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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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Zurbaran

antodeco wrote: »

Those who bought the Kugoo S1, have been doing some Russian research on it. A few recommendations, under where the battery compartment is, I've additionally sealed it from moisture. Put in an extra layer of Sugru around the compartment. The Russian sites say it's a precautionary measure incase you get caught out in really bad rain. They also say to seal the main display unit, but I'll leave doing that for now.

I also noticed on review videos that the front damoner moves quite easily. Mine wouldn't move at all. I sprayed wd40 on it and it seemed to free it up a lot. Again, the Russian sites say this is a good idea to keep on top of it. Also says to do it on the rears, so will need to figure that one out.

Unfortunately I've been unwell the last 2 weeks, so haven't really been on it, nor had the energy to really use it, but took myself 2 days just to do the above (it's a 10 minute job!).

Read a comment on YouTube that you need to loosen the suspension.

Mine now sparks when I connect the charger to it like I’ve seen in reviews of the zoom scooter.

prinzeugen

cojomo2 wrote: »

Latest on the subject
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rsa-to-examine-regulation-of-electric-scooters-1.3804729%3fmode=amp

And the most interesting piece:
"Most avoid a designation of a mechanically-propelled vehicle because they require a kick-off to start"

That is completely incorrect and the person from the RSA should know Irish road laws.

Means of starting does not matter as has been posted already.

...Ghost... wrote: »

What about electric mobility scooters and electric wheel chairs? I know some of the former can be as fast as the scooters we are discussing here.
.

They are classed as medical aids not vehicles. I think the only mention they get in the Road Traffic Act is about them not being allowed on motorways.

beauf

cojomo2 wrote: »

I think you misunderstood what I said. The speed most of them go is in line with legal e bikes.

Last scooter mentioned is the Kugoo S1 top speed 30kph.
This one is 40kph https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108801308&postcount=363

Simple fact is on a eBike you have to cycle, as in put in physical effort to keep moving. You stop it stops.
On the Scooters you have cruise control, once at the top speed it will sit at the top speed without moving a muscle.

There is nothing similar about them.

cojomo2

beauf wrote: »

eBike(Pedelec) give assistance only to 25. You can't move on electric power only.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec#Legal_status_of_pedelecs_worldwide

Scooters are not in line with this or any standard. Its that simple.

I think you misunderstood what I said. The speed most of them go is in line with legal e bikes.

beauf

cojomo2 wrote: »

Overwhelming majority's being used on public roads here are limited to 25ish kph, in line with legal e bikes.

eBike(Pedelec) give assistance only to 25. You can't move on electric power only.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec#Legal_status_of_pedelecs_worldwide

Scooters are not in line with this or any standard. Its that simple.

cojomo2

beauf wrote: »

Mobility scooters, wheel chairs have their own class and are limited to very slow speeds in that classification.

What ones do you "know" are fast as these scooters. These scooters vary in top speeds some do 20-60kph.

Overwhelming majority's being used on public roads here are limited to 25ish kph, in line with legal e bikes.

beauf

...Ghost... wrote: »

What about electric mobility scooters and electric wheel chairs? I know some of the former can be as fast as the scooters we are discussing here.
...

Mobility scooters, wheel chairs have their own class and are limited to very slow speeds in that classification.

What ones do you "know" are fast as these scooters. These scooters vary in top speeds some do 20-60kph.

beauf

A lot of media articles are not researched they just regurgitate what's on forums. Hence it's often wrong.

cojomo2

Latest on the subject
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rsa-to-examine-regulation-of-electric-scooters-1.3804729%3fmode=amp

And the most interesting piece:
"Most avoid a designation of a mechanically-propelled vehicle because they require a kick-off to start"

antodeco

You can also just scoot along like a normal scooter aswell. I use a combination of this when I'm out and about on it. Coming up to lights etc, it's an easier to speed to handle.

dilallio

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Can you just walk along side these vehicles if they run out of power or break down? (like you can with a bike). Or do you have to pick them up?

They can be walked upright, walked folded (one wheel on the ground), or carried.

Garibaldi?

Can you just walk along side these vehicles if they run out of power or break down? (like you can with a bike). Or do you have to pick them up?

...Ghost...

ED E wrote: »

No, its not.

There's an exemption for electrically assisted bicycles. Theres no exemption for electrically powered anything else. A scooter is not a bike. Its an MPV.

