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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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Calahonda52

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/council-seeks-to-ban-electric-scooters-from-public-roads-908493.html
Electric scooters should be banned from public roads and cycle paths, according to Dublin City Council.

Despite the rise in popularity of the two-wheel electric mode of transport, especially in cities, the majority of users are breaking the law.

“It is the council’s view that the use of electric scooters on public roads is illegal and that it is a matter for An Garda Síochána to enforce under road traffic legislation,” a spokeswoman for Dublin City Council said.

It is also illegal to ride a scooter on cycle paths, according to the Road Safety Authority.

etc

andydurnin

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://www.geekbuying.com/item/-GE-Stock--EU-Version-Original-Xiaomi-M365-Folding-Electric-Scooter-395695.html?Currency=EUR&gclid=Cj0KCQiAk-7jBRD9ARIsAEy8mh5Wiur-HrcKxzDgKTkkpdmjgzRnm_9G__ITuLm8gDHiXKJheghrGqIaAtXxEALw_wcB

Have you bought of them? How long it take to deliver?

cojomo2

andydurnin wrote: »

Where's the best place to buy a xiaomi m365 scooter that's around €400. Tried on gearbest and ordered got cancelled after 3 months of waiting.

3 store. €449, 2 year warranty, 2 spare tubes and tyres.

Theres a new "pro" version out now but not being stocked by 3 yet.

Shefwedfan

https://www.geekbuying.com/item/-GE-Stock--EU-Version-Original-Xiaomi-M365-Folding-Electric-Scooter-395695.html?Currency=EUR&gclid=Cj0KCQiAk-7jBRD9ARIsAEy8mh5Wiur-HrcKxzDgKTkkpdmjgzRnm_9G__ITuLm8gDHiXKJheghrGqIaAtXxEALw_wcB

andydurnin

Where's the best place to buy a xiaomi m365 scooter that's around €400. Tried on gearbest and ordered got cancelled after 3 months of waiting.

loyatemu

ted1 wrote: »

There are other issues. Woukd they be allowed on footpaths ?

I would say no, but I don't think there's anything to stop someone using an unpowered scooter on the footpath currently, and footpath cycling is largely unenforced.

Is the road suitable for them, with smaller wheels they are at a higher risk of accidents due to pot holes etc. This could lead to claims against councils etc.

good luck claiming against the council for potholes, how many cyclists have come off for that reason, or on the Luas tracks?

Would they be confined to cycle paths , how would this affect the flow of cyclists.

And so on

I don't see any reason why they couldn't use the cycle paths (I'm a regular cyclist but it wouldn't bother me, there's plenty of slow erratic cyclists already, I don't see how these would be any more annoying.)

These are already out there, the question is should we waste Garda resources going after them (and prosecuting people for not having license/insurance would be seriously disproportionate), or should we just regularise/clarify their legal status.

[Deleted User]

Not sure if this was posted before:
ELECTRIC-POWERED SCOOTERS AND SKATEBOARDS FACING REGULATION

Minister has has asked RSA for guidance on how to accommodate these new types of "vehicles" that cannot be registered.

prinzeugen

loyatemu wrote: »

really - who is inspecting these tyres? or is just the CE mark?

Its more than the CE mark. They will be marked NHS or Not for Highway Service. Even if they have a E number (a circle with a E followed by a number, E11 for example), that means it has been made in the EU to EU standards. (they must have that to be road legal)

The other bit on the tyre will be a code that will give max speed etc. (ECE number IIRC)

It applies to other items also. I learned the law regarding that because of the tyres and helmet I used on my road-legal motocross bike.

Great fun getting pulled every few miles!

antodeco

Zurbaran wrote: »

Unfortunatley not.

It’s in the comments under this review https://youtu.be/FvrSUC_mtMc

I replied to it there. I know the spring he's talking about it. Just didn't really see how you would loosen it!

Zurbaran

antodeco wrote: »

Does it say the process to loosen it? Front seems ok now, but it may be able to be loosened massively more. Rear is very stiff. Not sure where to loosen it.

Thankfully no sparks from plugging it in yet for me!

Unfortunatley not.

It’s in the comments under this review https://youtu.be/FvrSUC_mtMc

antodeco

Jesus, this thread is nearly as bad as motorists Vs cyclists now!

ted1

cojomo2 wrote: »

Its not rocket science to legalise these, they are legal in many other EU cities..as another poster said, include them in the e bike exemption and remove the pedal assist requirement.

What European cities have legalised them ?
Was it the city or country ?

Teddy Daniels

cojomo2 wrote: »

Its not rocket science to legalise these, they are legal in many other EU cities..as another poster said, include them in the e bike exemption and remove the pedal assist requirement.

ok can I then get my pegged two wheel drive electric mountain bike ?

cojomo2

Its not rocket science to legalise these, they are legal in many other EU cities..as another poster said, include them in the e bike exemption and remove the pedal assist requirement.

ted1

loyatemu wrote: »

I think we're talking at cross purposes. eBikes aren't classed as MPVs because they have an exemption. I'm talking about changing the exemption so it also covers eScooters and similar micro-mobility vehicles.

If they're made exempt, they're not MPVs per the legislation and don't require tax (which would be €0 anyway), insurance, license etc.

