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Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

IanVW

New thread ladsðŸ˜ŠðŸ˜Š Any update on injuries for this weekends game?

Mod edit: Given how the last thread descended into chaos, we are going to leave that closed and start afresh

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Take no prisoners

PTH2009 wrote: »

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Any good performances PTH2009?
Sounded like Shane Bennett was back in good form today?
How did Aussie and Prunty play?

Prunty done well
Aussie ok but still selfish going for those long ranged points and putting them miles wide.

Barron made a big mistake causing the Dublin goal

2 Bennett's played well. Moran ok

Half forwards struggled, don't think DJ foran has what it takes very slow

You can add Stephen Roche to the players not having what it takes at this level in my opinion. Calum Lyons did well and Jack Prender had a good second half. Great to see the link play in occasion between the Bennetts. Very impressed with the Dublin forward unit although we helped them. Their close control and point scoring was far better than ours Aussie also made a lot of lazy tackles. Fergal Horgan must have got a new whistle and notebook that he wanted to try out. He was far too happy to blow up and booked several players when a free (if even) was sufficient. He reminds me of Nigel Owens in the rugby- he loves being the centre of attention.

mickmackmcgoo

chinguetti wrote:

To me, Glesson is totally disinterested in playing or at least gives that impression. Made one great run to prevent a Dublin goal but apart from that, far too often drove aimless shots for points that went well wide.

chinguetti wrote:

Clearly management don't trust the half forwards to win any high ball from the way they work puck outs. Nolan has a long puck out though so if we had someone to win ball, we could go places. Bennetts were good when they combined.

Winning high ball in forward line has long been an issue . Gleeson would be our best prospect there for winning high ball. A lot of our panel were tried under Derek and weren't good enough, they still aren't unfortunately. Our best 15 when all are fit is probably still the same as it was 2 years ago. Billy Nolan and Stephen Bennett being the plusses so far this year.

redlead

To be fair to Foran, the lad marking him was as big as him so he didn't have that natural advantage he usually has. Either way he was in his pocket all night.

We were atrocious in the first half but the second was a very good contest. I wouldn't worry too much about the result as its early days yet. We will improve a lot.

Aussie was probably better than some are giving him credit for. The quality of the ball he generally distributed was better than anyone else's. He also made a brilliant flick of a ball to prevent a goal after sprinting back. I'm not sure he has the discipline for centre back though, he was generally reserved for the whole game apart from the last ten minutes where he got frustrated and shot those stupid hail Mary's. Considering the quality of half backs we have i think we would be best playing him in the half forwards where we struggle.

DiscoStew

Lot of doom and gloom here after one loss. I’m not sure what people expected from today, management included. Dublin’s half back line are their best line. Dominant in the air, good users of ball and can pick off scores. Up against them we put Midget Roche, Jack Prendergast and DJ Foran. Foran has long been lauded for his ball winning but bar the Offaly victory this year it hasn’t been evident. I’m not sure Midget is going to be a starting option at any stage, I think he’ll be battling to make the match day panel. Jack is a hard worker and does a lot of selfless work, he definitely has potential but is not physically dominant either.
With Dublin dominating us in this sector it was never going to be easy.
On the positive side we’re scoring goals for fun which we haven’t done in years.
We started today without Stephen O’Keeffe, Conor Gleeson, Shane Fives, Darragh Fives, Philip Mahony, Tadhg de Burca, Brick Walsh, Pauric Mahony. That’s 8 of our regulars and we lost by 2 points, we also didn’t use Maurice, Brian O’Halloran is still out. Our panel overall is certainly stronger from this league campaign. Getting the balance right over the next few months will be the toughest task.
On Aussie, I think the work he has done himself the last few weeks to get in shape shows the desire is there. It’s not happening at present for him unfortunately. Looking at all the backs we have presently playing him in the forwards may well be considered.
I’d expect we’ll see the 4 Ballygunner lads start against Galway with a strong team. First game in Walsh Park this year, we want to start positively and continue that trend for championship home games.

chinguetti

DiscoStew wrote: »

Lot of doom and gloom here after one loss. I’m not sure what people expected from today, management included.

