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The Luas: Badly designed?

magic_murph

Do you think there are design flaws with the luas and the signaling systems etc considering the amount of accident and actual deaths that have been linked with it.

Some incidents are definitely as a result of people running red lights etc but not all can be classed this way.

I wonder how much of a review takes places after each of the incidents

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[Deleted User]

sabat wrote: »

No need for the sarcasm. On an overcast (ie almost every) day the trams do tend to merge into the background, particularly around O'Connell St where a lot of the buildings are grey.

And the big yellow stripe?

sabat

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is this a joke?

It's covered in a big yellow stripe. It's big, it's shiny in parts, and it runs along the same track every day, just a few minutes apart.

And you want it repainted? Maybe if drivers would just put their phones down and stop breaking red lights, then they'd stop crashing.

Do we need to paint all houses in hi-vis too now, to make it easy for drivers to avoid them?

No need for the sarcasm. On an overcast (ie almost every) day the trams do tend to merge into the background, particularly around O'Connell St where a lot of the buildings are grey.

[Deleted User]

AMKC wrote: »

It hardly have been any worse than digging up all the roads it was going along. I think it could have worked out cheaper and its not like it would have had to be that high only about 10 feet up or so not 160 feet up like say a 20 story building.

Cheaper? I'd love to see your calculations to show how building an additional platform above all the roads would have saved money. What costs would be reduced by this approach?

whisky_galore

AMKC wrote: »

It hardly have been any worse than digging up all the roads it was going along. I think it could have worked out cheaper and its not like it would have had to be that high only about 10 feet up or so not 160 feet up like say a 20 story building.

The digging is all done now, that's a non argument.
The people pissing and moaning about all the "digging up our roads" are fairly quiet now that their property values have gone up along the route.

antoinolachtnai

The shading effect (cutting off light) on relatively narrow streets (even Abbey Street would be very great. The stations would end up boxing in whole sections of the street when you'd be done putting in elevators and lifts.

salmocab

AMKC wrote: »

It hardly have been any worse than digging up all the roads it was going along. I think it could have worked out cheaper and its not like it would have had to be that high only about 10 feet up or so not 160 feet up like say a 20 story building.

10feet? That wouldn’t let a bus under. It would be a massive eyesore that would never have got through planning

AMKC

astrofool wrote: »

I think a Luas on stilts would fall afoul of our building height restrictions! (I'd imagine the main reason it wasn't done is the cost)

It hardly have been any worse than digging up all the roads it was going along. I think it could have worked out cheaper and its not like it would have had to be that high only about 10 feet up or so not 160 feet up like say a 20 story building.

astrofool

AMKC wrote: »

It was designed and done wrong from the start. It should have been put up of stilts like the metro system in Sydney for instance. That way it would not have taken up the road space that it did and that could have still been used too so the traffic in the city would have been reduced as some people that drove in would now be able to use the trams that go along on tracks built up high over the roads not on them and there would not have to have been as many changes to traffic into the city so the vehicles would move along better now with less vehicles on it. But no they said it would be anti-social lol as if anyone getting on the Luas these day are social anyway with there eyes and ears addicted to there devices.

I think a Luas on stilts would fall afoul of our building height restrictions! (I'd imagine the main reason it wasn't done is the cost)

Manic Moran

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Maybe we need more hi-vis on the bridges too? Let's just hi-vis everything, just to make certain that drivers don't have to actually pay attention to their driving.

https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/1106552162702815232?s=19

look up 11 foot 8. They come complete with flashing lights if your truck is too high to fit under the bridge. They've filmed over 140 crashes on that bridge. http://11foot8.com/

rossie1977

They have almost identical system in Nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlLXMaldlwk

AMKC

It was designed and done wrong from the start. It should have been put up of stilts like the metro system in Sydney for instance. That way it would not have taken up the road space that it did and that could have still been used too so the traffic in the city would have been reduced as some people that drove in would now be able to use the trams that go along on tracks built up high over the roads not on them and there would not have to have been as many changes to traffic into the city so the vehicles would move along better now with less vehicles on it. But no they said it would be anti-social lol as if anyone getting on the Luas these day are social anyway with there eyes and ears addicted to there devices.

punisher5112

Unfortunately there is no cure for stupid.

iamwhoiam

kylith wrote: »

New risks? Like 'don't walk out in front of vehicles'? I'd have thought that was a fairly basic concept that anyone born outside of rural Mongolia would have come across.

