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WRU move to kill off Ospreys

Former Former

Here's the story.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-ospreys-set-merge-major-15921430

Pretty massive stuff. The Scarlets were supposed to be big enough to survive as a single entity, it's a real shame it's (apparently) come to this.

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sydthebeat

30 years ago if anyone had said that neath, Swansea and Llanelli would end up being merged together they would have been laughed at......

MarinersBlues

errlloyd wrote: »

I wonder if without the benefit of the provinces would Ireland have placed their four professional franchises differently. I think Cork at the time probably had a much stronger claim to a professional franchise than Galway.

Two teams in Leinster more likely.
Dublin and then the rest.

Tigerandahalf

I wonder how the Ospreys players will be carved up. Will the top tier players move on block to Scarlets and then the lesser lights moved up north to Colwyn Bay.

There had been talk of a 2 + 2 approach where presumably the best players would play with Cardiff and Scarlets/Ospreys and then the other 2 would be development sides. The 2 lesser sides would be Welsh union owned with academy players perhaps pushed there.

All you can hope is that the community get behind that Colwyn Bay side and fill out the stadium. It is meant to be a beautiful region with nice beaches, from looking online. So it might be a nice trip. Population of the town is 30,000.

Cosmo Kramer

MarinersBlues wrote: »

Two teams in Leinster more likely.
Dublin and then the rest.

I think they would have gone with just three professional teams for cost reasons given the state of Irish rugby in the 90s. The teams would have been based in Belfast for NI, Dublin for the east coast and commuter counties and Limerick for the rest of the country.

Neil3030

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I wonder how the Ospreys players will be carved up. Will the top tier players move on block to Scarlets and then the lesser lights moved up north to Colwyn Bay.

There had been talk of a 2 + 2 approach where presumably the best players would play with Cardiff and Scarlets/Ospreys and then the other 2 would be development sides. The 2 lesser sides would be Welsh union owned with academy players perhaps pushed there.

All you can hope is that the community get behind that Colwyn Bay side and fill out the stadium. It is meant to be a beautiful region with nice beaches, from looking online. So it might be a nice trip. Population of the town is 30,000.

Colwyn Bay, Deganwy, Conwy are all great spots. You're a short hop from Snowdonia National Park too if you bring the car over.

The 2+2 idea might explain why Newport wasn't merged with Cardiff.

nice_guy80

Leinster has enough clubs, schools and population to have two teams

Former Former

It's another nail in the coffin for the Pro14 too.

Cosmo Kramer

The 'Scarlet Ospreys' would have quite a squad to pick from next year if they're allowed to keep their better players in a 2+2 Welsh setup. Leinster-esque in terms of both strength and depth. Presumably some will have to move on though?

Could have a XV something like...

Rob Evans (S)
Ken Owens (S)
Samson Lee (S)
Alun Wyn Jones (O)
Jake Ball (S)
Dan Lydiate (O)
Justin Tipuric (O)
Aaron Shingler (S)
Gareth Davies (S)
Rhys Patchell (S)
George North (O)
Hadleigh Parkes (S)
Jonathan Davies (S)
Steff Evans (S)
Leigh Halfpenny (S)

thomond2006

Former Former wrote: »

It's another nail in the coffin for the Pro14 too.

How so?

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

How so?

You know, the failing pro 14? That the South Africans are desperate to get into?

Cosmo Kramer

I've never been to South Wales so, to be honest, I've never really looked it up before, but I'm surprised at how near, geographically, all the Welsh pro teams are to each other. Scarlets and Ospreys' stadiums are only 11 miles apart, Cardiff and Dragons' are 15. I always had it in my head that Llanelli was way out in West Wales somewhere, but it's not all like that.

Longer term the way for Welsh rugby to succeed financially might end up being a merger of Dragons and Cardiff into an East Wales team as well as this merger and just have three pro teams that keep all their best players in the principality.

