The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Two harsh yellows, second was in front of me, a coming together in MF, nothing nasty.

His black card v Galway was stupid, but this was very harsh.......didnt think his first yellow was a card either, although I was a bit away from it, so I could stand corrected on that one.

Re Mackey....he has to play....he was so much better than anything that started. He has the vision that nobody else has.....there are ways to utilise him better. Football should be much more than running around like a blue arsed fly, and racking up the 10k for stats.
Play him for Clerkin, i cant recall him even touching the ball, and he didnt do a whole lot in terms of tracking back, busting a gut, or turnovers. Play him as a corner forward with a licence to roam, or to play of a FF line of Madden and one of the Lacken boys......im not sure which of them is the FF that kicked the free/mark

I still think Mackey is better utilized as an impact sub with 30 minutes or 25 minutes left. He hasn't the legs for 70 and no point in him going off when you need him most.

Listening to the interviews after the game on We Are Cavan, at least Mickey isn't a bluffer like his predecessor. You can tell how disappointed he is and he says himself the plans didn't carry out the plan.

The one big problem is attitude. We seem to have a soft underbelly. I was at the Meath Kildare game on Sunday and whatever you say about Meath, those lads don't know when they are beat. They won the game by a point with a late penalty, something I just don't see our lads doing.

The Kerry game, for example, there was a sense of the inevitable as they started reeling us in.

It's something Jim McGuinness mentioned in the Sky analysis before the Tyrone game last year.

Lump It In

On a different topic, how good is it to see Oisin Kiernan back to full health and in full training. Really looking forward to seeing him back in action. Was easily the stand out player in the club champ last year before he had to stop.

A win tomorrow would be a fantastic step forward for this Cavan side and a massive blow to Monaghan ahead of the championship encounter. A big challenge. Likely to be very little in it given recent history. Cavan will have to have rectified their free taking and hope for a big performance and a goal from the forward line. Tomorrow should tell a lot as to how this cavan side are shaping up.

Yevon wrote: »

It could be said that we showed the same guts to get a draw against Clare last year, beat Down when things were tight coming down the stretch (league and championship) to beat Tipperary in the last few seconds to get us up to Division 1.

And those three sides are all setting the world alight!! I saw Tipperary against Meath this year and I was surprised with how poor they were.

Interesting point on We Are Cavan that 11 players have started every Cavan game in the League.

So the regulars then are:

Raymond Galligan
Jason McLoughlin
Padraig Faulkner
Killian Clarke
Ciaran Brady
Conor Rehill
Martin Reilly
Dara McVeety
Jack Brady
Conor Madden
Niall Murray

Paul Graham as a twelfth has started every game but the first.

Others who have featured with starts or coming on regularly:
Niall Clerkin
Chris Conroy
Gerry Smith
Conor Moynagh
Cian Mackey
Thomas Galligan
Pearce Smith

Of the list of 12 regulars, I think Jack Brady is the only player at huge risk of dropping out.

You're looking at Gerry Smith, Moynagh as definite starters also IMO so that's back to 13 and then you have Gearoid and Caoimhin and we're probably looking at in or around our starting 15 for the championship.

On a side note, can't see the game going ahead this morning. Play it Monday?

Cavan_King wrote: »

And those three sides are all setting the world alight!! I saw Tipperary against Meath this year and I was surprised with how poor they were.

Interesting point on We Are Cavan that 11 players have started every Cavan game in the League.

So the regulars then are:

Raymond Galligan
Jason McLoughlin
Padraig Faulkner
Killian Clarke
Ciaran Brady
Conor Rehill
Martin Reilly
Dara McVeety
Jack Brady
Conor Madden
Niall Murray

Paul Graham as a twelfth has started every game but the first.

Others who have featured with starts or coming on regularly:
Niall Clerkin
Chris Conroy
Gerry Smith
Conor Moynagh
Cian Mackey
Thomas Galligan
Pearce Smith

Of the list of 12 regulars, I think Jack Brady is the only player at huge risk of dropping out.

