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Child Item

Gardaí contact Louth family after Irish woman is detained in Syria

biko

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0309/1035297-syria/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/irish-soldier-isis-syria-islamic-state-children-mother-a8815396.html

Another western convert turns out to get Islam all wrong and gets radicalised...

Gardaí say they are aware of a female member of the Defence Forces who became radicalised and travelled to Syria but there has been no contact with her since.

Lisa Smyth served as a private in the Defence Forces before transferring to the Air Corps

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[Deleted User]

I'm not a fan of the "She's our citizen." thing.. They created their own new country, which is about to disappear.

Imo, let her be a refugee. It's like playing life with cheat codes to go try set up a brutal caliphate, with a country like Ireland as your respawn point.

goat2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is there any suggestion that she was groomed? She had spent nearly 10 years in the defence forces before she converted. She wasn't a child.

I don't think she was groomed, she is supposed to have fallen in love with an isis member, love has no bounds, has his child, and he is now dead, she is alone with child,
I think she should be brought back asap with child and face justice if she has done anything wrong, I am sure her family will be able to help her and her child.
We should send back anyone that break the law here to the place of their birth also, Whether they became a citizen or not, and take their Irish Citizenship

0ph0rce0

Bet you if it was someone in the ra they'd be left there. ISIS though that's grand.

[Deleted User]

Grayson wrote: »

The poster I was replying to said islam. Not any of the strict versions, just islam. And they said anyone who converts should be reported. That is bizarre. So by bring up wahhabism you're shifting the goalposts.

Also Wahhabist are Sunni. Or at least they generally consider themselves Sunni. So when you say Sunni is ok, you're including Wahhabism. That's a minor thing though.

I do believe that anyone following any religion, especially one who converts as an adult is missing a few screws. And especially when someone converts to a stricter/more extreme version. So if someone converts to a strict christian sect or jewish or muslim sect, it's a bit stranger.

But no, I don't think they should be reported just for converting. If someone suspects grooming, they should report that. If they suspect the new convert is violent or holds violent thought, report that.

(As a side note, what is considered grooming when it comes to religion. If it's trying to convince someone to join your faith, then aren't all religions guilty of that to some extent?)

I already edited my post after looking up those differences in Islam. I've just been going on basic knowledge for ages.

And reporting isn't being arrested. The person may never know, but the police could spot some trend in an area. If someone starts coming out with very anti-Western thoughts and have a more fundamentalist view of Islam, it's likely they were groomed.

As to your last point, I'd say there's a difference. Grooming implies taking advantage of someone. For this woman if she were groomed, it was probably her role in the armed forces that was the weak link that led her down the path.

AllForIt

If Leo is right that we should take her back, still, does he have to use the term 'compassionate'. If it's what we're are bound to do then compassion has noting to do with it. I don't get this tone of sympathy in relation to crimes which arguably are the worst kind of crimes because either they are potentially responsible for a huge number of deaths (what could be worse than that?) or they have aided and abetted ppl that have, making them an accessory to mass murder. I don't think I'm being cynical when I suspect that the reason for this is that no one wants to be seen to be coming down too hard on something that is related to Muslims and Islam for fear of being called Islamaohobic. As in the Begum case I think it's crazy to publicly call for compassion when current or potential Islamists can see that if things go belly up for then they may feel that the consequences of being apprehended may not be too bad for them therefore they may feel less deterred than they might.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

I already edited my post after looking up those differences in Islam. I've just been going on basic knowledge for ages.

And reporting isn't being arrested. The person may never know, but the police could spot some trend in an area. If someone starts coming out with very anti-Western thoughts and have a more fundamentalist view of Islam, it's likely they were groomed.

As to your last point, I'd say there's a difference. Grooming implies taking advantage of someone. For this woman if she were groomed, it was probably her role in the armed forces that was the weak link that led her down the path.