[Deleted User]

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You know, the failing pro 14? That the South Africans are desperate to get into?

No no - he doesn't mean that specific failing pro14 - he means the other failing pro14, you know the one with the most competitive teams in Northern Hemisphere rugby.

troyzer

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

I've never been to South Wales so, to be honest, I've never really looked it up before, but I'm surprised at how near, geographically, all the Welsh pro teams are to each other. Scarlets and Ospreys' stadiums are only 11 miles apart, Cardiff and Dragons' are 15. I always had it in my head that Llanelli was way out in West Wales somewhere, but it's not all like that.

Longer term the way for Welsh rugby to succeed financially might end up being a merger of Dragons and Cardiff into an East Wales team as well as this merger and just have three pro teams that keep all their best players in the principality.

South Wales has something like three quarters of the Welsh population. As well as that, rugby is not particularly popular in North Wales. It makes absolute sense.

Buer

The truth is somewhere in the middle. The Pro14 isn't a great league. It's not even a good league. But it is also aggressively trying to grow and has brought in more revenue through television and expansion of late and they deserve credit for that. They have shown a willingness to examine their set up and take drastic measures to improve the league. These won't improve it overnight though.

At the moment though, it's a bit of a joke due to how teams treat it but it's hard to blame some of them for doing so. If the Welsh teams get their affairs in order and the South Africans consolidate and gradually improve, it could be a great league. Not exactly small ifs though.

Former Former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No no - he doesn't mean that specific failing pro14 - he means the other failing pro14, you know the one with the most competitive teams in Northern Hemisphere rugby.

... Two of which are about to cease to exist.

[Deleted User]

The Pro 14 doesn't need relegation at least, we still get new teams every year :pac:

awec

Buer wrote: »

The truth is somewhere in the middle. The Pro14 isn't a great league. It's not even a good league. But it is also aggressively trying to grow and has brought in more revenue through television and expansion of late and they deserve credit for that. They have shown a willingness to examine their set up and take drastic measures to improve the league. These won't improve it overnight though.

At the moment though, it's a bit of a joke due to how teams treat it but it's hard to blame some of them for doing so. If the Welsh teams get their affairs in order and the South Africans consolidate and gradually improve, it could be a great league. Not exactly small ifs though.

It is trying to grow, but just how much more of this team changing bollocks can it really endure?

This is probably the worst of the lot. The most successful Welsh side is about to get canned and their other successful team is going to be changed up as a result.

They have a big problem here. Ospreys fans will not go to Llanelli to watch a team playing in red called Scarlets. If they change the team name, or the kit, or where the team plays, then Scarlets fans will not go watch that team.

And the league has absolutely no business letting in any more "development" (read: shite) teams. The product is already weak enough as it is.

Squidgy Black

Wonder are the WRU going to try and push as many of the excess players over to the Dragons?

You'd imagine the bigger players will be looking east.

thomond2006

Let's not be totally miserable.

The Welsh regions are underperforming, steps are being taken to address it. Questionable steps, yet steps nonetheless. There is a population of 687k in North Wales with no professional rugby team, there's a potential market. Colwyn Bay is a 4hr drive from Llanelli but is currently in the Scarlets "region".

The Scots have now got two competing teams, as opposed to previous seasons where only one would be strong.

Benetton have become a playoff contender.

The Pro14 by all accounts will not accept further small unions from South Africa (the Griquas and Pumas) and are only looking for the other current Super Rugby teams to join.

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

It is trying to grow, but just how much more of this team changing bollocks can it really endure?

This is probably the worst of the lot. The most successful Welsh side is about to get canned and their other successful team is going to be changed up as a result.

They have a big problem here. Ospreys fans will not go to Llanelli to watch a team playing in red called Scarlets. If they change the team name, or the kit, or where the team plays, then Scarlets fans will not go watch that team.

And the league has absolutely no business letting in any more "development" (read: shite) teams. The product is already weak enough as it is.