You're looking at Gerry Smith, Moynagh as definite starters also IMO so that's back to 13 and then you have Gearoid and Caoimhin and we're probably looking at in or around our starting 15 for the championship.

On a side note, can't see the game going ahead this morning. Play it Monday?

After all last nights rain, there surely will be need for a pitch inspection. Plenty of rivers in flood around this morning.

Following pitch inspection, today’s Allianz Football League game in Clones goes ahead. Throw in is 2.00pm in St Tiernach’s Park.

baconsarnie wrote: »

Following pitch inspection, today’s Allianz Football League game in Clones goes ahead. Throw in is 2.00pm in St Tiernach’s Park.

Almost wish it had been postponed:)

Poor football all round. Conor Moynagh was superb, absolutely top class performance from him. Nice to see Gearoid back. Apart from that, not much to sing about.

I’d be worried about the well-being of those Monaghan lads, Conor Mc Manus especially. Mustn’t be doing any gym work- any rap at all and the poor wee darlings were on the turf!!!

And I know Cavan fans are always giving out about the ref, but he was shocking. Shocking.

baconsarnie wrote: »

Almost wish it had been postponed:)

Poor football all round. Conor Moynagh was superb, absolutely top class performance from him. Nice to see Gearoid back. Apart from that, not much to sing about.

I’d be worried about the well-being of those Monaghan lads, Conor Mc Manus especially. Mustn’t be doing any gym work- any rap at all and the poor wee darlings were on the turf!!!

And I know Cavan fans are always giving out about the ref, but he was shocking. Shocking.

Was it 11 wides we had in the first half? No scoring threat up front. No free taker.

What exactly did the ref give the free out for the time the quick free was taken with Galligan up the pitch? Cost us a score at a vital time.

Cavan_King wrote: »

Was it 11 wides we had in the first half? No scoring threat up front. No free taker.

What exactly did the ref give the free out for the time the quick free was taken with Galligan up the pitch? Cost us a score at a vital time.

In fairness we kicked a score straight after it, but it was a mad decision.

Nearly as bad as him refusing to give Mc Kiernan a mark in the first half- which was well kickable- even though Mc Kiernan was signalling to the ref he was taking the mark.

Coupled with Mc Manus buying about 3 frees (at least) in the first half, it was a poor refereeing display

Yevon wrote: »

So one comeback against Kildare (currently 4th in Division 2) certifies Meath's never say die attitude but Cavan's late results against Clare and Tipperary (when they finished 3rd and 4th in Division 2 last year) prove nothing?

Wonder what time there will be an inspection? Would be nice to know before getting on the road for the game.

Wind your neck in. Stats don’t tell everything. Donegal are currently 3rd in Division Two, does that make them a worse team than Cavan!?

Having been to Cavan games over the past 25 years or so, my own opinion is that Cavan would not have pulled back that game like Meath did.

If you don’t agree, you don’t agree but you’d be hard pressed to find many supporters in the county that say Cavan close out games from winning positions well, let alone pull back a five or six point second half losing margin.

baconsarnie wrote: »

In fairness we kicked a score straight after it, but it was a mad decision.

Nearly as bad as him refusing to give Mc Kiernan a mark in the first half- which was well kickable- even though Mc Kiernan was signalling to the ref he was taking the mark.

Coupled with Mc Manus buying about 3 frees (at least) in the first half, it was a poor refereeing display

And he gave Monaghan a mark from near enough the exact same area but on the opposite side of the field in the second half.

Monaghan were just happy we had no scoring threat in the first half. 11 wides and I dong know how many dropped into the keepers hands.

Division 2 will be tough next year with Fermanagh and Meath maybe going up.

Cavan_King wrote: »

And he gave Monaghan a mark from near enough the exact same area but on the opposite side of the field in the second half.

Monaghan were just happy we had no scoring threat in the first half. 11 wides and I dong know how many dropped into the keepers hands.

