ohnonotgmail wrote: » so you agree then that what you were taught was not linked to reality.
Auntie Semite wrote: » We were not taught anything about transgenderism as at the time basically nobody publicly identified as trans. No children whatsoever declared an interest in switching gender so it wasn't an issue. People seem to forget that. If you went back in time 20 years and explained that in 2019 children were switching genders they simply would not believe you or think the world had gone nuts. Why? Because it was considered extremely rare. The only trans person most people knew of back then was Lauren Harries who was quite famous at the time as transgender ism was considered so unusual and rare. I remember watching a documentary about her with my mother many years ago.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » Well that is bull****. there have been people who identified publicly as trans longer than i've been alive and i'm a lot older than you.
Auntie Semite wrote: » Were talking about Ireland here, very few people came out as Transgender in Ireland in the 80s. They may have been in private but certainly not in public. I realise I should've said almost nobody rather than nobody.
baby and crumble wrote: » Just because something is not spoken about, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Trans people have existed for centuries. Trans, non-binary and "two-spirit" individuals have been quietly living their lives since the dawn of time, dealing as best they could with discrimination, and just trying to get on with things. why do you think no kids wanted to talk about it? because they'd get locked up because people assumed they were insane. To say something didn't exist because the general public didn't know about it is ignorant in the extreme.
Auntie Semite wrote: » Yes I understand a tiny minority of individuals across all cultures believed themselves to be the opposite gender than the body they were born with. This was indeed regarded as a mental illness (gender dysphoria today) and was treated as such and sometimes that treatment was barbaric. I believe it is a form of mental illness and not something that should be encouraged in children.
baby and crumble wrote: » My point above still stands. So what? Trust me a lot of people in the 80's didn't come out about ANYTHING thanks to the societal pressures of the time. Homosexuality wasn't decriminalised here until 1993, for example. Also, I think you fundamentally are confused about being transgender, as opposed to a cross-dresser etc. If you are trans, you are trans. It's highly likely you knew then and know now people who are trans. You just don't know it, because they don't talk about it, because for a lot of people it's an intensely private thing- and no wonder, given how much people like Gemma and others like to boil being trans down entirely to hormones and surgery.
Auntie Semite wrote: » Well this is where the conversation gets messy (and where I worry I will be banned) I believe a tiny minority of people (true transgenderism) suffer from gender dysphoria which is a form of mental illness but I also believe this mental condition is actively being promoted and encouraged as a lifestyle/identity to both children and adults alike. I see the promotion of transgender ideology as no different than promoting anorexia. If a young girl with anorexia presented to a doctor should the doctor tell her 'hey your perception of your body image is correct. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, here are some diet pills keep going you go girl! Of course not it is highly irresponsible a day I believe it is highly irresponsible to do the same with trans people.
Auntie Semite wrote: » Both the Catholic and Muslim religions believe sex is for procreation only and therefore all non procreational sex including masturbation is 'unnatural'
ohnonotgmail wrote: » You can believe what you like. Just dont get upset because others want to teach stuff outside your narrowminded view of the world. It isn't the 1970's any more.
Auntie Semite wrote: » If a young girl with anorexia presented to a doctor should the doctor tell her 'hey your perception of your body image is correct. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, here are some diet pills keep going you go girl! Of course not it is highly irresponsible and I believe it is highly irresponsible to do the same with trans people.
Hotblack Desiato wrote: » Ignorant people used to say homosexuality was a mental illness, too. Which is a very warped viewpoint to be teaching kids, and not compatible with the 20th century (artificial contraception) never mind the 21st.
Auntie Semite wrote: » Homosexuality was only really viewed as a mentall illness in a small portion of history, namely the late 19th and through some of the 20th century. It was always known and acknowledged (if not accepted) throughout most of human history.
baby and crumble wrote: » What do you think happens when children (or adults) who start the process of transitioning go to a doctor? What you're suggesting does not happen. I would suggest you educate yourself on the process of transitioning before you make absolutely wrong statements like you've just made.
Auntie Semite wrote: » I don't get you, if a doctor offers or advises options of physical alterations to the body (surgical or hormonal) in order that the body might come to reflect what the mind percieves then this is the same as facilitating an anorexic. As in facilitating the optimal body shape the sufferer wishes to have.
Odhinn wrote: » Nope.
skooterblue2 wrote: » So you are proposing closing and buying out many fine schools? With what money? I wish I could have gone to religious school instead of state "tech" with politically appointed teachers (ie they couldnt get jobs anywhere else).
ohnonotgmail wrote: » It was listed as a mental illness in the DSM until 1973. That is in my lifetime. And by not accepted i presume you mean criminalised and those found committing homosexual acts locked up or chemically castrated.
baby and crumble wrote: » But it's not a simple process. You seem to think a kid says "i'm a girl' and 2 months later they're prepping for surgery. That's not what happens. There is significant work done to ensure that surgery is the right option for that person. Also, there are many many trans folks who never get surgery. At all. So your point there makes zero sense. Also equating anorexia and transgenderism is really quite objectionable. The majority of reputable studies I have read (actually I'd say probably all) come to the conclusion that transitioning (whether medically or socially, or both) improves the trans persons overall health and wellbeing, including their mental health. So in supporting transition- when it has been established that the person is trans - doctors are saving the health and often the lives of their patients. In supporting anorexia, that is distinctly not the case. i also don't want to talk too much about anorexia because it's not something I know much about, and it's eating Disorder Week, so it's not great timing to be giving out misinformation on the subject.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » Perhaps you should let the qualified medical people make those decisions. You are not qualified to make them.
Auntie Semite wrote: » I don't think it is a quick or simple process I never said it was. I'm aware that there are trans people who don't transition I'm speaking specifically about children and the dangers of offering such options at such a young and impressionable age. I'm sure having a wide breadth of knowledge on the subject you are aware that there are many many post op trans people who deeply regret having transitioned and experience suicidal ideation and actually commit suicide over it. In fact this aspect of trans suicides is frequently ignored. These people never seem to feature in these discussions.
skooterblue2 wrote: » I think Professor Tony Attwood thinks its "Erronous Logic" and covered under ASD.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » Does he? I thought he did a study that showed that there is a higher prevalence of ASD in people with gender dysphoria not that gender dysphoria was ASD
skooterblue2 wrote: » The new (relative) diagnosis of ASD (which I disagree with one umbrella name covering a wide and varied conditions), There can be a number of conditions. It comes from being unhappy with ones circumstances and if the situation would change then the individual would be happier. This doesnt work of course and in fact leads to a down right dangerous route of thought(eg. McNamaras Morons). Just because you want to do something doesnt mean you should or worse encouraged. People who have this gender dysmorphia often self harm and go on to attempt suicide. After the transition they continue to self harm etc. It doesnt make the individual happier at all. In the interim, unnatural hormones have been introduced into the body and dangerous surgery has been performed.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » are you applying that to all people who transition?
baby and crumble wrote: » Of course there are people who regret their transition. That needs to be looked at, however given the numbers of those who transition successfully and experience it as a positive vastly outnumber those who don’t. The question then becomes why do those people transition when it’s not the right thing for them? Do they feel pressured, was insufficient work done with them to prepare them, are there unscrupulous medical professionals practicing in the area? They’re all very valid questions. But it does seem that all the research to date does not point to this being a common occurance. So those who want to hold up the few examples as doomsday examples to say that being trans is wrong are misguided. And they add to a panic that honestly doesn’t have the research or even anecdotal eveidende to support it. Re kids: like I have said multiple times, no child can go for surgical interventions I order to transition. It’s illegal. They can socially transition but NOT surgically. So why are you bringing that up?
