Border Poll discussion

In the referendum in 1973 on a United Ireland extremist Republicans presumably did not vote - you say they boycotted it and anyways it appears they were busy setting off bombs and running away. Did Republicans express real remorse for murdering people like in Bloody Friday, when the ballot box was open to them?

RobMc59 wrote: »

I thought you said now isn't the time?And what if there was a poll and the same people didn't vote?

A border poll is the next step in the GFA process, is what I meant.

Nationalists/republicans didn't vote? Why wouldn't nationalists/republicans vote?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who is bellyaching about it? It didn't change a thing.

It is time for another border poll.

If it passes and a UI results, then Unionists can have another poll if at any time it looks like they would win. Fair is fair like. :cool:

I thought you said now isn't the time?And what if there was a poll and the same people didn't vote?

RobMc59 wrote: »

Certain posters went berserk when I mentioned that a few weeks ago!:)

Certain posters do not like being reminded of it all right!

RobMc59 wrote: »

If people don't vote they can't belly ache after-it's the same with those who don't participate in Westminster then gripe about it.

Who is bellyaching about it? It didn't change a thing.

It is time for another border poll.

If it passes and a UI results, then Unionists can have another poll if at any time it looks like they would win. Fair is fair like. :cool:

McMurphy

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It was boycotted by Nationalists so had no legitimacy.

Remember a poster called maryishere used to post this meaningless stat consistently whenever he or she was around.

janfebmar wrote: »

It was not boycotted by all natonalists if 1.1% voted for a united Ireland. Voting was free and open to all over 18 years of age.

Voter turnout was about the same or even higher than we get in referendums and elections here

Yes, we have been here before.

Let's just say, it is time for another border poll.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It was boycotted by Nationalists so had no legitimacy.

It was not boycotted by all natonalists if 1.1% voted for a united Ireland. Voting was free and open to all over 18 years of age.

Voter turnout was about the same or even higher than we get in referendums and elections here

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It was boycotted by Nationalists so had no legitimacy.

If people don't vote they can't belly ache after-it's the same with those who don't participate in Westminster then gripe about it.

Kermit.de.frog

janfebmar wrote: »

It is not the first border poll. There was one in the seventies in N. Ireland and voter turnout was about the same or even higher than we get in referendums and elections here. 99% voted to stay with the UK.

Nationalists boycotted it.

Junkyard Tom

janfebmar wrote: »

It is not the first border poll. There was one in the seventies in N. Ireland and voter turnout was about the same or even higher than we get in referendums and elections here. 99% voted to stay with the UK.

RobMc59 wrote: »

Posters went berserk when I mentioned that a few weeks ago!:)

It was boycotted by Nationalists so had no legitimacy.

janfebmar wrote: »

It is not the first border poll. There was one in the seventies in N. Ireland and voter turnout was about the same or even higher than we get in referendums and elections here. 99% voted to stay with the UK.

Certain posters went berserk when I mentioned that a few weeks ago!:)

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The whole United Ireland thing isn't going away. I'd say a lot of people are aware that the first border poll could be defeated

It is not the first border poll. There was one in the seventies in N. Ireland and voter turnout was about the same or even higher than we get in referendums and elections here. 99% voted to stay with the UK.

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'd agree - publish the costs of unification and we'll see what the polls say then.:cool:

Any sign of that poll showing 90% support for unity?

Kermit.de.frog

A UI is best achieved slowly and by stealth building on all island structures, economy, and the likes of the backstop rather than an actual vote IMO.

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a mistaken belief that there is a need for further polls once the first one has been defeated.

The whole United Ireland thing isn't going away. I'd say a lot of people are aware that the first border poll could be defeated but that's not the point - it creates a precedent and normalises the concept of a future UI in the public consciousness.

As the UK retreats into itself post-Brexit while Ireland continues to look outwards, combined with changing demographics in the northeast of Ireland, we can expect the pro-UI desire to strengthen.

blanch152 wrote: »

You see this is the problem with one-sided interpretation of polls is that on the one hand we are expected to accept that the Northern Irish public reject the DUP position given the lack of support, yet on the other hand, we are supposed to reach the exact opposite conclusion in the face of very similar findings in respect of the SF position.

Ditto with Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill. Despite both having abysmal ratings, one can be excused, the other not.

Completely baffling. Completely inconsistent.

After all, only this morning, the poll was telling us some very important things.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109619492&postcount=1166

You are the one who said SF support was around 30% and the vote for unity mirrored that.

So SF support held. 23% are undecided.