Division 2 will be tough next year with Fermanagh and Meath maybe going up.

For a do or die match (for both teams) it was lacking any sort of intensity in the first half. Monaghan only kicked one point from play in the first half and gifted frees.

Defensively we looked pretty solid but as you said, struggled to break Monaghan down. Worse still was two easy frees kicked into Beggan’s hands.

All a bit laboured from Cavan. The likes of Gerry Smith, Mc Veety, Martin Reilly etc never seemed to get going. Not keen on starting Mackey in a game like that- prefer to get 20 mins or so from him at the end.

For such a flat game, Monaghan easily could have had 2 lads red carded along with Mc Carron (who was the pick of the Monaghan players). Mc Manus should have gotten the line for a high challenge on Moynagh right in front of the ref, who bottled it and only booked him instead.

Yevon wrote: »

You can go to Cavan games for 250 years if you want but if you judge Meath as being lads who don't give up based on one game and dismiss 4 instances of Cavan doing the same thing then don't expect anyone to take your point seriously son.

Poor today. Moynagh was excellent. I was actually impressed with Madden, he could turn out to be a decent inside forward. Don't know how Mickey can justify not playing Dara inside. Its madness.

Ref was very poor, Monaghan alternated between diving and hitting dirty shots. The ref bottled at least 2 clear red cards.

Who said I’m judging Meath on one game? I’m referring to one Meath game in particular that I attended recently. There are plenty of examples of Meath pulling back games they should have lost over the years, ask any Westmeath supporter.

Tbh I’m a positive Cavan supporter and you seem to be honing in on one thing I’ve said to try and twist it negatively. Derry in 15, Tipp in 17 - examples of games we should have closed out and won and didn’t.

Watch the Sky analysis off the Tyrone game last year. I’d think Jim McGuinness and James Horan know a bit about football and they both commented greatly on Cavan’s attitude and lack of leadership in tight games.

Anyway, at least we can all agree on the referee today but, let’s be fair, he was poor for both teams and the ref wasn’t the deciding factor in that loss. We just hadn’t the quality up front.

baconsarnie wrote: »

In fairness we kicked a score straight after it, but it was a mad decision.

Nearly as bad as him refusing to give Mc Kiernan a mark in the first half- which was well kickable- even though Mc Kiernan was signalling to the ref he was taking the mark.

Coupled with Mc Manus buying about 3 frees (at least) in the first half, it was a poor refereeing display

Ball wasn't kicked from outside 40?

But the ref was shocking. Awful for both teams.

Yevon wrote: »

What was the issue with Mackey taking the quick free to Galligan?

Really thought Mickey would have a better plan going forward. We never had enough players ahead of the ball or supporting the man in possession. Our free taking is also surely one of the worst in the country.

Realistically this is the worst we've looked since 2015. Really hope we can avoid a hammering against Dublin and go into the Championship with a proper plan on how to get enough scores and surprise Monaghan.

I dunno. I presume the referee was penalizing them for taking it when he hadn’t blown the whistle and gave the free out for the ball being kicked away.

I think a chance was taken on a few lads today and it didn’t work out. Pearce Smith doesn’t look ready for senior level. Niall McKiernan also looked out of place.

I think the half back line should be Moynagh, Smith & Rehill. Clarke in the full back line with Faulkner & McLoughlin. Graham and Galligan midfield. That would leave a forward line of McVeety, Reilly, Murray, Madden, Reilly & McKiernan when all are fit.

McVeety is needed in the forwards and with Madden, Reilly & McKiernan should provide a scoring threat.

If Clarke is needed at midfield, I’d be looking to Killian Brady.

Cavan_King wrote: »

I dunno. I presume the referee was penalizing them for taking it when he hadn’t blown the whistle and gave the free out for the ball being kicked away.

I think a chance was taken on a few lads today and it didn’t work out. Pearce Smith doesn’t look ready for senior level. Niall McKiernan also looked out of place.

