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Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?

ongarboy

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/we-forgive-you-dad-of-cian-6-killed-at-pedestrian-crossing-tells-dangerous-driver-37637372.html

Just reading this heartbreaking story of a young boy who crossed at the pedestrian lights when the pedestrian man turned green and was knocked down and killed by a motorist with 32 previous convictions including a 3 year ban. Amazingly his family have forgiven the driver which just shows how amazing the human spirit can be.

The reason I'm writing is that I cross the junction of Guild Street and Mayor Street as a pedestrian every day in the IFSC in Dublin and it really angers me the way I see so many cars (mainly those coming from Beckett Bridge/North Wall Quay towards Sherrif St) breaking red lights. This morning, I observed the light going red and not one, not two, not three but 4 cars still proceeded to drive through the junction despite the pedestrian man being green and for which we all had to wait for the cars to pass before proceeding to cross.

I'm seeing this ignoring of red lights by motorists everywhere in Dublin these days. It used to just be amber gambling. Is this an upward trend associated with people's increased sense of impatience or has it always been there? More people will be killed like little Cian as long as this habit is not policed. I acknowledge that cyclists and pedestrians can similarly ignore ROTR but the consequences of a reckless motorist will always be so much worse in these circumstances. :mad::mad::mad:

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65535

So there was a study:
https://phys.org/news/2012-09-length-yellow-caution-traffic-accidents.html

The slower the speed of the road the shorter the Amber should be and of course the faster the speed of the road then the longer the Amber should be

Outkast_IRE

First Up wrote: »

There's enough Russian car crash videos out there to suggest they don't always get away with it.

Yes it has got a lot worse in my opinion . Relatively easy solution , install automatic fine cameras for running red .

Seth Brundle

65535 wrote: »

"Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?"

No, but the duration of the Amber light has got a lot less giving a lot less warning to slow down and stop.

Whatever the duration is, there exists a cohort of drivers who just don't bother trying to stop when they see an amber or an amber that has just turned to red.
The lack of action by the gardai on this issue means that the cohort is gradually increasing in numbers.

First Up

magicbastarder wrote:

that may be true, but it's beyond reasonable doubt that more people run reds because they know they'll get away with it.

There's enough Russian car crash videos out there to suggest they don't always get away with it.

colm_mcm

magicbastarder wrote: »

that may be true, but it's beyond reasonable doubt that more people run reds because they know they'll get away with it.

This.

magicbastarder

that may be true, but it's beyond reasonable doubt that more people run reds because they know they'll get away with it.

65535

Well without a time study being carried out we have no way of knowing for certain whether a longer duration Amber signal would benefit or not.
In my own experience I have seen lights changing, Green/Amber/Red in a very short duration

colm_mcm

65535 wrote: »

"Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?"

No, but the duration of the Amber light has got a lot less giving a lot less warning to slow down and stop.

I don’t buy that as an excuse, I see plenty enter junctions long after the amber is lit.

magicbastarder

i saw at one junction yesterday (two lanes feeding it), six motorists run the red.

65535

"Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?"

No, but the duration of the Amber light has got a lot less giving a lot less warning to slow down and stop.

colm_mcm

I’m getting a dashcam as you wouldn’t believe how bad it’s gotten in Limerick.
This morning I saw 3 cars followed by an artic drive across me as I had a green light at a junction.

I will see 3-4 instances of this every single day on a 15 minute commute through the city.

Shai

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

I reported issues with red light jumpers at a junction and in response there was a delay introduced, in addition to other measures.

I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification.

LeChienMefiant

Shai wrote: »

Unless I'm misreading, the council confirmed there is a delay (which I think has always been there). The council did not confirm this delay was increased.

I reported issues with red light jumpers at a junction and in response there was a delay introduced, in addition to other measures.

Zipppy

Shai wrote: »

Unless I'm misreading, the council confirmed there is a delay (which I think has always been there). The council did not confirm this delay was increased.

I think the delay depends on location, traffic speed, volume of traffic etc.

You can understand why there would be a delay..it protects pedestrians..

and it's not just motorists who are break lights...I take my life in my hands crossing the quays each morning, on a green man, with the amount of cyclists who just whizz by, especially when the lights have just gone red...

Shai

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

That is an absolutely ridiculous decision which by design will increase the abuse and risks associated with this type of behaviour.

Unless I'm misreading, the council confirmed there is a delay (which I think has always been there). The council did not confirm this delay was increased.

Ray Bloody Purchase

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

I've had this confirmed in writing by the council. It is by design that there is a delay for pedestrians lights.

That is an absolutely ridiculous decision which by design will increase the abuse and risks associated with this type of behaviour.

LeChienMefiant

ongarboy wrote: »

I find recently that even when the traffic lights go red, there is an increasing delay before the pedestrian lights go green. It's like the traffic planners have accepted that they have to account for increasing amounts of red light breakers.

It's worrying that the cops really don't give a s**t about it even when it happens before their very eyes.

I've had this confirmed in writing by the council. It is by design that there is a delay for pedestrians lights.

What Username Guidelines

ongarboy wrote: »

I find recently that even when the traffic lights go red, there is an increasing delay before the pedestrian lights go green. It's like the traffic planners have accepted that they have to account for increasing amounts of red light breakers.

