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Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

nhg

Many of you have probably heard a bit about the new Beef Plan Movement being set up.... I'm not involved in the setting up of it but I have joined as a member.

If you are interested in finding out more check it out at www.beefplan.ie

They are also set up on Whatsapp and Telegram which will bring updates & allow you chat with the group from your phone or tablet.

Mod note: Right folks, I'll make this extremely clear. Remain civil to each when discussing here or your right to post in this thread will be removed. Cheap shots aren't going to be allowed here so please don't post those comments.

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TUBBY

As far as I can see, the aim is to help with beef farmers input costs through purchasing groups and outputs through producer groups. Simple.

See now that there is a lot of interest in producer groups with other orgs.

Any discussion on cattle specs, excessive trim and grading machines outside tolerance can only be good. The more transparency the better.

wrangler

TUBBY wrote: »

As far as I can see, the aim is to help with beef farmers input costs through purchasing groups and outputs through producer groups. Simple.

See now that there is a lot of interest in producer groups with other orgs.

Any discussion on cattle specs, excessive trim and grading machines outside tolerance can only be good. The more transparency the better.

Any discussion they're having is only among them selves, Producer Groups were always here but only for farmers that were prepared to help themselves, A national Purchasing group failed miserably 20 years ago, but there is small local purchasing groups going well around the the country same as small producer groups, that are doing a good job

Coonagh

Was there much of a turnout at the live export protest today?

Bass Reeves

Coonagh wrote: »

Was there much of a turnout at the live export protest today?

The minimum for a meeting in most organisations is the number in the committee plus one. Did they reach that.

Base price

Coonagh wrote: »

Was there much of a turnout at the live export protest today?

There was 14 anyway according to the photo - https://www.farmersjournal.ie/beef-plan-movement-protest-outside-andrew-doyle-s-office-445865

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The minimum for a meeting in most organisations is the number in the committee plus one. Did they reach that.

It's apity that someone didn't make me aware of that 30 years ago....it'd explain a lot

charolais0153

Base price wrote: »

There was 14 anyway according to the photo - https://www.farmersjournal.ie/beef-plan-movement-protest-outside-andrew-doyle-s-office-445865

25 people were there according to agriland

Fuxake

the more I see of the Beef Plan the more I wonder what they are at? Do they know? they told us they were a group who wanted to unite farmers in withholding cattle supplies to get a better beef price. But since the New year, they have held two protests - one to get their bums on seats at the TB forum - and this one targeting Andrew Doyle who is hardly farmers biggest enemy. Now they are claiming that they are the second biggest representative association which isn't exactly a recipe for uniting all farmer representatives.... but they only got the crowds to come to marts who bought into them bringing the factories to their knees. starting to look more and more like a vanity project for a few Meath farmers to me.

alps

charolais0153 wrote: »

25 people were there according to agriland

It ain't easy...it sure ain't easy

ppn

Anyone watching Primetime earlier? More of the same from Cormac Healy (MII). He's well able to talk that fella. Still not giving up on the feedlots is he?
Whether it be factory-owned or factory-rented, the factory feedlot kill is still only 5% according to Cormac not the 20% farmers have been told. What about factory-contracted?
Is someone going to put this issue to bed anytime soon and present the concrete facts? There seems to be a lot of play on words here from any of the interviews I have seen with MII. The factory feedlot is no friend of this farmer anyways and I doubt the consumer would be impressed with them either - good riddance!

wrangler

ppn wrote: »

Anyone watching Primetime earlier? More of the same from Cormac Healy (MII). He's well able to talk that fella. Still not giving up on the feedlots is he?
Whether it be factory-owned or factory-rented, the factory feedlot kill is still only 5% according to Cormac not the 20% farmers have been told. What about factory-contracted?
Is someone going to put this issue to bed anytime soon and present the concrete facts? There seems to be a lot of play on words here from any of the interviews I have seen with MII. The factory feedlot is no friend of this farmer anyways and I doubt the consumer would be impressed with them either - good riddance!

