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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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...Ghost...

ED E wrote: »

No, its not.

There's an exemption for electrically assisted bicycles. Theres no exemption for electrically powered anything else. A scooter is not a bike. Its an MPV.

What about electric mobility scooters and electric wheel chairs? I know some of the former can be as fast as the scooters we are discussing here.

prinzeugen wrote: »

If the law is changed, it will need to be worded very, very carefully.

I would hope that there would be minimum standards, ie Cat M licence, lights, speedo etc.

But it could open a whole new can of worms.

Requiring an M license would be a step too far and would be unfair unless the same is required for electric bikes. I would be of the view that all cyclists who use the public road should have a license and pay a small annual insurance premium, but such a measure would never see the light of day, because it would be seen to discourage cycling.

Sono wrote: »

How do people that have them negotiate roundabouts?

Same way a cyclist does.

Garibaldi?

Can you just walk along side these vehicles if they run out of power or break down? (like you can with a bike). Or do you have to pick them up?

dilallio

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Can you just walk along side these vehicles if they run out of power or break down? (like you can with a bike). Or do you have to pick them up?

They can be walked upright, walked folded (one wheel on the ground), or carried.

antodeco

You can also just scoot along like a normal scooter aswell. I use a combination of this when I'm out and about on it. Coming up to lights etc, it's an easier to speed to handle.

cojomo2

Latest on the subject
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rsa-to-examine-regulation-of-electric-scooters-1.3804729%3fmode=amp

And the most interesting piece:
"Most avoid a designation of a mechanically-propelled vehicle because they require a kick-off to start"

beauf

A lot of media articles are not researched they just regurgitate what's on forums. Hence it's often wrong.

beauf

...Ghost... wrote: »

What about electric mobility scooters and electric wheel chairs? I know some of the former can be as fast as the scooters we are discussing here.
...

Mobility scooters, wheel chairs have their own class and are limited to very slow speeds in that classification.

What ones do you "know" are fast as these scooters. These scooters vary in top speeds some do 20-60kph.

cojomo2

beauf wrote: »

Mobility scooters, wheel chairs have their own class and are limited to very slow speeds in that classification.

What ones do you "know" are fast as these scooters. These scooters vary in top speeds some do 20-60kph.

Overwhelming majority's being used on public roads here are limited to 25ish kph, in line with legal e bikes.

beauf

cojomo2 wrote: »

Overwhelming majority's being used on public roads here are limited to 25ish kph, in line with legal e bikes.

eBike(Pedelec) give assistance only to 25. You can't move on electric power only.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec#Legal_status_of_pedelecs_worldwide

Scooters are not in line with this or any standard. Its that simple.

cojomo2

beauf wrote: »

eBike(Pedelec) give assistance only to 25. You can't move on electric power only.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec#Legal_status_of_pedelecs_worldwide

Scooters are not in line with this or any standard. Its that simple.

I think you misunderstood what I said. The speed most of them go is in line with legal e bikes.

beauf

cojomo2 wrote: »

I think you misunderstood what I said. The speed most of them go is in line with legal e bikes.

Last scooter mentioned is the Kugoo S1 top speed 30kph.
This one is 40kph https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108801308&postcount=363

Simple fact is on a eBike you have to cycle, as in put in physical effort to keep moving. You stop it stops.
On the Scooters you have cruise control, once at the top speed it will sit at the top speed without moving a muscle.

There is nothing similar about them.

prinzeugen

cojomo2 wrote: »

Latest on the subject
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rsa-to-examine-regulation-of-electric-scooters-1.3804729%3fmode=amp

And the most interesting piece:
"Most avoid a designation of a mechanically-propelled vehicle because they require a kick-off to start"

That is completely incorrect and the person from the RSA should know Irish road laws.

Means of starting does not matter as has been posted already.

...Ghost... wrote: »

What about electric mobility scooters and electric wheel chairs? I know some of the former can be as fast as the scooters we are discussing here.
.

They are classed as medical aids not vehicles. I think the only mention they get in the Road Traffic Act is about them not being allowed on motorways.

Zurbaran

antodeco wrote: »

Those who bought the Kugoo S1, have been doing some Russian research on it. A few recommendations, under where the battery compartment is, I've additionally sealed it from moisture. Put in an extra layer of Sugru around the compartment. The Russian sites say it's a precautionary measure incase you get caught out in really bad rain. They also say to seal the main display unit, but I'll leave doing that for now.

I also noticed on review videos that the front damoner moves quite easily. Mine wouldn't move at all. I sprayed wd40 on it and it seemed to free it up a lot. Again, the Russian sites say this is a good idea to keep on top of it. Also says to do it on the rears, so will need to figure that one out.

Unfortunately I've been unwell the last 2 weeks, so haven't really been on it, nor had the energy to really use it, but took myself 2 days just to do the above (it's a 10 minute job!).

Read a comment on YouTube that you need to loosen the suspension.

Mine now sparks when I connect the charger to it like I’ve seen in reviews of the zoom scooter.

grogi

cojomo2 wrote: »

Latest on the subject
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rsa-to-examine-regulation-of-electric-scooters-1.3804729%3fmode=amp

And the most interesting piece:
"Most avoid a designation of a mechanically-propelled vehicle because they require a kick-off to start"

Do a mental experiment and replace the electric motor in them with gasoline one. It suddenly became a mopped, didn't it?

beauf

I wish they would sort it out.