I think even in rural Mongolia they would know to step aside if a horse came galloping by

kylith

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You can say the Luas wasn't responsible for these other incidents in some legal sense, but the system certainly did result in new risks to road-users.

New risks? Like 'don't walk out in front of vehicles'? I'd have thought that was a fairly basic concept that anyone born outside of rural Mongolia would have come across.

[Deleted User]

Maybe we need more hi-vis on the bridges too? Let's just hi-vis everything, just to make certain that drivers don't have to actually pay attention to their driving.

https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/1106552162702815232?s=19

H3llR4iser

OneArt wrote: »

For years, I've lived in cities that are well-connected with many tram lines. Thankfully, have never actually seen someone get run over. But I've seen plenty of near misses with people and cars.

Was going to say this - tram lines work almost exactly in the same way more or less everywhere (sure, there ARE cities where they're segregated and classified as "light railways"), I don't see why Dublin has to somehow be the exception where it "can't work". Sounds to me like the same silly opposition to building apartments I keep hearing.

OneArt wrote: »

In all cases, it's the f*cking IDIOTS who have no idea how to conduct themselves in traffic.

[cut]

2.) Bunch of people waiting to cross. Pedestrian light is taking too long to turn green (it's Germany, so people tend to obey them a bit more...) people are hit with a sudden surge of impatience just as the tram is inches away. They run across the track like headless f*cking chickens and the driver has to honk the horn and break suddenly. They basically just run out in front of him. Morons.

[cut]

Yeah this - you can hardly fault the tram line design for people being stupider than farm animals.

Something like this happened to be a few years ago in Cork, on the quay at the junction between Pana and Patrick's hill. I was stopped at the red light, people crossing; The little man turns red, people stop but I spot this moronic arsehole of an hippie, wearing gigantic noise canceling headphones, walking down at a pace towards the light - as my light turns green, he just crosses without even looking...and everyone follows behind.

ghostdancer

as with most things, idiot people are the problem.

also, like in other countries, the sooner we start putting cameras overlooking yellow boxes and fining vehicles that stop in them and cause Luas delays, the better.

OneArt

For years, I've lived in cities that are well-connected with many tram lines. Thankfully, have never actually seen someone get run over. But I've seen plenty of near misses with people and cars.

In all cases, it's the f*cking IDIOTS who have no idea how to conduct themselves in traffic.

1.) Tram line (right in front of the stop), bells ringing as the tram approaches and the pedestrian cross light has just turned red. There's a woman standing RIGHT BETWEEN the tracks (no headphones in), fiddling on her phone. The tram got so close the driver had to honk the horn and scares the sh!t out of her. She leaps forward and the tram just about misses slicing her foot off.

2.) Bunch of people waiting to cross. Pedestrian light is taking too long to turn green (it's Germany, so people tend to obey them a bit more...) people are hit with a sudden surge of impatience just as the tram is inches away. They run across the track like headless f*cking chickens and the driver has to honk the horn and break suddenly. They basically just run out in front of him. Morons.

3.) Traffic lights for cars turn green. One car stops completely on the tram lines, your man just sitting there scratching his balls or whatever. Tram pulls away from the station, starts ringing its bells really loudly. Car ignores it until its really close, then bombs away and nearly knocks a pedestrian off the footpath.

No, trams/trains are not badly designed. In fact, they're the safest form of public transport. Sure, they have accidents but cars have more fatalities. You can easily avoid it by NOT WALKING ON THE DAMN RAIL LINES which is easy to do. Especially in a city like Dublin where there aren't many to begin with.

