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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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who_me

cgcsb wrote: »

We could add a couple of hundred onto motor tax to fund the gap I suppose, but you could argue that would be punative to people no living in Cities, Ireland still has nearly 40% of the population living in rural areas.

I would propose imposing a tax on companies within the urban area that provide staff parking, it is a benefit in kind after all, and then start replacing on street parking with more cycle lanes and better foot paths, keep some loading areas, dissabled spaces and ecar charging points.

At present if you own a car and your company offers free parking, you are going to drive, no other modal choice makes sense. It has to become expensive to park.

I agree that the company parking is an appealing perk, but presumably that has its own cost to the company (in the form of the cost of the land, which is increasingly expensive; and perhaps in maintenance/monitoring). Instead of lots of companies along the route, all offering their own parking spaces, they could voluntarily contribute to a 'bus fund'. How much does it actually cost to run one bus (fuel & driver) for a day?

Having a free 24 hour bus nearby would be a very nice draw for staff, and it'd help any company who has (or wants) longer/more work shifts.

And for any of those who are calling for additional such routes, Bus Eireann could set a target: if businesses can subsidise a set percentage of the cost, they'll offer extended hours service. And if it hits a higher percentage (full cost, or full cost with the help of a Government subsidy) they'll offer a full 24/7 service.

questionmark?

EnzoScifo wrote: »

60% growth in passenger numbers on the 220 since the introduction of 24 hour timetable.

Imagine the impact that would have on traffic if replicated across the network. Goes to show if you make it a usable service it will be used!!

kuro2k

cgcsb wrote: »

I would propose imposing a tax on companies within the urban area that provide staff parking, it is a benefit in kind after all, and then start replacing on street parking with more cycle lanes and better foot paths, keep some loading areas, dissabled spaces and ecar charging points.

At present if you own a car and your company offers free parking, you are going to drive, no other modal choice makes sense. It has to become expensive to park.

A tax will never happen, government talked about introducing a parking bik tax over 10 years ago

Public / Civil servants benefit most from free city center parking. Very few private sector employees have free parking in urban areas

j8wk2feszrnpao

cgcsb wrote: »

We could add a couple of hundred onto motor tax

There’s enough tax/fees paid on buying a car, fuel, motor tax, NCT...
Asking for hundreds to be added to motor tax is also asking to increase business costs, and therefore the cost of the product bought by the consumer.

cgcsb

who_me wrote: »

Make it free and a lot of people wouldn't go near their cars.

We could add a couple of hundred onto motor tax to fund the gap I suppose, but you could argue that would be punative to people no living in Cities, Ireland still has nearly 40% of the population living in rural areas.

I would propose imposing a tax on companies within the urban area that provide staff parking, it is a benefit in kind after all, and then start replacing on street parking with more cycle lanes and better foot paths, keep some loading areas, dissabled spaces and ecar charging points.

At present if you own a car and your company offers free parking, you are going to drive, no other modal choice makes sense. It has to become expensive to park.

who_me

EnzoScifo wrote: »

60% growth in passenger numbers on the 220 since the introduction of 24 hour timetable.

Make it free and a lot of people wouldn't go near their cars.

EnzoScifo

60% growth in passenger numbers on the 220 since the introduction of 24 hour timetable.

snotboogie

okedoke wrote: »

to be expected i would say - BAM are not interested in running a hotel so will look for a buyer before building.

I think they have a client, the client will operate the hotel but won't own the site. They are looking to sell the site.

okedoke

snotboogie wrote: »

Hmmmm....

BAM seeks buyer for 220-bedroom hotel on site of former Cork city tax office

to be expected i would say - BAM are not interested in running a hotel so will look for a buyer before building.

snotboogie

Hmmmm....

BAM seeks buyer for 220-bedroom hotel on site of former Cork city tax office

Agent CBRE has been instructed to offer the hotel for sale in advance of its delivery by its current owners, Bam Property Ltd. The hotel will be delivered to a specification pre-agreed between the parties.

snotboogie

CHealy wrote: »

That site in Mahon will be sold Id imagine, akin to the Wilton Shopping Center site. A plot with planning is more valuable than a plot with none, we wont see development here for a long time.

It's the same people who built the current apartments on Jacobs Island. I'd say that it's unlikely but not impossible that this planning was sought for flipping. Any word on who, if anyone, bought the Wilton site?

cgcsb

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

it could be that The Mahon Tower could very well be Cork’s tallest building.

The tallest building in Cork being suburban would be a disappointment to say the least. I'd imagine mahon is contingent on the luas being finished.

cgcsb

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Exactly. What if they fell over?

It's never been done before, world's tallest they say.

cgcsb

janfebmar wrote: »

What about safety concerns about very tall towers though? I think a few say 10 storeys are better than one 30 storey?

???

chalkitdown1

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Exactly. What if they fell over?

