have 10-12 movements due to being put into a BnB style wintering system, these cows had been moved between the herd of origin and the BnB herd multiple times over several winters.

I agree that multiple movements mean increased costs and reduced efficiency but dealing or other means of movement aren't exactly a new concept either. Movements are an industry based issue and to attempt to market them as a consumer issue is bull**** imo. The consumer doesn't care if there meat has 3 or 13 moves and it's only another excuse by the processor's to pull the price. In times of scarcity a jack ass could be mixed in through the kill and nothing would be said. QA status is a help to marketing Irish beef but basing it upon an arbitrary figure be it age, movements or residencies is a mistake imo.

lalababa

49801 wrote: »

any interest in having a factory beef price tracker on here?

got 4 hiefers to go, 3rs and 1o

got the following quotes for base price on Mon 23 Jan

4.10e/kg aibp bandon
4.15e/kg aibp cahir

quotes including bord bia
am holding tough as hoping for 4.25e/kg

Yeah somebody put this up a few pages back, this is the 1st post on this thread 7years ago. I looked up what the value of 4.20 euro 10 years ago was today. It is 4.40 today according to the Irish inflation calculator.
3.75 in 2019 was worth 3.58 in 2009.
I was looking up graphs of historical beef prices on the CSO and there's a 30% steady trajectory jump from start 2011 to end of 2012 and then plateaux s on steady? I for the life of me can't recall this jump. What was the reason?

kk.man

lalababa wrote: »

Yeah somebody put this up a few pages back, this is the 1st post on this thread 7years ago. I looked up what the value of 4.20 euro 10 years ago was today. It is 4.40 today according to the Irish inflation calculator.
3.75 in 2019 was worth 3.58 in 2009.
I was looking up graphs of historical beef prices on the CSO and there's a 30% steady trajectory jump from start 2011 to end of 2012 and then plateaux s on steady? I for the life of me can't recall this jump. What was the reason?

There was a shortage of supply in 2012 due to a number of factors. The main ones were we got a massive spring followed by a hungry early summer. Then the London Olympics happened in mid summer I sold Fresian bullocks at 4.27 flat that July the came into 1427 per head. I think the live trade took more cattle out of the country in 2011 that the factories hadn't bargined for.
Oh the glory days..we live for those!

Anto_Meath

Albert I agree with you, QA status should be applied to all cattle coming from a QA herd, yes I agree that it should be only paid for qualifying grades and possibly an age limit of 36 months (30 months was for the BSE scare that was doing the rounds at the time) but I don't agree with the number of movements effecting the QA status of the animal. I have my doubts if factories get it more difficult to sell beef from an animal that moved 5 -6 times than an animal that has moved 3 times.
Bass the animals I was referring to from last nights mart between 9 an 13 months of age.

SuperTortoise

I thought the whole idea of limited movements was to stop the dealer flipping cattle? Going back years ago when i used to go to the marts more often it would'nt be unusual to see the same cow in 3 different marts in the space of a week!

mr.stonewall

SuperTortoise wrote: »

I thought the whole idea of limited movements was to stop the dealer flipping cattle? Going back years ago when i used to go to the marts more often it would'nt be unusual to see the same cow in 3 different marts in the space of a week!

Think there has to be some sort of top up on the QA for cattle that have no movements. Born, raised and finished on the one farm.Surely this is some marketing strenght

Anto_Meath

mr.stonewall wrote: »

Think there has to be some sort of top up on the QA for cattle that have no movements. Born, raised and finished on the one farm.Surely this is some marketing strenght

Yes that would be a good idea, reward the farmer that brings the animal from birth to hook, its a long road and I would agree with giving a bit extra for that, but 1 movement or 6 movements shouldn't make any difference.

Albert Johnson

mr.stonewall wrote: »

Think there has to be some sort of top up on the QA for cattle that have no movements. Born, raised and finished on the one farm.Surely this is some marketing strenght

This would be a marketing strength but not any more than grass fed, GM free, hormone free and so on. There doesn't seem to be much appetite to capitalise on any of the above so why the fixation with movements. The cynic in me believes that movements are just another bargaining chip for the processor and another stick to beat us with.

Take for example farmer A with a bunch of organic traditional bred bullocks that spend the vast majority of there lifetime outdoors in as natural an environment as possible. They have received little concentrates, no hormone's or antibiotics and are the epitome of what Irish grass fed beef should be. However because there over 30 months and have passed through a few too many marts there now ineligible for premium prices.

Farmer B has a bunch of under 16 months continental bulls who've spent most of there life looking out through a barrier at the outside world. They've consumed almost 2 tonnes of concentrates each and could have been produced in any feedlot in the world at almost certainly a more competitive rate. However as they've been on farm since birth and don't know what a mart is there eligible for the going market rate.

Both farmers are indeed entitled to a return on there investment but which image is more in keeping with our so called "green advantage". Lads need to take stock of where beef production is going in this country. I believe that a sustainable and premium product is our only chance of success long-term. Those who want to operate a feedlot and compete at producing the cheapest commodity beef would be better suited to buying a cowboy hat and boarding the next plane to the American wild west imo.