There's talk of banning cars from Cologne city center which I'd definitely support. It would make it more cyclist friendly too and easier to get around. Driving through the center of any busy city is a pain in the arse anyway. It's usually much faster to cycle or get a tram (not a buses though).

Keyzer

We've had the Luas for over a decade - everyone knows about it, knows where the tracks are and most people know what a tram/train looks like.

Its not the Luas's fault certain pedestrians are idiots or certain drivers don't give a toss about obeying the rules of the road.

andekwarhola

By its nature, it has to navigate through urban areas with other traffic and pedestrians. I think a certain level of accidents are inevitable and nearly all can't really be pinned on the luas trams. They're running on fixed tracks with clearly defined junctions. I commuted on the luas for years and the and witnessed first hand the amount of wanker behaviour from pedestrians and especially cars at junctions.

Alf Veedersane

Hmmm. Definitely time for a complete overhaul of LUAS design.

[Deleted User]

davidk1394 wrote: »

I think if they painted it red or a luminous color so it would stand out other than grey.
Also people walking across in front of the Luas with headphones in or on their phone is modern day Darwinism and natural selection at its finest.
People are stuck to them and I guarantee you if they reviewed the cause of each incident a person on their phone or with headphones in is top of the list

Is this a joke?

It's covered in a big yellow stripe. It's big, it's shiny in parts, and it runs along the same track every day, just a few minutes apart.

And you want it repainted? Maybe if drivers would just put their phones down and stop breaking red lights, then they'd stop crashing.

Do we need to paint all houses in hi-vis too now, to make it easy for drivers to avoid them?

https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/1106246238863851520

supersaint3

iamwhoiam wrote: »

They could use magic paint and have it drive through a car wash and change colours as it crosses town

My little lad has a jumper and if you rub the picture on it one way it's Darth Vader and the other way it's a stormtrooper....

Outlaw Pete

You'd be quicker walking than getting the Luas in many areas. Grand for certain parts of Dublin where it can pick up some speed but they made a mess off locating the stops in or around the city centre.

Nobody is going to walk from Henry St to Malbrough St, Dominick or Parnelll to get the Luas towards Grafton St, they'll just walk up instead and it's the same in the other direction. If you're around Grafton St are you going to walk over to Dawson or around the side of Trinity to get the Luas to O'Connell St? Nah, you'll just walk down as sure it's nearly as far.

They should have made it more user friendly and convenient to jump on and off by like the trams are in San Franciscooooo. Abbey St and Jervis were good locations though, so I guess it's just the Green Line city centre stops I think they dropped the ball on.

Anyway, with regards to safety, the stats ain't so bad.

iamwhoiam

salmocab wrote: »

You know that would mean having to repaint every tram every time it crosses the city from green to your yellow

They could use magic paint and have it drive through a car wash and change colours as it crosses town

Manic Moran

There is nothing as easy to avoid getting run over by as a large vehicle which weighs scores of tons, and does not approach from unexpected directions on unexpected paths. If you can't see the rail lines under your feet, you're probably not going to notice a yellow vehicle 60 feet away and closing.

salmocab

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Paint them the colour of the line
I don't know why the line out to cabra wasn't called the yellow line etc
It's a completely different part of the city

You know that would mean having to repaint every tram every time it crosses the city from green to your yellow

Sheeps

The green line was designed to be upgraded to a metro system, with wider reinforced tracks, but then NIMBYism happened.

nice_guy80

jrmb wrote: »

I saw a tram painted yellow the other day as part of an advertising campaign. It was very visible but actually looked tidy and quite sharp. In Berlin all of the public transport vehicles are painted a similar colour and they look perfectly elegant. It could be a good idea for Dublin.

Paint them the colour of the line
I don't know why the line out to cabra wasn't called the yellow line etc
It's a completely different part of the city

jrmb

I saw a tram painted yellow the other day as part of an advertising campaign. It was very visible but actually looked tidy and quite sharp. In Berlin all of the public transport vehicles are painted a similar colour and they look perfectly elegant. It could be a good idea for Dublin.