I expected a bit more cohesion. The team were sloppy throughout the match. I was in for the warm up and was frankly amazed how many balls were dropped during drills. That would give the impression that the little things aren't being corrected and therefore all the small things add up over time. Yes I know its only February but they would need to improve alot before they meet bigger, stronger teams come Championship time.

Jjjjjjjbarry

As far as I remember DJ Foran was excellent v Tipp in the Munster Championship game in Limerick last summer. He just needs some consistency and confidence.

Jjjjjjjbarry

As far as I remember DJ Foran was excellent v Tipp in the Munster Championship game in Limerick last summer. He just needs some consistency and confidence.

DiscoStew

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

As far as I remember DJ Foran was excellent v Tipp in the Munster Championship game in Limerick last summer. He just needs some consistency and confidence.

He has started every game in the league and Munster league i’m pretty sure.

Jjjjjjjbarry

Yeah I’ve been at most of them. Just highlighting that he’s actually performed at the highest level.

Mastermcgrath

This result was never going to really matter. This was always going to be a hard one to win anyway. Dublin had their wake up call against Galway last week, but we having only played 3 x McDonagh teams it will also take us a game or 2 against the Liam McCarthy teams to get back up to scratch. and for what it’s worth we almost won it right at the death only for that save. Mood would have been much different on here had that gone in.

Yes a few lads have been found out but also a few lads have put their hand up from what I can see. Isn’t that what you’d be hoping from the league?

With those 8 or 9 lads to come back in the side and with 2 fiercely competitive games to come v Galway and then a quarter final, let’s reserve judgement on real progress for another couple weeks.

TheScoringGoal

As some have said it is still February and I don't know if there was a hard training week done as we lacked sharpness and seemed sluggish.

Just two points, I'd agree that the half forward line lacks a ball winner. Could this be a role for Maurice?

I thought Gleeson was solid as a centre back. Our sideline never did anything about Sutcliffe dropping deep which worked in Dublin's favour. What I'm a bit disappointed with is that Aussie hasn't burst forward at all this year. Maybe he's not 100% but I'd hope it's not sideline instructions.

Jerry Atrick

Take no prisoners wrote: »

You can add Stephen Roche to the players not having what it takes at this level in my opinion. Calum Lyons did well and Jack Prender had a good second half. Great to see the link play in occasion between the Bennetts. Very impressed with the Dublin forward unit although we helped them. Their close control and point scoring was far better than ours Aussie also made a lot of lazy tackles. Fergal Horgan must have got a new whistle and notebook that he wanted to try out. He was far too happy to blow up and booked several players when a free (if even) was sufficient. He reminds me of Nigel Owens in the rugby- he loves being the centre of attention.

Wouldn't lace Owens boots the little ballbag

PTH2009

I thought the stadium today looked so hard too play on id imagine if ur not used to it. No wonder they have a great record there

1A is a bit of cluster**** and we could play anyone of those teams in the QFs

hurler on de ditch

Jjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

As far as I remember DJ Foran was excellent v Tipp in the Munster Championship game in Limerick last summer. He just needs some consistency and confidence.

He's been given every chance , along with o Brien, mc nulty, quiet a few of them getting a good chance , fair play to fanning on this one, some lads are just a bit of serious intercounty hurlers ,

Deise_2012

I'd expect Tadhg and Philip Mahony to start next week v Galway. With Kevin Moran settled at left half back then you could expect Aussie to move into the half forward line along with Pauric Mahony.

Stopitwillya

Deise_2012 wrote: »

I'd expect Tadhg and Philip Mahony to start next week v Galway. With Kevin Moran settled at left half back then you could expect Aussie to move into the half forward line along with Pauric Mahony.

That and brick wing forward.
Too strong lines.
Full forward line seems to be settled too as they are proving serious goal getters.

Giveitfong

A missed penalty by Stephen Bennett with the last puck of the game denied Waterford what would have been an undeserved win over Dublin in Parnell Park today. Dublin were unrecognisable from the team that simply wasn’t at the races against Galway last week. They were sharp and committed, their first touch and combined play were excellent, and they were very well organised, just as Cuala were under Mattie Kenny’s management.

Waterford had three key problems here. They were not nearly as sharp or focused as Dublin (although this did improve in the last quarter), they were unable to do anything about Danny Sutcliffe, who was man of the match by a country mile, and they couldn’t win a ball to save their lives in the half forward line.