Factory feedlots are no different to what farmers are doing on farm anyway in terms of feeding and management, so claiming the high moral ground in those areas will only backfire on BPM and thousands of farmers. Once you put 20 cattle in a pen in a shed, the image is the same whether you have 3 pens or 33 pens, Cattle are probably better cared for in the shed with 33 pens
The way BPM is carrying on you'd imagine there's a factory feedlot at every cross roads which isn't the case, We see in the lamb trade now that processors are ensuring that demand doesn't exceed supply, By ensuring supply the beef processors can create more demand iykwim.
Apparently if they lose shelf space because they can't supply, they lose it for months.

tractorporn

wrangler wrote: »

Factory feedlots are no different to what farmers are doing on farm anyway in terms of feeding and management, so claiming the high moral ground in those areas will only backfire on BPM and thousands of farmers. Once you put 20 cattle in a pen in a shed, the image is the same whether you have 3 pens or 33 pens, Cattle are probably better cared for in the shed with 33 pens
The way BPM is carrying on you'd imagine there's a factory feedlot at every cross roads which isn't the case, We see in the lamb trade now that processors are ensuring that demand doesn't exceed supply, By ensuring supply the beef processors can create more demand iykwim.
Apparently if they lose shelf space because they can't supply, they lose it for months.

I really don't know how you can convince yourself that a yard in Louth with 3500 cattle housed is no differ to what farmers are doing?

wrangler

tractorporn wrote: »

I really don't know how you can convince yourself that a yard in Louth with 3500 cattle housed is no differ to what farmers are doing?

Surely when they're on an indoor diet it doesn't matter where they are., Where do you draw the line, I know farmers that are keeping 500 -2000 cattle.
I also know places with 35 cattle that you'd be ashamed of
Will pigs be BPMs next target

wrangler

tractorporn wrote: »

I really don't know how you can convince yourself that a yard in Louth with 3500 cattle housed is no differ to what farmers are doing?

I see farmers shopping in Lidl and Aldi now and they have no problem letting small shops go to the wall. It's all about scale now and all farming now is going the same way.

Bass Reeves

Factory feedlots and factory contracted feedlots opearte to an agenda. Nobody said the controlled 20% of the kill all year. 5% of the kill condensed into certain times of year mainly pre and post Christmass and May/June means that they are killing 20% at these times. There agenda is to control the kill at certain times of year and prevent the processors having to contract out to ordinary farmers.

The owned feedlots operate at a loss and the contracted feedlots are paid a premium over other farmers. At present the price of 70-100 day cattle bears no relation to finished cattle prices. Yet most of these cattle are going to feedlots. Most non contracted operators specialize in Cows this time of year, summer finishers buy a slightly lighter animal in General. Looking at prices of bullocks during the week in Castleisland ( not the hottest mart in Ireland) Most 500kg+ bullocks would struggle to leave much with 100/head if going to grass at a base of 4.1/kg in mid June. Yet contracted and owned feedlots are being filled where the feeding cost will be over double what grass costs.

The real killer for ordinary farmers is what happens when there is over supply when these cattle are available. The processors will kill these cattle first back up farmers cattle and cut sh!t out of the price . Along with taht they will penalize all cattle that are outside there spec

Siamsa Sessions

wrangler wrote: »

I see farmers shopping in Lidl and Aldi now and they have no problem letting small shops go to the wall. It's all about scale now and all farming now is going the same way.

There will always be niche markets but they’re limited by definition so not everyone can supply them. The precedent has been set too by supermarkets, and nearly all modern consumer products are the same, for continuously lower prices - be it food, phones, flights, online music, books, cars, TVs, etc.

Consumers expect cheap food now and the efficient farmer gives it to them. Can’t see this changing unless Government starts a food/environment awareness programme, to counter the supermarkets codding the people, and consumers’ choices change over the course of a few years. Then if they’re willing to pay more, maybe beef, lamb, milk, vegetables, etc. will stabilise in price.

Til then, you need to have scale as Wrangler said, or supply/create a niche market.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Factory feedlots and factory contracted feedlots opearte to an agenda. Nobody said the controlled 20% of the kill all year. 5% of the kill condensed into certain times of year mainly pre and post Christmass and May/June means that they are killing 20% at these times. There agenda is to control the kill at certain times of year and prevent the processors having to contract out to ordinary farmers.