And this increasing delay is what gives some road users more confidence in breaking lights.

ongarboy

I find recently that even when the traffic lights go red, there is an increasing delay before the pedestrian lights go green. It's like the traffic planners have accepted that they have to account for increasing amounts of red light breakers.

It's worrying that the cops really don't give a s**t about it even when it happens before their very eyes.

What Username Guidelines

Something I posted on the cycling forum as well from this morning

--

Christchurch this morning, 3 cars through red from Thomas Street. I must be getting immune to it, because the first two I thought "weren't too bad", but the last was quite blatant as there were cyclists already half way across the junction.

He continues on towards Lord Edward Street, pedestrian lights go red, our hero plows on through, as a pedestrian is stepping into the road waving his arms. Good stuff. I catch up to him at the next lights and he's got his head buried in his phone, texting. Doesn't spot me, but his passenger sees me looking and gives me the two fingers, window comes down, with the usual "**** off". I hadn't even said anything, hadn't actually planned on saying anything, but when I mentioned he had just broken two red lights, I get "**** off, I broke one red light". Silly me, eh?

The kicker? There's a Garda car behind him the whole time. The frustrating reality? They saw it all, and when I motion to them about the phone, I get glared at by the Gardai, who continue on, uninterested. On the plus side, they did let me move out to go around the truck and van parked in cycle lane on double yellows though, which was nice of them.

The rest of the commute had me seriously considering whether I should give up cycling. It's becoming beyond frustrating.

[Deleted User]

downtheroad wrote: »

So we have the technology but there is no plan to roll it out across the country.

1,300 road users detected breaking red lights at busy Luas junction in Smithfield https://jrnl.ie/4501812

It's much, much worse than that. It's not just that there is no plan to roll it out further. They've actually stopped prosecutions from the one and only camera that we have, because it was too much bother apparently.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/camera-that-caught-1-300-drivers-running-red-lights-now-lying-idle-g696v3fh6

[Deleted User]

So we have the technology but there is no plan to roll it out across the country.

1,300 road users detected breaking red lights at busy Luas junction in Smithfield https://jrnl.ie/4501812

magicbastarder

waiting at the lights on east wall road this morning, waiting to turn right onto east wall road (if you know the junction, this should make sense). a full three seconds after the lights had turned red for crossing traffic, and after the light had turned green for me, a flatbed truck carrying (am plucking a figure out of the air) 20 or 30 tons of reinforced concrete on the back drove through the red without any attempt at slowing.

trellheim

I have to say RLJs are my pet hate . Most of them do not see why it is wrong and go nuts when I accuse them of being tools

ZX7R

Saw a woman not just jump but got anoyed at waiting for the green at the railway bridge in Kildare town this afternoon, she broke the red made it have way over the bridge nearly going head on into a van.
Had to say I had to laugh at her panic ridden reversing to let the line of on coming traffic through.

CramCycle

Went from Bray into town last Saturday afternoon, no heavy traffic on the way there or the way back but the red light jumping was as bad as rush hour, only one junction had no red light jumpers, and that was because weveryoen made it through before the light changed, it was phenomenal, it really is just the norm nowadays.

jochenstacker

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Jesus, imagine the uproar.
"It's too easy to get 12 points and be disqualified"
"Flash for cash cameras at the lights now"
"i had to break the red light"
"The amber wasn't on long enough"
"The car behind me would have rear ended me" - had a pleasant 'discussion' with someone on twitter who said he had to speed at the M7 roadworks because the trucks and buses behind him are speeding and will just rear end him if he doesn't speed. :rolleyes:

etc

Well, I've seen the introduction of the theory test, penalty points, NCT, the RSA, the traffic corps and a drive to make drink driving socially unacceptable.
Some people will piss and moan about it, but they get waved aside and after a year most of them shut up, except for some serious cranks.
All the excuses were already wheeled out for speeding and drink driving and as the campaign said, none of them work.
This could very easily be railroaded through, because any arguments against curbing red light jumping are lost before their proponent even opens their mouth.
I say do it and be utterly Stalinistic about it.

[Deleted User]

EdgeCase wrote: »

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was also just a non-statistically based reaction by some local politicians in a particular city because some of their constituents were annoyed with getting tickets for breaking read lights.

I would add the cameras and extend the orange phase of the sequence by 1 to 2 seconds to give better warning.

The orange phase should be longer on roads that are >50km/h in my opinion anyway.

The amber time is already based on the speed limit of that road.
A longer amber would be of limited use, probably better to use the Russian idea of a flashing green a couple of seconds before the Amber light and remove the pause after the red, that encourages ted light jumping.

EdgeCase

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was also just a non-statistically based reaction by some local politicians in a particular city because some of their constituents were annoyed with getting tickets for breaking read lights.

I would add the cameras and extend the orange phase of the sequence by 1 to 2 seconds to give better warning.

The orange phase should be longer on roads that are >50km/h in my opinion anyway.

magicbastarder

they do say the number of t-bones reduced, but the number of rear-endings went up. would be curious about injury rates - a t-bone strikes me as a less pleasant crash to be in.