So it is bull**** to present that as a 'rejection'. You are just slanting things here.

I asked an admitted Unionist about something specific about the findings. What is the problem with that.

You must have missed the post where I agreed that O'Neill is not a great leader so far.

Don't let it stop you trying to shift the narrative to this being about SF.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When you have almost 25% of the electorate undecided, it is churlish and self serving to describe the motion as 'rejected'.
It is just another poll, don't get your hopes up too much. The real game changer hasn't happened yet.

I'd agree - publish the costs of unification and we'll see what the polls say then.:cool:

blanch152

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You don't get it do you? A border poll kicks off the 'game' and the first loss is one - nil. The problem for you is that you have to keep winning but those seeking a UI only need to win once. This is a one-way-street and at the end is a UI.

It is a mistaken belief that there is a need for further polls once the first one has been defeated. All the GFA says is that there must be at least seven years between polls. It doesn't say there must be a second one.

If the first one is heavily defeated, and there is no real change in sentiment, there is no need to hold a second one. In fact, the SoS would have no status for their belief.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When you have almost 25% of the electorate undecided, it is churlish and self serving to describe the motion as 'rejected'.
It is just another poll, don't get your hopes up too much. The real game changer hasn't happened yet.

You see this is the problem with one-sided interpretation of polls is that on the one hand we are expected to accept that the Northern Irish public reject the DUP position given the lack of support, yet on the other hand, we are supposed to reach the exact opposite conclusion in the face of very similar findings in respect of the SF position.

Ditto with Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill. Despite both having abysmal ratings, one can be excused, the other not.

Completely baffling. Completely inconsistent.

After all, only this morning, the poll was telling us some very important things.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109619492&postcount=1166

Junkyard Tom

facehugger99 wrote: »

If it was a gambling man and the poll was carried out tomorrow, I'd put support in the low 30s, maybe even less.

You don't get it do you? A border poll kicks off the 'game' and the first loss is one - nil. The problem for you is that you have to keep winning but those seeking a UI only need to win once. This is a one-way-street and at the end is a UI.

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

(Of course if you have any examples of the IRA intimidating nationalists into answering pollsters with particular answers, I'm all ears.)

I would like to see the poll that showed 90% in favour of unity too.

McMurphy

facehugger99 wrote: »

Given the history of IRA violence against their own community, it's pretty obvious which demographic would feel under the most pressure to answer 'correctly' to some pollsters' questions - I know that's what I'd do if I was unfortunate enough to find myself living under those conditions.

Ok - let's take this post at face value.

The problem I have with believing it is that during the height of the trouble's, it was the SDLP who were the party nationalists continued to vote for, returning them as the largest party time and again.

It was after the republican ceasefire and decommissioning that seen Sinn Fein turn the tables on the SDLP, and become the most popular party in the North representing nationalists.

You see the trouble with posting unsubstantiated nonsense now I presume, yeah?

(Of course if you have any examples of the IRA intimidating nationalists into answering pollsters with particular answers, I'm all ears.)

Here's a heartwarming story about how human kindness sometimes transends divided communities and I believe it's relevant to border issues.
https://www.derrynow.com/features/derry-city-cemetery-series-soldier-fountain-saved-group-1916-rebels/270277

blanch152 wrote: »

And the percentage who support the DUP position on Brexit is also broadly in line with their support, yet this thread has pages about them being rejected (which I agree with, by the way).

Both parties' positions have been rejected by everyone other than their core vote.

When you have almost 25% of the electorate undecided, it is churlish and self serving to describe the motion as 'rejected'.
It is just another poll, don't get your hopes up too much. The real game changer hasn't happened yet.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You just said the 32% was broadly in line with SF support and now you are saying SF's position on a UI poll now has been rejected?
They have held their support for that. No surprise there.

We know from previous polls that that figure changes dramatically if Brexit or a hard Brexit occurs. Some of the No to a poll now and the undecided's become Yes vores.

I am not seeing any shocks here.

And the percentage who support the DUP position on Brexit is also broadly in line with their support, yet this thread has pages about them being rejected (which I agree with, by the way).

Both parties' positions have been rejected by everyone other than their core vote.

johnnyskeleton

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Oh my. I'm criticising your approval of a post. A post in which they quite you almost verbatim. A post that has been criticised and commented upon all afternoon.

Is there something unclear here?

Mod note:

Let's not go down this road. People can thank whatever posts they like, whether they agree with the comments or not. Crucially, if someone made a comment, don't try to goad someone else into discussing it.