The owned feedlots operate at a loss and the contracted feedlots are paid a premium over other farmers. At present the price of 70-100 day cattle bears no relation to finished cattle prices. Yet most of these cattle are going to feedlots. Most non contracted operators specialize in Cows this time of year, summer finishers buy a slightly lighter animal in General. Looking at prices of bullocks during the week in Castleisland ( not the hottest mart in Ireland) Most 500kg+ bullocks would struggle to leave much with 100/head if going to grass at a base of 4.1/kg in mid June. Yet contracted and owned feedlots are being filled where the feeding cost will be over double what grass costs.

The real killer for ordinary farmers is what happens when there is over supply when these cattle are available. The processors will kill these cattle first back up farmers cattle and cut sh!t out of the price . Along with taht they will penalize all cattle that are outside there spec

So I suppose farmers should be supplying this market and forget about beeffinishing

ppn

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Factory feedlots and factory contracted feedlots opearte to an agenda. Nobody said the controlled 20% of the kill all year. 5% of the kill condensed into certain times of year mainly pre and post Christmass and May/June means that they are killing 20% at these times. There agenda is to control the kill at certain times of year and prevent the processors having to contract out to ordinary farmers.

The owned feedlots operate at a loss and the contracted feedlots are paid a premium over other farmers. At present the price of 70-100 day cattle bears no relation to finished cattle prices. Yet most of these cattle are going to feedlots. Most non contracted operators specialize in Cows this time of year, summer finishers buy a slightly lighter animal in General. Looking at prices of bullocks during the week in Castleisland ( not the hottest mart in Ireland) Most 500kg+ bullocks would struggle to leave much with 100/head if going to grass at a base of 4.1/kg in mid June. Yet contracted and owned feedlots are being filled where the feeding cost will be over double what grass costs.

The real killer for ordinary farmers is what happens when there is over supply when these cattle are available. The processors will kill these cattle first back up farmers cattle and cut sh!t out of the price . Along with taht they will penalize all cattle that are outside there spec

There needs to be some clarification about the goings on here, in relation to the article from Agriland below:

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/revealed-factory-feedlot-contribution-to-irish-beef-kill/

older by the day

wrangler wrote: »

tractorporn wrote: »

I really don't know how you can convince yourself that a yard in Louth with 3500 cattle housed is no differ to what farmers are doing?

I see farmers shopping in Lidl and Aldi now and they have no problem letting small shops go to the wall. It's all about scale now and all farming now is going the same way.

Is it any harm to fight for the family farm. Jayus you are on here every fxxking day knocking any plan that comes along. At least they are bringing attention to the situation. I dont want to get personal but reading your posts you sound like a man that have given up . I am sorry, but dont be knocking people who are making a bit of noise, just because farming was represented for the past twenty years by gutless leaders

wrangler

older by the day wrote: »

Is it any harm to fight for the family farm. Jayus you are on here every fxxking day knocking any plan that comes along. At least they are bringing attention to the situation. I dont want to get personal but reading your posts you sound like a man that have given up . I am sorry, but dont be knocking people who are making a bit of noise, just because farming was represented for the past twenty years by gutless leaders

or gutless farmers. Too many times I was told by politcians that I was the only one in the county that had an issue with something... ye better get your finger out or you'll have another movement that has given up
You've seen the support at their protests, how can any action be taken with gutless farmers,
It's as I forecast

older by the day

A lion leading an army of sheep is better than an army of lions led by a sheep. Look at your own posts on this tread, everything is lost, this won't work, that won't work.

wrangler

older by the day wrote: »

A lion leading an army of sheep is better than an army of lions led by a sheep. Look at your own posts on this tread, everything is lost, this won't work, that won't work.

Carry on then, processors are quite safe, no government is going to interfere in an industry that's doing well and providing employment no matter what independent TDs spout out,
You'll always have opposition TDs agreeing with any rubbish you feed them

Sheep breeder

Fuxake wrote: »

the more I see of the Beef Plan the more I wonder what they are at? Do they know? they told us they were a group who wanted to unite farmers in withholding cattle supplies to get a better beef price. But since the New year, they have held two protests - one to get their bums on seats at the TB forum - and this one targeting Andrew Doyle who is hardly farmers biggest enemy. Now they are claiming that they are the second biggest representative association which isn't exactly a recipe for uniting all farmer representatives.... but they only got the crowds to come to marts who bought into them bringing the factories to their knees. starting to look more and more like a vanity project for a few Meath farmers to me.