You forgot to add historically in front of the most successful bit there. Ospreys have been in steady decline for the last few years. They are currently only marginally better than Dragons.

Neath and Swansea were bitter rivals and yet formed the Ospreys. Fans may not like it at first but if the team performs, they will come around quick enough.

Tigerandahalf

Reading an article on the bbc earlier it mentioned how the Professional Rugby Board (PRB) that now runs Welsh rugby is made up of the 4 clubs plus Wales rugby union (WRU).

WRU already own the Dragons so any merger may help the WRU voting powers on the future of the game there. Presumably Colwyn Bay will be union owned that would give them a potential 5 - 2 vote majority, very close to full control.

The Liberty stadium is also owned by Swansea City FC it seems, so a potential saving in moving to Parc y Scarlets.

Buer

stephen_n wrote: »

Neath and Swansea were bitter rivals and yet formed the Ospreys. Fans may not like it at first but if the team performs, they will come around quick enough.

I'm not sure how quickly but yes, success will bring crowds in. A decade ago when the Ospreys were regularly reaching the European knock outs, they had some very good crowds for home crunch games. In back to back seasons, they recorded crowds of over 18k for big home games.

If Scarpreys/Osplets are topping tables and/or reaching European knock outs the attendances will creep back up again. Parc y Scarlets is only a 15k capacity stadium and they should be looking to fill that 8-10 times a season if this move works.

Is it definitely a case of Scarlets absorbing the Ospreys, though? The potential audience in Swansea dwarves the potential audience in Llanelli. It would be like picking Galway over Cork to base a pro team...or Limerick over Cor.....never mind.

awec

stephen_n wrote: »

You forgot to add historically in front of the most successful bit there. Ospreys have been in steady decline for the last few years. They are currently only marginally better than Dragons.

Neath and Swansea were bitter rivals and yet formed the Ospreys. Fans may not like it at first but if the team performs, they will come around quick enough.

This is completely different. The Ospreys were a brand new team, at a new level for the sport.

What is happening now is expecting Ospreys to start supporting a team that quite literally have been their rivals for 16 years.

It's like expecting Leinster fans to start supporting Munster, with Munster fans accepting the team being renamed to the Munster Blues.

Former Former

awec wrote: »

It is trying to grow, but just how much more of this team changing bollocks can it really endure?

This is probably the worst of the lot. The most successful Welsh side is about to get canned and their other successful team is going to be changed up as a result.

They have a big problem here. Ospreys fans will not go to Llanelli to watch a team playing in red called Scarlets. If they change the team name, or the kit, or where the team plays, then Scarlets fans will not go watch that team.

And the league has absolutely no business letting in any more "development" (read: shite) teams. The product is already weak enough as it is.

Pretty much. The 2+2 model is makes sense on paper but who's going to bother their arse watching the third and fourth teams?

If you're starting a brand new team from scratch, you'd better fill it with good players and it had better be competitive from day one. Unfortunately I can't see Colwyn Bay Taffies being that.

Also; that stadium in Colwyn Bay is tiny.

awec

Former Former wrote: »

Pretty much. The 2+2 model is makes sense on paper but who's going to bother their arse watching the third and fourth teams?

If you're starting a brand new team from scratch, you'd better fill it with good players and it had better be competitive from day one. Unfortunately I can't see Colwyn Bay Taffies being that.

Also; that stadium in Colwyn Bay is tiny.

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

It's like expecting Leinster fans to start supporting Munster, with Munster fans accepting the team being renamed to the Munster Blues.

Munster Blues? Suits me.

sydthebeat

a fcuking running track ??!?!?!?!?!?!?

thomond2006

sydthebeat wrote: »

a fcuking running track ??!?!?!?!?!?!?

Scotstoun is also a running track.

errlloyd

thomond2006 wrote: »

Scotstoun is also a running track.

The sportsground has a sand dog track.

Buer

Murrayfield has a track on one side.

This is fun.