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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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timmyjimmy

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

That's literally what they don't want. That's of limited use to anyone. If that was the purpose of the building: to enrich a promoter and allow people to see the acts near where they live, then I'd be totally against any public money being spent on it whatsoever. The idea is to boost incomes in the city by getting people to stay, eat and drink.

They do not want what you're describing. At all.

I'm sure People will stay, spend money in the city for night time events which will be great for the city. What i'm talking about is more specifically daytime conferences/events that the centre will be used for.

What i've said above is what happens when a game is on PUC. I know because i've a lot of family from outside Cork who come for matches and this is literally what they do. As said, I know PUC has a far bigger capacity but it's an example of what people do for a one day event during the day. If it's a one day event during the day that is a work event, people will want to get in/out as quickly as possible. If traffic is an issue with choosing an events location, the current location of the event centre in the middle of town is less than favourable. This is why the events centre in the docklands would be a far better choice. It would appeal to far more event organisers when choosing an events location.

Afterall, this event centre is to appeal to people all over Munster and further afield, it's not like its near where they live. They may have a 2+ hour drive after leaving the city.

mire

timmyjimmy wrote: »

Footfall being the operative word here, you'd be better off walking to the events centre than driving into the city centre. Traffic will be horrible with all the extra cars coming into the city centre for events. At least if it were in the docklands, you would have easy access to the south link and lower glanmire road leading to quicker entry/exit of events if you are travelling from the rest of Munster or further afield. Coming into the city centre might put people off coming to events if traffic is a nightmare.

I could not disagree more. Your entire premise is based on evaluating a location based on how easy it is to get in and out of by car. In order to benefit from an event centre, we want to do the opposite; meaning making sure that people stay and spend time and money in the city. Not just in the event centre. Footfall is the criteria, not vehicular convenience.

I have never ever decided on whether I would go to a conference, a concert, a show, a restaurant on the basis of how easy it is to get there by car. If the destination is worth it, the journey is secondary.

timmyjimmy

mire wrote: »

I could not disagree more. Your entire premise is based on evaluating a location based on how easy it is to get in and out of by car. In order to benefit from an event centre, we want to do the opposite; meaning making sure that people stay and spend time and money in the city. Not just in the event centre. Footfall is the criteria, not vehicular convenience.

I have never ever decided on whether I would go to a conference, a concert, a show, a restaurant on the basis of how easy it is to get there by car. If the destination is worth it, the journey is secondary.

Believe me, i'm all for alternative methods of transport, arriving to/from event centre, especially cycling. The event centre will bring people to the city and they will stay in all the new hotels but the place is going to come to a standstill with the traffic that it does generate. Look at the location, it's pretty crap. Surrounded by narrow, one way streets. I hope they leave spaces for taxis to stop out front otherwise one car stopped will back up traffic no end. Not exactly ideal if the emergency services were to be called.

who_me

munstermagic11 wrote: »

For major events, the area around the center would be closed off. Traffic is a non issue.

That's just moving the drop-off point/traffic jam.

A bigger issue, IMO, is the reduction in lanes around the site (for cycles lanes) in combination with the potential event centre traffic. Single-lane streets are not a good idea if (when) you need emergency access.

Rhys Essien

timmyjimmy wrote: »

Believe me, i'm all for alternative methods of transport, arriving to/from event centre, especially cycling. The event centre will bring people to the city and they will stay in all the new hotels but the place is going to come to a standstill with the traffic that it does generate. Look at the location, it's pretty crap. Surrounded by narrow, one way streets. I hope they leave spaces for taxis to stop out front otherwise one car stopped will back up traffic no end.

Nobody is going to expect to drive up to the front door of the Event Centre. Having it in a central location gives all pubs and restaurants that surrounds it the benefits of people eating and drinking beforehand.

j8wk2feszrnpao

who_me wrote: »

That's just moving the drop-off point/traffic jam.

No reason to have vehicles clogging up the streets around the event center if managed correctly. If you want an event center, people are going to come into the city; up to the Council and organizers to ensure it works out.