I'll probably get one myself soon.

prinzeugen

grogi wrote: »

Do a mental experiment and replace the electric motor in them with gasoline one. It suddenly became a mopped, didn't it?

Or remove the starting motor on a motorbike so it can only be started with a push. No longer a MPV allegedly!

Zurbaran

Life is too short to be worrying about how legal a scooter that goes the speed of a bicycle is

Calahonda52

Zurbaran wrote: »

Life is too short to be worrying about how legal a scooter that goes the speed of a bicycle is

Indeed, especially with no insurance and considering the payouts in the Irish courts for accidents, staged or otherwise.:pac:

Zurbaran

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Indeed, especially with no insurance and considering the payouts in the Irish courts for accidents, staged or otherwise.:pac:

Life is too short to be worrying about that as well. Although since they aren’t insured there is unlikely to be large claims made as there is no insurance to pay out.

prinzeugen

beauf wrote: »

I wish they would sort it out.

I'll probably get one myself soon.

As I said it would be a minefield. If minimum standards could be agreed for construction, lights, power output etc then they may become legal.

The problem is there are 100 different models made 100 different ways.

I can bet the tyres are marked "not for highway use". That another is a reason why they are illegal, not just the power source. Even cycle tyres have to meet a specification to be legal.

antodeco

Zurbaran wrote: »

Read a comment on YouTube that you need to loosen the suspension.

Mine now sparks when I connect the charger to it like I’ve seen in reviews of the zoom scooter.

Does it say the process to loosen it? Front seems ok now, but it may be able to be loosened massively more. Rear is very stiff. Not sure where to loosen it.

Thankfully no sparks from plugging it in yet for me!

loyatemu

prinzeugen wrote: »

I can bet the tyres are marked "not for highway use". That another is a reason why they are illegal, not just the power source. Even cycle tyres have to meet a specification to be legal.

really - who is inspecting these tyres? or is just the CE mark?

people are overthinking this, they just need to be included in the eBike legislation. They don't need any more regulation than a bike, i.e. very little.

ted1

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dublin-council-puts-a-spoke-in-wheels-of-electric-scooters-z0wxv2h5t

ted1

loyatemu wrote: »

really - who is inspecting these tyres? or is just the CE mark?

people are overthinking this, they just need to be included in the eBike legislation. They don't need any more regulation than a bike, i.e. very little.

The motor on bikes can only operate when the pedals are turning. It can propel the bike without the Rider pedalling.
You are under thinking this.

loyatemu

ted1 wrote: »

The motor on bikes can only operate when the pedals are turning. It can propel the bike without the Rider pedalling.
You are under thinking this.

why does that matter? If you're travelling at 25km/h then your kinetic energy is the same regardless of whether you are pedalling, scooting, or using a throttle. Currently the legislation says that pedal assist up to 25km/h is exempt. Just remove the pedal assist requirement.

I suppose theoretically someone could then drive an eCar that was limited to 25km/h, so perhaps some max weight requirement could be added. But UPS are already using these in the city centre, presumably classified as eBikes.

ted1

loyatemu wrote: »

why does that matter? If you're travelling at 25km/h then your kinetic energy is the same regardless of whether you are pedalling, scooting, or using a throttle. Currently the legislation says that pedal assist up to 25km/h is exempt. Just remove the pedal assist requirement.

I suppose theoretically someone could then drive an eCar that was limited to 25km/h, so perhaps some max weight requirement could be added. But UPS are already using these in the city centre, presumably classified as eBikes.

Removing the pedal assist requirement will make it be a MPV.....

loyatemu

ted1 wrote: »

Removing the pedal assist requirement will make it be a MPV.....

I think we're talking at cross purposes. eBikes aren't classed as MPVs because they have an exemption. I'm talking about changing the exemption so it also covers eScooters and similar micro-mobility vehicles.

If they're made exempt, they're not MPVs per the legislation and don't require tax (which would be €0 anyway), insurance, license etc.

beauf

loyatemu wrote: »

why does that matter? If you're travelling at 25km/h then your kinetic energy is the same regardless of whether you are pedalling, scooting, or using a throttle. Currently the legislation says that pedal assist up to 25km/h is exempt. Just remove the pedal assist requirement. .....

It makes them speed limited. Try cycling a heavy eBike at 28kph with no assistance for any length of time. Most people can't do it. Most people are going to be physically limited to the speed they can hit.

If you see someone not cycling and moving its not legal.

eScooters are hitting 40~60kph. How do you stop that. How do you police it.

ted1

loyatemu wrote: »

I think we're talking at cross purposes. eBikes aren't classed as MPVs because they have an exemption. I'm talking about changing the exemption so it also covers eScooters and similar micro-mobility vehicles.

If they're made exempt, they're not MPVs per the legislation and don't require tax (which would be €0 anyway), insurance, license etc.

There are other issues. Woukd they be allowed on footpaths ?

Is the road suitable for them, with smaller wheels they are at a higher risk of accidents due to pot holes etc. This could lead to claims against councils etc.

Would they be confined to cycle paths , how would this affect the flow of cyclists.

And so on

cojomo2

Its not rocket science to legalise these, they are legal in many other EU cities..as another poster said, include them in the e bike exemption and remove the pedal assist requirement.