Playing against the stiff wind in the first half, Waterford found it hard to get good ball into their dangerous full forward line. Long balls out of defence, including puckouts, were held up in the wind which gave the advantage to the defenders, especially Dublin’s tall wing backs Chris Crummey and Shane Barrett, who are very good in the air. What troubled me was that Waterford had no plan to address this problem, such as a short puckout strategy and working the ball out to midfield where players could either run at the Dublin half backs or play the ball in over them.

DJ Foran was at least challenging Crummey under the high ball, but after 20 minutes he was apparently moved out to midfield which gave Crummey complete control of his sector, frequently with nobody near him. This allowed him to send a stream of good ball into his forwards, while he also notched up two long-range points of his own.

That Waterford were only two points down at half time was due to two factors. The defence generally stood up well, given the enormous pressure they were under, while the full forward line were able to do damage when good ball came their way. Their first goal was actually a piece of good fortune, as Dublin’s normally reliable goalie Alan Nolan allowed Stephen Bennett’s mis-hit long-range free to slip through his fingers into the net. The second showed Thomas Ryan’s predatory abilities, as he ran on to a ball which broke behind the full back line to finish to the net. The third came from the Bennett combine, with Stephen setting up Shane who completed the job with expert finishing.

Half time score: Dublin 0-14 Waterford 3-3.

We expected Waterford to up their game after the break, but in fact Dublin continued to dominate in the first ten minutes of the second half, and when they goaled in the 44th minute it looked like Waterford’s goose was cooked. This came from over-elaboration in trying to work the ball clear in the half back line which saw Liam Rushe intercept and run through for an easy finish. This was the only time in the game when Dublin threatened the Waterford goal, whereas Waterford should have got six at the other end.

Waterford brought on Brick Walsh and Mikey Kearney for DJ Foran and Mark O’Brien at half-time, but neither had any impact. Those who have been criticising DJ Foran here made no mention of the fact that Brick, his direct replacement, was equally ineffective. However, with the wind at their backs, Waterford were now in a position to shoot from distance and get better ball into the full forwards, although on several occasions long balls in were overhit and went harmlessly wide.

Faced with a five-point deficit after 45 minutes, Waterford greatly upped their game and dominated the second ten minutes of the second half. Jamie Barron and Kevin Moran tore into the game, both shooting two excellent points from long distance. Waterford’s best forward move saw Stephen Bennett one-on-one with Alan Noal, but while he slipped the ball past the keeper, one of the Dublin defenders dived after it and miraculously prevented it from going over the line. However, two minutes later Bennett made no mistake when set up following a great run by brother Shane.

Waterford were now ahead and it looked briefly as thought their power play might blow Dublin away. But they refused to panic, stuck to their passing game and came back at Waterford to regain the lead, assisted by some dodgy decisions by Waterford’s favourite referee, Fergal Horgan. However, the latter did give Waterford a last gasp chance to win the game when awarding a penalty after a long ball landed in the Dublin goalmouth (with Dublin’s Darragh O’Connell being sent off as a result). Normally in these situations you would bank on Stephen Bennett, but his attempt to place the ball in the right corner was hit with insufficient force, allowing Alan Nolan to make up for his earlier error from Bennett’s free.

I thought that Austin Gleeson did reasonably well in the game, although his dodgy temperament was again in evidence with a stupid and gratuitous late foul on Liam Rushe, who was going nowhere out by the sideline. Callum Lyons also did well for someone making his first start for Waterford at this level. However, once again the big plus for Waterford was the performance of their full forward line, which scored 4-10 of Waterford’s total of 4-15. By contrast, we got just one point from the half forward line. In particular, Shane Bennett showed great sharpness and appetite, and his second half point from a narrow angle out on the left was, for me, the score of the game.

Overall, it was an enjoyable game played at a much higher pace than Waterford’s previous three games, and the see-saw final ten minutes were very exciting. Apart from the 46 scores there were 23 wides (12 for Waterford and 11 for Dublin). One worrying sight was Conor Prunty going off near the end with what may be a recurrence of the injury which has kept him out a lot in recent times.