But given the constant delays, the spoofing and lies, the event center is unlikely to proceed at this point.

leahyl

munstermagic11 wrote: »

No reason to have vehicles clogging up the streets around the event center if managed correctly. If you want an event center, people are going to come into the city; up to the Council and organizers to ensure it works out.

But given the constant delays, the spoofing and lies, the event center is unlikely to proceed at this point.

Haha, was just going to say this. We're debating the location of an events centre that probably won't even be built :pac:

who_me

leahyl wrote: »

Haha, was just going to say this. We're debating the location of an events centre that probably won't even be built :pac:

By the end of this thread, we'll be praising BAM for sparing us the traffic/noise/light/hooligan pollution from that damned Event Centre!

marno21

https://twitter.com/BAMIrl_/status/1101458691398778880

https://twitter.com/SeamusjKearney/status/1101455741037228032

Some more good shots of Navigation Square and the impressive progress at Horgan's Quay.

chalkitdown1

marno21 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BAMIrl_/status/1101458691398778880

Any word on what's going on Block A where Carey's Tools and The Sexton are?

Also, I love that all the replies under the tweet are about the Events Centre. lol

snotboogie

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

Any word on what's going on Block A where Carey's Tools and The Sexton are?

Also, I love that all the replies under the tweet are about the Events Centre. lol

According to the PROC Carey’s are set to be on site for another two years at least. The Sextant has to move because of a licensing issue after the change of ownership.

Markcheese

snotboogie wrote: »

According to the PROC Carey’s are set to be on site for another two years at least. The Sextant has to move because of a licensing issue after the change of ownership.

I was wondering why the Sextant was gone so quick... Bit of a shame to have it boarded up for 2 or 3 years

questionmark?

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Developer-re-submits-plans-for-13-storey-apartment-block-in-Glanmire-7fc00da9-9611-40b4-b73d-472263463fec-ds

Local political rep saying that it would take away from the character of Glanmire and complaint about the infrastructure.

The character of Glanmire is one of urban sprawl due to poor planning. How about he gets the finger out and starts campaigning for better infrastructure and dense development which would give critical mass for public transport. Another hurler on the ditch complaining but offering no viable solutions.

marno21

questionmark? wrote: »

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Developer-re-submits-plans-for-13-storey-apartment-block-in-Glanmire-7fc00da9-9611-40b4-b73d-472263463fec-ds

Local political rep saying that it would take away from the character of Glanmire and complaint about the infrastructure.

The character of Glanmire is one of urban sprawl due to poor planning. How about he gets the finger out and starts campaigning for better infrastructure and dense development which would give critical mass for public transport. Another hurler on the ditch complaining but offering no viable solutions.

LOL. 66 apartments will cause gridlock but not 608 houses. Comical stuff.

SleetAndSnow

Only just seen this now? Proposed development by the bus station? I thought that was a rusty looking hotel wasn't it? Or am I thinking of a different area

k0x1t3se9sj21.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&bed0daf9

k0x1t3se9sj21.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&bed0daf9

https://www.reddit.com/r/cork/comments/awnaxe/proposed_anderson_quay_development_by_bus_station/

Rhys Essien

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Only just seen this now? Proposed development by the bus station? I thought that was a rusty looking hotel wasn't it? Or am I thinking of a different area

https://www.reddit.com/r/cork/comments/awnaxe/proposed_anderson_quay_development_by_bus_station/

That’s an O’Callaghan proposal to the east of the bus station from a few years ago. The Prism and the hotel are still on the cards and are on the southern side.

Slipperydodger

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Only just seen this now? Proposed development by the bus station? I thought that was a rusty looking hotel wasn't it? Or am I thinking of a different area

https://www.reddit.com/r/cork/comments/awnaxe/proposed_anderson_quay_development_by_bus_station/

http://www.andersonsquay.ie

kub

Slipperydodger wrote: »

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Only just seen this now? Proposed development by the bus station? I thought that was a rusty looking hotel wasn't it? Or am I thinking of a different area

https://www.reddit.com/r/cork/comments/awnaxe/proposed_anderson_quay_development_by_bus_station/

http://www.andersonsquay.ie

Just as well I pass that way a lot, because reading that article you would swear the building was actually built.