I think the half back line should be Moynagh, Smith & Rehill. Clarke in the full back line with Faulkner & McLoughlin. Graham and Galligan midfield. That would leave a forward line of McVeety, Reilly, Murray, Madden, Reilly & McKiernan when all are fit.

McVeety is needed in the forwards and with Madden, Reilly & McKiernan should provide a scoring threat.

If Clarke is needed at midfield, I’d be looking to Killian Brady.

If free took too quick it's a retake or at least a throw up. He gave a free out. Bizarre.

tayto lover

I’m out of the country lads. Who was the referee today as Cavan seem to get little from any of them?

tayto lover wrote: »

I’m out of the country lads. Who was the referee today as Cavan seem to get little from any of them?

Brendan Crowley Kildare. We got some strange calls too. Easily worst inter county referee I've ever say. Was always 40 yards ahead of the ball.

Thunderbirds wrote: »

Brendan Crowley Kildare. We got some strange calls too. Easily worst inter county referee I've ever say. Was always 40 yards ahead of the ball.

He’s one of those “look at me” refs that I can stand. Coupled with his decision-making, I think that was as bad as I’ve seen at inter county level.

When was the Mc Manus challenge on Moynagh? There wasn’t more than a point or two in it at that stage, so it would have made it very interesting.

Big call made there would have made a drastic difference in the game and was exactly the bit of luck we needed.

Ah well...

Credit to those who had the pitch in Clones in such good shape given all the rain the previous night. The game itself was quite poor in standard and it is doubtful the neutral would have thought much of it. Monaghan upped their game after half time and introduced a few subs who made an impact. A lot of poor errors on both sides throughout. Cavan’s failure to address free taking over the course of this league campaign has been a worrying issue and would not suffice, even in the lower divisions. Lots of players looking around at each other trying to decide who or what..... The value of a free taking plan like Kerry or Monaghan have now with Beggan or O’Shea sets them apart. Disappointing to see several frees being brought forward for disputing with the referee. After the opening exchanges it was obvious that frees would be given very very softly and Cavan failed to account for this and Monaghan took full advantage. A lot of work required yet to prepare for May’s fixture.

Galligan should take all frees. His first free is always 40 plus yards away. Let him take the few handy ones and get the confidence up.

Yevon wrote: »

Two positives from yesterday that deserve a bit more attention are the performances from Madden and Moynagh.

I really thought after two years ago when McGleenan was taking Madden off early in the first half of games and in general barely giving him a chance that he would fall away from the panel disillusioned and he did fall off for championship that year. But he's stuck at it and shown remarkable improvement this year. That sort of perseverance is commendablel. Yesterday he consistently wanted the ball, he showed, he moved and didn't shy away even when he wasn't troubling the scoreboard. I think we should stick with him and if he can show the same level of improvement in the next year and back himself for a shot a bit more then he will be a handful.

Moynagh looked like the leader on the field yesterday and the one man to really throw himself about. He's cut out a lot of the hail mary shots and he looks fitter and faster than I've seen him before. Took two brilliant marks yesterday and busted a gut to get into space for kickouts. If we got the same level of effort and willingness to get stuck in from Gerry Smith (avoids contact at all costs), Rehill and McVeety I think we would have been much more effective yesterday.

Madden has been our best forward in both the McKenna Cup and the League. I don't think anyone is even contemplating not sticking with him. He scored a great point Saturday in the first half where nothing was on so he ran at them at an angle and popped it over.

The thing about Madden is though that this is at least his third year on the panel. Its interesting to see that he's taken that time to grow into it (being shoddily treated by McGleenan aside), but it does come back to Mickey Graham saying it takes 18 to 24 months to condition a player.

Moynagh has also had a few years of experience now and he was head and shoulders above the others yesterday in terms of commitment and aggression. That said, you've named three lads there and one is only in his second season at intercounty, with a year's break in between, and the other is in his first.