There are other issues. Woukd they be allowed on footpaths ?

Is the road suitable for them, with smaller wheels they are at a higher risk of accidents due to pot holes etc. This could lead to claims against councils etc.

Would they be confined to cycle paths , how would this affect the flow of cyclists.

And so on

beauf

loyatemu wrote: »

why does that matter? If you're travelling at 25km/h then your kinetic energy is the same regardless of whether you are pedalling, scooting, or using a throttle. Currently the legislation says that pedal assist up to 25km/h is exempt. Just remove the pedal assist requirement. .....

It makes them speed limited. Try cycling a heavy eBike at 28kph with no assistance for any length of time. Most people can't do it. Most people are going to be physically limited to the speed they can hit.

If you see someone not cycling and moving its not legal.

eScooters are hitting 40~60kph. How do you stop that. How do you police it.

loyatemu

ted1 wrote: »

Removing the pedal assist requirement will make it be a MPV.....

I think we're talking at cross purposes. eBikes aren't classed as MPVs because they have an exemption. I'm talking about changing the exemption so it also covers eScooters and similar micro-mobility vehicles.

If they're made exempt, they're not MPVs per the legislation and don't require tax (which would be €0 anyway), insurance, license etc.

ted1

loyatemu wrote: »

why does that matter? If you're travelling at 25km/h then your kinetic energy is the same regardless of whether you are pedalling, scooting, or using a throttle. Currently the legislation says that pedal assist up to 25km/h is exempt. Just remove the pedal assist requirement.

I suppose theoretically someone could then drive an eCar that was limited to 25km/h, so perhaps some max weight requirement could be added. But UPS are already using these in the city centre, presumably classified as eBikes.

Removing the pedal assist requirement will make it be a MPV.....

loyatemu

ted1 wrote: »

The motor on bikes can only operate when the pedals are turning. It can propel the bike without the Rider pedalling.
You are under thinking this.

why does that matter? If you're travelling at 25km/h then your kinetic energy is the same regardless of whether you are pedalling, scooting, or using a throttle. Currently the legislation says that pedal assist up to 25km/h is exempt. Just remove the pedal assist requirement.

I suppose theoretically someone could then drive an eCar that was limited to 25km/h, so perhaps some max weight requirement could be added. But UPS are already using these in the city centre, presumably classified as eBikes.

ted1

loyatemu wrote: »

really - who is inspecting these tyres? or is just the CE mark?

people are overthinking this, they just need to be included in the eBike legislation. They don't need any more regulation than a bike, i.e. very little.

The motor on bikes can only operate when the pedals are turning. It can propel the bike without the Rider pedalling.
You are under thinking this.

ted1

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dublin-council-puts-a-spoke-in-wheels-of-electric-scooters-z0wxv2h5t

loyatemu

prinzeugen wrote: »

I can bet the tyres are marked "not for highway use". That another is a reason why they are illegal, not just the power source. Even cycle tyres have to meet a specification to be legal.

really - who is inspecting these tyres? or is just the CE mark?

people are overthinking this, they just need to be included in the eBike legislation. They don't need any more regulation than a bike, i.e. very little.

antodeco

Zurbaran wrote: »

Read a comment on YouTube that you need to loosen the suspension.

Mine now sparks when I connect the charger to it like I’ve seen in reviews of the zoom scooter.

Does it say the process to loosen it? Front seems ok now, but it may be able to be loosened massively more. Rear is very stiff. Not sure where to loosen it.

Thankfully no sparks from plugging it in yet for me!

prinzeugen

beauf wrote: »

I wish they would sort it out.

I'll probably get one myself soon.

As I said it would be a minefield. If minimum standards could be agreed for construction, lights, power output etc then they may become legal.

The problem is there are 100 different models made 100 different ways.

I can bet the tyres are marked "not for highway use". That another is a reason why they are illegal, not just the power source. Even cycle tyres have to meet a specification to be legal.

Zurbaran

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Indeed, especially with no insurance and considering the payouts in the Irish courts for accidents, staged or otherwise.:pac:

Life is too short to be worrying about that as well. Although since they aren’t insured there is unlikely to be large claims made as there is no insurance to pay out.

Calahonda52

Zurbaran wrote: »

Life is too short to be worrying about how legal a scooter that goes the speed of a bicycle is

Indeed, especially with no insurance and considering the payouts in the Irish courts for accidents, staged or otherwise.:pac:

Zurbaran

Life is too short to be worrying about how legal a scooter that goes the speed of a bicycle is

prinzeugen

grogi wrote: »

Do a mental experiment and replace the electric motor in them with gasoline one. It suddenly became a mopped, didn't it?

Or remove the starting motor on a motorbike so it can only be started with a push. No longer a MPV allegedly!

beauf

I wish they would sort it out.

I'll probably get one myself soon.

grogi

cojomo2 wrote: »

Latest on the subject
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rsa-to-examine-regulation-of-electric-scooters-1.3804729%3fmode=amp

And the most interesting piece:
"Most avoid a designation of a mechanically-propelled vehicle because they require a kick-off to start"

Do a mental experiment and replace the electric motor in them with gasoline one. It suddenly became a mopped, didn't it?