Rhys Essien

Slipperydodger wrote: »

http://www.andersonsquay.ie

I notice on the bottom of the front page of that website it’s updated to 2019. It mightn’t mean anything but have O’Callaghan Properties any project at the minute?. It’s a nice looking building and would look great with the Prism and the new hotel opposite.

Edit: I thought Navigation Square was JCD but it’s OCP.

snotboogie

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I notice on the bottom of the front page of that website it’s updated to 2019. It mightn’t mean anything but have O’Callaghan Properties any project at the minute?. It’s a nice looking building and would look great with the Prism and the new hotel opposite.

Navigation Square

MrDerp

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I notice on the bottom of the front page of that website it’s updated to 2019. It mightn’t mean anything but have O’Callaghan Properties any project at the minute?. It’s a nice looking building and would look great with the Prism and the new hotel opposite.

OCP are building navigation square.

Worth a review of the first post in this thread for a grounding. Everything bar the prism is documented. Following posts from snot boogie will give you updates on what’s in progress and what’s stalled.

No movement on Anderson quay but the previously stalled trinity quarter looks like becoming a business school for UCC with various courses moving off campus to this new campus.

I think Anderson quay as a concept will change, and I can’t see it kicking off until the prism is done as it’ll be an awkward site to service either, with lane closures galore.

marno21

No sign of CMATS yet but a skeleton of it seems to have made it into the Draft Regional Spatial Strategy for the Southern Region:

Here are the main points:

1. Light rail: A strategic east-west public transport corridor from Mahon to Ballincollig via the City Centre, serving CIT, CUH, UCC, Kent Station, Docklands, Mahon Point. The corridor requires development consolidation along it at appropriate nodal points for a high capacity service

2. Heavy rail: Enhanced commuter rail services:
a. P&R and new station at Blarney/Stone View
b. New station for Monard SDZ
c. New station to regenerate/intensify Blackpool/Kilbarry
d. Kent Station interchange between walking/cycling/bus/light rail
e. New station at Tivoli Docks
f. P&R and new station at Dunkettle
g. Improved services to Cobh via better signalling and new bus interchange station at Ballynoe
h. Improved services to Midleton including new station at Carrigtwohill West, dual track and new station Water Rock.
i. Long term aim of services Midleton-Youghal however maintain track by constructing greenway

3. Core Bus Network: A comprehensive network of high frequency bus services providing radial services to other corridors and orbital services
across the network. Delivery of Cork BusConnects network, Core Radial Bus Network, Orbital Bus Network, Cross City Network, Supporting Radial Bus Services, Bus Priority, Regional Bus Networks and Metropolitan Town Bus Services are all key components.

4. Movement Strategy: Delivery of the Cork City Centre Movement Strategy 2018-2024

5. Walking: Make Cork the most walkable city in Ireland, implement and further develop upon the Cork City Walking Strategy 2013-2018 and strengthen the role of walking through improved walking network, district and neighbourhood walking networks, city and town centre accessibility

6. Cycling: Implement and further develop upon the Cork Metropolitan Area Cycle Network Plan 2017, improve and develop primary, secondary, greenway and feeder cycle networks and support cycling through infrastructures including cycle lanes, cycle parking, cycle hire schemes (Cork City Cycle Hire Scheme) and facilities in places of work

7. Public Transport Integration: provision for interchange opportunities together with information provision and revised fare structures;

8. Road Network Improvements: Improvements to the road network to support the sustainable growth of the metropolitan area, while also providing appropriate strategic provision for the movement of goods. Investment in the road network supports sustainable travel modes (walking, cycling, bus networks), supports strategic inter urban and inter regional freight traffic, especially between ports and airports. Improvements discourage secondary local trip and urban expansion based on road corridors. Strategic road corridors identified by separate objective

9. Other Strategic Road Priorities will include implementation of City Centre Movement Strategy, Cork Docklands and Tivoli Docks bridge
(South Docks Eastern Gateway Bridge, Mill Road) and road infrastructure (South Docks and North Docks Roads, Tivoli Access).