McVeety is the only one that is experienced. I'd be looking for more from the more experienced players like Ciaran Brady, whose form has dipped since the start of the league, Clarke, Martin Reilly and even Mackey.

We had nobody yesterday except Moynagh that attempted to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and put a stamp on it. Lads too busy back chatting to a ref who it was quite clear was an eejit of the highest degree.

One thing Monaghan seemed to do was run off the shoulder more than us. Its very hard to stop a man taking a hand pass running at you at speed and its definitely something we need to work on. All too often we were finding ourselves being pushed out towards the wings and tough scoring angles. That said, even the Monaghan supporters seemed to know we'd no top class forward or even free taker so I'd imagine that was a tactic.

Thunderbirds wrote: »

Galligan should take all frees. His first free is always 40 plus yards away. Let him take the few handy ones and get the confidence up.

If you saw some of his free taking in the senior club championship for Lacken last year, you'd believe an alternative was needed. Don't get me wrong, fantastic free taker on occasion but he's not going to score 80% plus which is what you need at this level. He's more a 60 per cent man.

At this stage its looking like Mickey needs to look at free takers in the county and carrying a player even just to take frees.

Some of the free taking on Saturday was ridiculous. The first free Mackey took I knew there was no way out of his hands that he'd have the range for it before he even kicked it.

rrs

Another defeat to Monaghan in championship would be unbearable. It's a huge game for Mickey Graham and the team..

Crash Bang Wall

Referee was shocking......absolutely shocking......the mark he didnt give to Mckiernan in the first half, the tackle on Moynagh from McManus that was definitely a red. Even McManus blatant shove on Faulkner to win a ball, when Faulkner got in front of him, and they score. Pulling up Galligan and Mackey for taking a quick free, when almost every short free went 6 or 7 yards, instead of the permitted 13. Ignoring the red card, there is the 3 point swing

In terms of way of playing, the ambition of trying to play with 4 up in the first half. Man on man, our defence pulled by the ref on everything, yet when Monaghan get 4 around a fella, pull and drag, its somehow a free out for overcarrying, or a turnover

As for Monaghan, the lying down, the 15 inside their 45 for most of the second half is horrible to watch, and not the way the game should be played.....I just wish we had the players with the class to be able to play through it.

Yevon wrote: »

Clarke's comments in the Irish News... Christ. Blaming the young lads and inexperience. This is his 7th season playing Senior football. He had 1 great game and ranged from average to awful for the rest. The error rate was still extremely high among our senior players, Killian included who seems to not be bothered even attempting to tackle properly anymore.

It's a real insight into the lack of leadership evident in Cavan.

Have a listen to the We Are Cavan Patreon podcast this week. Looks like the lads are on my side re Cavan having a soft underbelly and being an easy team to play.

I was amazed you even asked me to go back over games where Cavan coughed up winning positions if you’re attending matches. I could go as far back as Armagh in 2004. I know an Armagh man who left that day because he was sure they’d lose.

Who posted the picture on social media of some of the team out all smiles after the Monaghan game?

Crash Bang Wall

Cavan_King wrote: »

Have a listen to the We Are Cavan Patreon podcast this week. Looks like the lads are on my side re Cavan having a soft underbelly and being an easy team to play.

I was amazed you even asked me to go back over games where Cavan coughed up winning positions if you’re attending matches. I could go as far back as Armagh in 2004. I know an Armagh man who left that day because he was sure they’d lose.

Who posted the picture on social media of some of the team out all smiles after the Monaghan game?

I didnt think they went far enough on the referee to be honest. He royally shafted us.

As for Clarke, he mentioned smarts.......he got a black, and a red in 6 matches.....I believe, in 7 years at intercounty level, he has a lack of smarts......his black v Galway was so stupid, he was out of the game, and the player he bodychecked actually wasnt looking to get involved in the play (which went on, and Galway got a score before he pulled it back to give the card)

The social media pic, I believe was last years captain, but im not 100% sure on that

Yevon wrote: »

Two things worth noting on this;

1. Just because Paul and Damien say something don't make it so. Paul said after we beat Galway in 2016 "is there a better footballer in the country than Killian Clarke? There might be players as good but is there anyone better?" You might want to think twice before making their word gospel.