I'll bite. What?????

ohnonotgmail

AllForIt wrote: »

If Leo is right that we should take her back, still, does he have to use the term 'compassionate'. If it's what we're are bound to do then compassion has noting to do with it. I don't get this tone of sympathy in relation to crimes which arguably are the worst kind of crimes because either they are potentially responsible for a huge number of deaths (what could be worse than that?) or they have aided and abetted ppl that have, making them an accessory to mass murder. I don't think I'm being cynical when I suspect that the reason for this is that no one wants to be seen to be coming down too hard on something that is related to Muslims and Islam for fear of being called Islamaohobic. As in the Begum case I think it's crazy to publicly call for compassion when current or potential Islamists can see that if things go belly up for then they may feel that the consequences of being apprehended may not be too bad for them therefore they may feel less deterred than they might.

What crimes has this woman committed?

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I'll bite. What?????

"Look at what armies have done to the Middle East.. Don't you feel any guilt over that, what you've done?" spread out over weeks or months whilst falling in love with the guy.

This is just conjecture. From knowing literally one thing about the woman, I said that could be the weak link. Gnaw at that bone. That's grooming.

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

I already edited my post after looking up those differences in Islam. I've just been going on basic knowledge for ages.

And reporting isn't being arrested. The person may never know, but the police could spot some trend in an area. If someone starts coming out with very anti-Western thoughts and have a more fundamentalist view of Islam, it's likely they were groomed.

As to your last point, I'd say there's a difference. Grooming implies taking advantage of someone. For this woman if she were groomed, it was probably her role in the armed forces that was the weak link that led her down the path.

There's definitely a grey area in the whole grooming thing. I'd say scientology do it a lot. What they do is almost like a type of mental abuse. And I'm sure other religions do it too. Most probably think they're helping. They see someone who's a bit lost and think "They need my god in their life" Because one of the things that nearly every religion has is the belief that they, and only they, know the truth and that truth will set you free.

Richard Hillman

Varadkar has been getting cosy with Clonskeagh mosque recently. He has paid the mosque a few visits over the last year or so. Whilst himself and his predecessor have generally rejected most things that come from the moderate imam from the Blanchardstown mosque.

You do have to wonder if there are secret motives in the background.

smartyfarts

i do not believe we should let her back into the country. her primary objective joining isis is to hurt others. she is a terrorist. her human rights went out the window when she chose of her own free will to join a terrorist organisation. I don't want my taxes wasted on housing a terrorist for the sake of "compassion". my security and safety should be before hers

[Deleted User]

Grayson wrote: »

There's definitely a grey area in the whole grooming thing. I'd say scientology do it a lot. What they do is almost like a type of mental abuse. And I'm sure other religions do it too. Most probably think they're helping. They see someone who's a bit lost and think "They need my god in their life" Because one of the things that nearly every religion has is the belief that they, and only they, know the truth and that truth will set you free.

Scientology is its own beast, past that initial taking advantage of people stage. Auditing, and what the secrets they get from you, is used to keep people in. Along with advancing to the next level and getting closer to Theta or whatever it's called.

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

I already edited my post after looking up those differences in Islam. I've just been going on basic knowledge for ages.

I'd recommend reading Karen Armstrong. She's a former nun who writes simple to read books about different religions.

Because I spent some time in the middle east as a child I've always had an interest in all things middle eastern, including religion. But most people in Ireland don't have that much knowledge. In school here religion consisted of catholicism and the only time we learned about other religions, it was what the differences between catholicism and protestantism is. I understand it's different now, but still there's a lot of people who never got educated about the basics of other religions.

I'm trying to learn about buddhism now. I've read Buddas teachings but it's shameful how little I know about how it's practiced. It's like reading the bible gives you no insight into catholicism or even christianity. So if any of you guys can recommend any good books, let me know

Franz Von Peppercorn

smartyfarts wrote: »

i do not believe we should let her back into the country. her primary objective joining isis is to hurt others. she is a terrorist. her human rights went out the window when she chose of her own free will to join a terrorist organisation. I don't want my taxes wasted on housing a terrorist for the sake of "compassion". my security and safety should be before hers

What about the human rights of the Syrians who don’t want her?

jmayo

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Varadkar has been getting cosy with Clonskeagh mosque recently. He has paid the mosque a few visits over the last year or so. Whilst himself and his predecessor have generally rejected most things that come from the moderate imam from the Blanchardstown mosque.