10. Management of freight around metropolitan Cork, enabled through Port of Cork relocation to Ringaskiddy, construction, logistics and delivery centre

11. Supporting Measures: Further measures to support the delivery of the Strategy, including parking management, Park and Ride, demand
management, mobility management, behavioural change programmes, etc

marno21

Also the following road improvements:

1. Advancing orbital traffic management solutions, through the implementation of appropriate demand management measures,
on the N40 and provision of alternative local roads, as deemed necessary. Specific measures should not be introduced in isolation, but only after due consideration of the impacts on access and movement across the city and suburbs, and progressed in parallel with the introduction of the necessary appropriate alternatives to service affected traffic movements

2. Enhanced regional connectivity through improved average journey times by road to Limerick and Waterford via proposed M20 Limerick to Cork and the targeted enhancement of the N25 between Cork and Waterford

3. Improved connectivity from Cork City to Cork Airport (including dedicated public transport corridor)

4. Dunkettle Interchange

5. Cork Northern Ring Road connecting the N22 to the M8 (identified in the NDP as a complementary scheme to the M20).

6. Cork Northern Distributor Road

7. Access to Monard SDZ

8. Cork City Docks and Tivoli Bridge and Street Infrastructure (including Eastern Gateway Bridge) Cork Docklands infrastructure is a key enabler for Cork under the NPF

9. Improved N22, N25, N27, N71 Inter Regional and Intra Regional corridors.

10. Upgrade of the R624 Regional Road Linking N25 to Marino Point
and Cobh

11. Upgrade of the R630 Regional Road linking Midleton to Whitegate Road (Energy Hub).

12. Cork Science and Innovation Park Access (a key enabler for Cork under the NPF)

13. Transport packages including road upgrades, relief roads, enhanced public realm, walking and cycling infrastructure for metropolitan towns and urban expansion areas.

14. North East Orbital Road (access for residential lands and public transport infrastructure Ballyvolane

15. Advancing transport study measures for Little Island.

https://www.southernassembly.ie/uploads/general-files/Draft_RSES_2018_-_WEB.pdf

Markcheese

There's so much in all that that's its almost impossible..
I know it's more of an aspirational thing..

marno21

Markcheese wrote: »

There's so much in all that that's its almost impossible..
I know it's more of an aspirational thing..

There needs to be a real big push behind it from all parties concerned.

Ireland needs to drop this idea that it's possible to expand and grow without providing infrastructure. The idea has been firmly debunked at this stage.

snotboogie

I feel like a dick complaining when a plan has an east west Luas, a full North Ring and an Eastern Gateway Bridge but the bus updates seem extremely vague. Also there is a lot of mentions of Monard. Is this just going to be a slightly better connected Northside version of Carrigaline?

rounders

snotboogie wrote: »

I feel like a dick complaining when a plan has an east west Luas, a full North Ring and an Eastern Gateway Bridge but the bus updates seem extremely vague. Also there is a lot of mentions of Monard. Is this just going to be a slightly better connected Northside version of Carrigaline?

I really hope Monard doesn't go ahead. It is just creating sprawl. Would prefer the stoneview town to go ahead instead which is essentially an extention of Blarney but the main focus should be on getting as much density into Tivoli and the docks!

marno21

snotboogie wrote: »

I feel like a dick complaining when a plan has an east west Luas, a full North Ring and an Eastern Gateway Bridge but the bus updates seem extremely vague. Also there is a lot of mentions of Monard. Is this just going to be a slightly better connected Northside version of Carrigaline?

I think the bus mentions are so vague is because the bus finer details haven't been worked out yet, it's part of BusConnects. The rail side of things was a lot simpler.

The only thing public transport wise in this plan that's actually funded so far is the bus side which is reason for a more optimistic view

marno21

According to today's SBP Sisk are to start work at the Crow's Nest this month with completion due August 2020

bladebrew

Has any building work started at Dunkettle yet Folks? I am away at the moment, but it's possible that I will be working in Little island when I am back in the summer, and I was just thinking it will cause a tricky commute for a few years!