2. You said about Meath "those lads don't know when they are beat" based on one league game which I correctly pointed out as bull**** given that Cavan have had similar comebacks in the last year alone. I never argued that Cavan were a team that closed out tight games, I used Cavan as the comparison to highlight your faulty logic. That obviously went over your head.

1. Nobody made their word gospel but its obvious to any supporter that Cavan don't close out games, let alone bounce back in games we are losing.

2. I think my initial point went over your head. Kildare are currently ranked 8th in the country according to the rankings on here. Meath came back from six points behind against a team ranked above them, a top ten team. You point to Cavan beating Clare & Tipp (both near relegation to Division 2 this year) and Down (who were relegated to Division 3). I don't think you'll find a man in the county either who won't admit we were very lucky with the sending off in the Tipp game. I'll put it like this, when was the last time Cavan beat a team you would see as better than them? If anything, we have thrown away strong leads against teams like Derry & Tipp who we should have been beating.

Yevon wrote: »

We beat Roscommon on the 24th of February. Also interesting that a few posts ago you said "stats don't tell everything" but now you're referring to a statistical ranking system in your argument.

You're still not getting the point, I'll try dull it down a shade: I am NOT arguing that Cavan close out tight games.

My issue is with your point about Meath, can you back up your point a little more about how they don't give up? Or did you misspeak and you meant that they didn't give up in that particular game? No point in all this back and forth if it's based on an error you made when posting...

Despite the recent record, I wouldn’t see Roscommon as being any better than Cavan. We’ve just under performed against them.

I already reiterated the point, or dulled it down if you prefer that terminology...

“Having been to Cavan games over the past 25 years or so, my own opinion is that Cavan would not have pulled back that game like Meath did”.

I then went further again...

“Who said I’m judging Meath on one game? I’m referring to one Meath game in particular that I attended recently. There are plenty of examples of Meath pulling back games they should have lost over the years, ask any Westmeath supporter.”

Meath are a lesser team than Cavan IMO but took Tyrone to extra time last year. Meath were reaching All Ireland semi finals in the noughties with weak teams.

Bottom line is they’re a county who generally play above themselves. Our lads seem to do the opposite.

Now I patiently await your next passive aggressive post where you can wax lyrical about our excellent wins in recent years against Offaly & Wicklow in the qualifiers

Yevon wrote: »

I'm going to ignore the many, many other inconsistencies in your post and focus on this bit.

Roscommon have beaten Cavan in almost every game we have played them in the last 5 years. We managed a draw and a victory in a dead rubber prior to this year. They have won a Connacht title, survived in Division 1 and reached the Super 8s in that time.

By what measure could you possibly place Cavan ahead of Roscommon? I'm guessing your answer is that you see our players as being as good as Roscommon's? Or that you believe if we perform we are as good as Roscommon?

And if so, we have reached the crux of the problem...

Ahem....

Cavan_King wrote: »

Despite the recent record, I wouldn’t see Roscommon as being any better than Cavan. We’ve just under performed against them.

Comprehension really isn’t your forte young Sweeney. Where did I place Cavan ahead of Roscommon? Saying you wouldn’t see a team as “any better” doesn’t mean you place one ahead of the other. It means the teams are equal. .

You also continue to ask “By what measure could you possibly place Cavan ahead of Roscommon? I'm guessing your answer is that you see our players as being as good as Roscommon's? Or that you believe if we perform we are as good as Roscommon?“ when I’ve already answered that above by stating I believe Cavan have under performed against them.

Not much point continuing this when you can’t grasp the basic English of points and continue to query questions already addressed.

Go and have a pint and get rid of that pent up passive aggressiveness “son”.