Waterford: Billy Nolan; Shane McNulty, Conor Prunty, Noel Connors; Callum Lyons, Austin Gleeson, Kevin Moran (0-2); Jamie Barron (0-2), Mark O’Brien; Jack Prendergast (0-1), Stephen Roche, DJ Foran; Thomas Ryan (1-1), Stephen Bennett (2-7, 1-7 from frees), Shane Bennett (1-2).

Substitutes: Michael Walsh and Mikey Kearney for DJ Foran and Mark O’Brien (half-time), Philip Mahony for Lyons (53), Jordan Henley for Prunty (58), Pauric Mahony for Prendergast (61).

Deise_2012

Might we see TDB at full back next week actually?

hurler on de ditch

Stopitwillya wrote: »

Deise_2012 wrote: »

I'd expect Tadhg and Philip Mahony to start next week v Galway. With Kevin Moran settled at left half back then you could expect Aussie to move into the half forward line along with Pauric Mahony.

That and brick wing forward.
Too strong lines.
Full forward line seems to be settled too as they are proving serious goal getters.

brick over Mikey Kearney!

blueflame

I did not get carried away with result to date nor would i be overly concerned by yesterday. Dublin needed the win far more than we did after a number of unconvincing performances under Mattie Kenny and they were at home in Parnell park which is always a difficult place to get a result.

While we are still short a number of key players and regards Aussie I reckon he is a about four to six weeks away from full match fitness, and he will only get there by playing games.

Looking at yesterdays match our key problems were between the half back , midfield and half forward lines. _ Our full back line generally looked solid despite the amount of ball coming n on them and our full forward line tore Dublin asunder. Yes the first goal was a bad mistake, but this Dublin side had not yet conceded a goal, we scored four yesterday missed a penalty (which was probably a soft penalty to begin with) and one of the Dublin backs made a super goal line clearance from Stephen Bennett's "placed finish" which would have changed the complexion of the game entirely, and all this without our half forward line winning hardly any ball.

What I felt was more a problem yesterday actually was our failure to win almost any of the Dublin puck-outs, especially in the last five minutes when trying to protect a lead. NO only Aussie but Kevin Moran was very poor by his standards and looked off the pace, both of them being guilty also of hitting aimless balls on several occasions, which can often be attributed to a lack of fitness and just getting rid of the ball.

On a plus side Callum Lyons I felt done very well making his full debut, despite receiving what from my view looked a silly booking early in the game, (without having seen television highlights, as we can often miss things from the stand, it was one of many stupid bookings from a very poor referee who appeared to make some very poor decisions on both sides and likes to be center of attention)

Unfortunately we have a very extensive injury list which seemed to grow yesterday with Conor Prunty's premature departure from the field of play, i only hope is was just a small knock that will heal quickly.

Looking at the half forward line, DJ it appears is unfortunately a bit light weight and needs to attack the ball much more aggressively, he has all the hurling but needs to really get the bit between his teeth, always seemed to be a half second behind the defender and that is normally down to not being aggressive enough in going for it. Think Maurice would be a good option as a potential ball winner in half forward line,.

Re debate on Aussie as a Centre back i think a fit Aussie moving as he can around the half back line is a massive plus especially with his pint point deliveries into our full forward line. If he was moving at his normal pace Sutcliffe would not have had the freedom of eh park like he did yesterday because the opposition cannot afford to leave Aussie free either.

One final thing and i have been saying it now for a while, Barron needs to release the ball more, he got caught in possession yesterday trying to do a side step that he had no need to do, he was in a dangerous position on the filed and we had plenty of free me n available to take a relative simple pass, he did not need to try and sidestep and just become a bit predictable at times.

Next week is a different game and being honest looking at the way Division !a is shaping up it odes not really matter where we finish in the order of pecking. it is the performance next week is the big thing and getting our panel back to full fitness and up to speed.

Deisegodeo

I watched the Dublin game last week v Galway, massive difference in intensity and performance, they clearly targeted yesterday for the win. I'd imagine we have targeted next Sunday v Galway too, important to win at home.

Yesterday was disappointing, it would have been absolute robbery is we had sneaked the win in fairness, but just as we shouldn't get carried away with the wins of the last few weeks, I wouldn't be over the top about yesterday's defeat either.