Wasn’t much point protesting out side Doyle’s office and he up in the dail tidying up for to go to Europe because he won’t get elected in Wicklow again as for time in the dail he has done zilch for the TB problem in Wicklow.

Sheep breeder

wrangler wrote: »

Factory feedlots are no different to what farmers are doing on farm anyway in terms of feeding and management, so claiming the high moral ground in those areas will only backfire on BPM and thousands of farmers. Once you put 20 cattle in a pen in a shed, the image is the same whether you have 3 pens or 33 pens, Cattle are probably better cared for in the shed with 33 pens
The way BPM is carrying on you'd imagine there's a factory feedlot at every cross roads which isn't the case, We see in the lamb trade now that processors are ensuring that demand doesn't exceed supply, By ensuring supply the beef processors can create more demand iykwim.
Apparently if they lose shelf space because they can't supply, they lose it for months.

Have to agree with you wrangler ( which is very rare) about feedlots and farmers how many of us require them around the ring to buy weanlings and stores to keep the show moving. If they were not there do you think the beef feeder wouldn’t make dirty of the seller. All links in a chain.

Sheep breeder

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Factory feedlots and factory contracted feedlots opearte to an agenda. Nobody said the controlled 20% of the kill all year. 5% of the kill condensed into certain times of year mainly pre and post Christmass and May/June means that they are killing 20% at these times. There agenda is to control the kill at certain times of year and prevent the processors having to contract out to ordinary farmers.

The owned feedlots operate at a loss and the contracted feedlots are paid a premium over other farmers. At present the price of 70-100 day cattle bears no relation to finished cattle prices. Yet most of these cattle are going to feedlots. Most non contracted operators specialize in Cows this time of year, summer finishers buy a slightly lighter animal in General. Looking at prices of bullocks during the week in Castleisland ( not the hottest mart in Ireland) Most 500kg+ bullocks would struggle to leave much with 100/head if going to grass at a base of 4.1/kg in mid June. Yet contracted and owned feedlots are being filled where the feeding cost will be over double what grass costs.

The real killer for ordinary farmers is what happens when there is over supply when these cattle are available. The processors will kill these cattle first back up farmers cattle and cut sh!t out of the price . Along with taht they will penalize all cattle that are outside there spec

Don’t know where your getting feed lots operate at a loss and the feedlot in Louth or clonee don’t run at a loss. The new being built in Wexford certainly won’t run at a loss if Bert has anything to say about it.

memorystick

wrangler wrote: »

So I suppose farmers should be supplying this market and forget about beeffinishing

That's my plan. Currently begging lads to come buy my finished heifers. Never again. Going to buy light bullocks and sell as forward stores. One year keep and no meal. Spending near €180 on meal for heifers is not profitable or sustainable.

wrangler

memorystick wrote: »

That's my plan. Currently begging lads to come buy my finished heifers. Never again. Going to buy light bullocks and sell as forward stores. One year keep and no meal. Spending near €180 on meal for heifers is not profitable or sustainable.

It's a good idea to be selling to a farmer if you can, It'll probably be hard enough to buy value in light cattle though, even calves are a hundred too dear

Willfarman

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Don’t know where your getting feed lots operate at a loss and the feedlot in Louth or clonee don’t run at a loss. The new being built in Wexford certainly won’t run at a loss if Bert has anything to say about it.

That place was never anymore that a wealthy mans folly. The man hadn’t much hobbies. Not to far from my part of the world and the place was always a great asset in terms of employment and spin offs for the area but no way has it ever held its own as a enterprise.

SuperTortoise

wrangler wrote: »

It's a good idea to be selling to a farmer if you can, It'll probably be hard enough to buy value in light cattle though, even calves are a hundred too dear

Is it calves that are dear or is it beef is too cheap?

Albert Johnson

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Is it calves that are dear or is it beef is too cheap?

If the finished product went up by a €100 then all other stock would go up by €150 a head overnight. I don't always agree with wrangler but he's right about being better off selling to farmers imo. A comment that stayed with me regarding the live trade of late is that "there's great courage about", despite all the negative factors lads are mad to spend money.