You do have to wonder if there are secret motives in the background.

How high is the minaret in Clonskeagh and can a person climb up there I wonder ?

Old daddy Halawa must be near wretching everytime he has to let a gay kafir, especially one of a catholic hindu background, in the joint.

Odhinn

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Varadkar has been getting cosy with Clonskeagh mosque recently. He has paid the mosque a few visits over the last year or so. Whilst himself and his predecessor have generally rejected most things that come from the moderate imam from the Blanchardstown mosque.

You do have to wonder if there are secret motives in the background.

They make nicer tea in Clonskeagh?

smartyfarts

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What about the human rights of the Syrians who don’t want her?

She's their problem now. Put her in prison there and let her rot

Wheres Me Jumper?

smartyfarts wrote: »

She's their problem now. Put her in prison there and let her rot

i disagree.
this is an excellent opportunity to discover more how people are radicalized and end-up doing such crazy stuff.

bring her home, interrogate/debrief her to the Nth for the next 5 years if necessary.

if after that, she jumps or falls under the No. 46A who cares?

Wheres Me Jumper?

On Joe Duffy right now! (discussion not her)

smartyfarts

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i disagree.
this is an excellent opportunity to discover more how people are radicalized and end-up doing such crazy stuff.

bring her home, interrogate/debrief her to the Nth for the next 5 years if necessary.

if after that, she jumps or falls under the No. 46A who cares?

she might blow herself up on it too though. that's the worry

Wheres Me Jumper?

smartyfarts wrote: »

she might blow herself up on it too though. that's the worry

well i would be in favour of keeping her inside for as long as necessary until she is deprogrammed.
she shouldn't be allowed back into society if she presents a threat of any kind.

Reati

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Along with advancing to the next level and getting closer to Theta or whatever it's called.

Clear first. Operating thetan after clear.

smartyfarts

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

well i would be in favour of keeping her inside for as long as necessary until she is deprogrammed.
she shouldn't be allowed back into society if she presents a threat of any kind.

same is said about sex attackers and look what happens

Franz Von Peppercorn

smartyfarts wrote: »

She's their problem now. Put her in prison there and let her rot

Ok bear with.

A group of terrorists comes here from any other country. Cause lots of destruction. We don’t want to jail them because they will radicalise others. So can we deport them?

Manic Moran

jmreire wrote: »

Mea Culpa...The original Hawaiian's came from the islands of Bora Bora...and I just made the association...It's a long time ago since I read James A Micheners book " Hawaii ", and the place that the locals call " The Road's" meaning the directions to Bora Bora by sea. I have not been there so far,( unfortunately :rolleyes: ) but from what I have heard and seen on TV Pics etc. it is very beautiful,,, and far different than Tora Bora, ( which I have seen),, by a long stretch .;)

I’ve been to both. (All three, actually). Afghanistan has some spectacular scenery, if they ever sort themselves out they actually could have a viable tourism industry. That said, trust me, you want Bora Bora.

I think as a practical matter there is little choice but to let her back into the country. Even stateless people are someone’s problem, because they exist within the borders of somewhere. Unless you give them a decent boat, I guess. Note 5at the British are only rescinding citizenship if they believe there is another nationality that the person is eligible for. I would agree with the prior poster that the correct resolution is to treat as membership of a proscribed organization. PIRA members are jailed, not made stateless.

Credit Checker Moose

Is ISIS a proscribed organisation under Irish law?

Giveaway

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

Is ISIS a proscribed organisation under Irish law?

Probably not as none of the clowns caught sending funds got charged with being a member or were taken to the special criminal court.
I do hope this is remedied soon.

Mearings

If we had National Service this would never have happened.

mad muffin

All this is showing is, if you’re an Irish citizen.

You can join a murderous terrorist organisation.

Go on a murder spree/support murder spree/spreed hatefulness.

Come home and put your feet up.

You’re golden.

Perifect

Did anyone give an answer to why we should ban people who join isis but not people who join the British army? Remember, the British army killed thousands here, they bombed towns and cities, they set up a paedo home for them and high ranking politicians.