Some hugely influential and important players to come back into the team over the next few weeks hopefully. Galway game is important now to lay down a marker for home championship games I feel.

deiseach

I really enjoyed the game yesterday. I must confess to being quite gratified that the Dubs fans clearly viewed us as a scalp. I'm definitely getting auld as well, which helps. Had we lost like that 15-20 years ago I'd have had a complete meltdown. As it is, roll on next week.

Bonniedog

deiseach wrote: »

I really enjoyed the game yesterday. I must confess to being quite gratified that the Dubs fans clearly viewed us as a scalp. I'm definitely getting auld as well, which helps. Had we lost like that 15-20 years ago I'd have had a complete meltdown. As it is, roll on next week.

Of course Waterford is a "scalp"! We don't beat you often.

Interesting views on here. Waterford obviously coming with a different game plan this year. Emphasis on goals a good sign surely? Early days but could be an interesting Summer for both teams.

DiscoStew

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Might we see TDB at full back next week actually?

He hasn’t featured since taking a heavy blow against Laois and coming off at half time, so may not even be fit. Interesting to see who goes in there if Prunty is out. No Shane Fives, Conor Gleeson, Darragh Fives, Kieran Bennett, possibly no Tadhg.. it’s a fair shortage of full back options. If all of the above are out I’d guess it’s down to Philip Mahony or Shane McNulty.

Jjjjjjjbarry

Deise_2012 wrote: »

I'd expect Tadhg and Philip Mahony to start next week v Galway. With Kevin Moran settled at left half back then you could expect Aussie to move into the half forward line along with Pauric Mahony.

Yeah I think that's going to be our half back line. The thing is that Aussie has only been tried at half back this year and based on current form probably doesn't get in there. So does Fanning persist with him in half back for another few games if his mind is made up that it's his best position or do what we've always done and move him around to try and fit him into the forwards. I've always thought that I'd put him centre back and that's it but now I think I'd move him wing forward for the year and let him do his thing. I'm fairly happy with our full forward line and if we leave the three of them inside, there would be space for the half forward line and if Aussie catches fire it would be frightening for any defence to have him running at them with two Bennetts and Tommy hovering. Mahony could float around picking off longer range scores. I think the packed centre didn't suit him under Derek and his playmaking style suffered a bit. I suppose next weekend will tell a lot about how we're looking even though still early days!

I wonder will Peter Hogan get a start?

carter10

deiseach wrote: »

I really enjoyed the game yesterday. I must confess to being quite gratified that the Dubs fans clearly viewed us as a scalp. I'm definitely getting auld as well, which helps. Had we lost like that 15-20 years ago I'd have had a complete meltdown. As it is, roll on next week.

Where did it all go wrong George

crobar

Any news on Darragh Fives being available anytime soon? He would be another big addition to get back on the pitch.

PTH2009

obv we wont knw til about 3.40pm on sunday who we will be playing in the league QFs but have a sneaky feeling it in involve Wexford or Kilkenny (who are 2nd/3rd in 1A and face off Sunday). Clare vs Limerick and Cork vs Tipp the other 2 games in 1A. looks like Score difference will give Limerick 1st spot even if they lose.

Away trip if were playing Tipp, Kilkenny, Limerick

Coin toss for home advantage if were playing Wexford, Clare or Cork

Jjjjjjjbarry

PTH2009 wrote: »

obv we wont knw til about 3.40pm on sunday who we will be playing in the league QFs but have a sneaky feeling it in involve Wexford or Kilkenny (who are 2nd/3rd in 1A and face off Sunday). Clare vs Limerick and Cork vs Tipp the other 2 games in 1A. looks like Score difference will give Limerick 1st spot even if they lose.

Away trip if were playing Tipp, Kilkenny, Limerick

Coin toss for home advantage if were playing Wexford, Clare or Cork

I think Kilkenny would be a good test that we're well capable of passing. We're better off avoiding sweeper teams for the moment as we're trying to change our own style and Wexford would just give us a sweeper. Negative Wexford :rolleyes:

Jjjjjjjbarry

Any news on Prunty? Would be good to see him v Galway as a good test of our full back line. Is Shane Fives injured too?