I know right. The Shard in London fell over twice last week alone. Can't trust these tall building at the rate they're tumbling.

CHealy

That site in Mahon will be sold Id imagine, akin to the Wilton Shopping Center site. A plot with planning is more valuable than a plot with none, we wont see development here for a long time.

Slipperydodger

Patrick 1959 wrote: »

it could be that The Mahon Tower could very well be Cork’s tallest building.

Any word of progress on that Mahon tower? Cork badly needs residential development soon!

Patrick 1959

it could be that The Mahon Tower could very well be Cork’s tallest building.

AugustusMinimus

janfebmar wrote: »

What about safety concerns about very tall towers though? I think a few say 10 storeys are better than one 30 storey?

Exactly. What if they fell over?

SleetAndSnow

janfebmar wrote: »

What about safety concerns about very tall towers though? I think a few say 10 storeys are better than one 30 storey?

What sort of safety concerns? Most countries seem to be fine with high towers so why wouldn't Ireland?

IMO, If something is going to be built there it needs to be different and stand out, hence the 40 stories. Building a 20 story which has the possibility of being overtaken in the future is pretty eh. Heck even 34/35 would be amazing. But below that.. Since its such a interesting and important location, having a landmark building would really stand out. I think its almost a perfect location for it really. Right in the centre of all new developments and right at where the rivers rejoin, what beautiful scenery that would show at the top

janfebmar

What about safety concerns about very tall towers though? I think a few say 10 storeys are better than one 30 storey?

Rhys Essien

It would be an awful pity if the Port tower ends up less than 30 storeys. After all it is to be the gateway building so to speak.If the one in Mahon at 25 storeys goes ahead, they’ll all end up alike. We’ve only one chance. And to think the height restrictions are after being lifted. :rolleyes:

questionmark?

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Construction-boom-in-Cork-as-another-crane-joins-the-city-skyline--f7506da7-4c12-413b-98d2-84cc32074b07-ds

Penrose Docks got its first of three cranes up today four weeks ahead of schedule. Due to open April 2020.

Patrick 1959

Now I would be worried about who is replacing Pat Ledwidge. Hope it’s not a councilor/ politician.

rounders

marno21 wrote: »

Whatever about the 40 storey, this is even more disappointing. A man with unprecedented vision in Irish planning, he will be sorely missed.

When did this get announced? Always had great time for the man!

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

Seems like the Docklands Tower has been revised down to less than 30 storeys pre planning:

The architectural revival transforming Cork’s landscape

I get the impression that planning permission is imminent, probably after the Prism decision. Also disappointing to see Pat Ledwidge stepping down, apparently senior Cork City Councilors were going to reject planning for Penrose Dock before he intervened

Whatever about the 40 storey, this is even more disappointing. A man with unprecedented vision in Irish planning, he will be sorely missed.

CHealy

Meursault wrote: »

Agree with this. I would be happy to see those bonded warehouses get a new lease of life. If there is a landmark building included also, then all the better.

There is so much potential to that site, but like a lot of places on the docks, it is just an eye sore at the moment.

Mr.Artist and friends would lead you to believe they are the most beautiful must-be protected structures in the world. I think they are disgusting.

Meursault

CHealy wrote: »

I think any realistic person will know that there was never going to be a 40-story tower built on that site, the developers knew this from the very start but its classic overstating. I suspect if (big if) something is built there, it'll be in the 17 - 25 story bracket at the very most, which to be honest if done correctly will still look great.

Agree with this. I would be happy to see those bonded warehouses get a new lease of life. If there is a landmark building included also, then all the better.

There is so much potential to that site, but like a lot of places on the docks, it is just an eye sore at the moment.

CHealy

snotboogie wrote: »

Seems like the Docklands Tower has been revised down to less than 30 storeys pre planning:

The architectural revival transforming Cork’s landscape

I get the impression that planning permission is imminent, probably after the Prism decision.

I think any realistic person will know that there was never going to be a 40-story tower built on that site, the developers knew this from the very start but its classic overstating. I suspect if (big if) something is built there, it'll be in the 17 - 25 story bracket at the very most, which to be honest if done correctly will still look great.

snotboogie

Seems like the Docklands Tower has been revised down to less than 30 storeys pre planning:

Port of Cork: The site of the protected Customs House and Bonded Warehouses has been bought by New York-based Kevin O’Sullivan’s Tower Holdings Group subject to planning permission. The initial suggestion of a 30- to 40-storey tower on the quay has been scaled back and the design team to be appointed shortly will include an international architect working with local firms in a package of 60 components. The plans for hotel, office and residential accommodation are currently under discussion with City Hall.

The architectural revival transforming Cork’s landscape

I get the impression that planning permission is imminent, probably after the Prism decision. Also disappointing to see Pat Ledwidge stepping down, apparently senior Cork City Councilors were going to reject planning for Penrose Dock before he intervened