What about electric mobility scooters and electric wheel chairs? I know some of the former can be as fast as the scooters we are discussing here.

prinzeugen wrote: »

If the law is changed, it will need to be worded very, very carefully.

I would hope that there would be minimum standards, ie Cat M licence, lights, speedo etc.

But it could open a whole new can of worms.

Requiring an M license would be a step too far and would be unfair unless the same is required for electric bikes. I would be of the view that all cyclists who use the public road should have a license and pay a small annual insurance premium, but such a measure would never see the light of day, because it would be seen to discourage cycling.

Sono wrote: »

How do people that have them negotiate roundabouts?

Same way a cyclist does.

Sono

How do people that have them negotiate roundabouts?

prinzeugen

cojomo2 wrote: »

So what do people predict? Will the law be updated for these this year? Will Noel Rock get his bill through to have these in the same category as road legal electric bikes? Or will it go the other way ?

If the law is changed, it will need to be worded very, very carefully.

I would hope that there would be minimum standards, ie Cat M licence, lights, speedo etc.

But it could open a whole new can of worms.

prinzeugen

phester28 wrote: »

as i said. Press office say they are legal Rte say garda Left hand say they MPV. But in the same article it is admitted by the Dep of transport that they can not be taxed unless they have a seat. Yet legislation says all MPV have to be taxed and insured.

Yet these cant. You see the dilemma that would allow for a challenge based in Law

Not true. The electric handcarts Dublin city council staff use to empty the street bins have reg plates and are taxed. They don't have seats.

So it does not matter whether there is a seat or not. There is no grey area regarding these things.

They are illegal to use in public areas.

cojomo2

So what do people predict? Will the law be updated for these this year? Will Noel Rock get his bill through to have these in the same category as road legal electric bikes? Or will it go the other way ?

prinzeugen

mfceiling wrote: »

How would you go about taxing and insuring s small electric scooter? Has anyone actually tried?

It would be impossible to do.

You would need a Certificate of Conformity for it (which you won't get).

If you could get one you would need to make sure the scooter meets the minimum requirements for road use (lights, brakes, tyres, speedo etc).

You would then need to take it to a NCT test station to be examined. If it passed (which it wont), you would need to pay VRT etc and then you would get a reg number.

Tax it, insure it (if any insurance company would quote you) and you are good to go.

Did I mention the minimum cat M driving licence you would need?

antodeco

Those who bought the Kugoo S1, have been doing some Russian research on it. A few recommendations, under where the battery compartment is, I've additionally sealed it from moisture. Put in an extra layer of Sugru around the compartment. The Russian sites say it's a precautionary measure incase you get caught out in really bad rain. They also say to seal the main display unit, but I'll leave doing that for now.

I also noticed on review videos that the front damoner moves quite easily. Mine wouldn't move at all. I sprayed wd40 on it and it seemed to free it up a lot. Again, the Russian sites say this is a good idea to keep on top of it. Also says to do it on the rears, so will need to figure that one out.

Unfortunately I've been unwell the last 2 weeks, so haven't really been on it, nor had the energy to really use it, but took myself 2 days just to do the above (it's a 10 minute job!).

ted1

phester28 wrote: »

Cant find the garda press release at the moment but another article I just googled is here.

@ted 1 only a lot of the ebikes dont require propulsion from your pedals only that you occasionally turn them. The motor does 100% of the work. So all of these ebikes would be in the same category as you paint above.
https://goosed.ie/electric-scooters-and-the-law-in-ireland/

They’d be motorbikes.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/act/25/enacted/en/print#sec7

pedelec ’ means a bicycle or tricycle which is equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kilowatts, of which output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 kilometres per hour, or sooner if the cyclist stops pedalling;

****Note the last 3 words

I’d trust the SI website over an article by “Martin”

Founding Editor of Goosed, Martin is a massive tech fan, into movies and will talk about anything to anyone.Read more by Martin

phester28

Cant find the garda press release at the moment but another article I just googled is here.

@ted 1 only a lot of the ebikes dont require propulsion from your pedals only that you occasionally turn them. The motor does 100% of the work. So all of these ebikes would be in the same category as you paint above.
https://goosed.ie/electric-scooters-and-the-law-in-ireland/

ted1

cojomo2 wrote: »

From the link above:
. The legal position is that if one of these scooters can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone, and does not require pedalling or scooting for propulsion, then the scooter is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV)

Again, this is a grey area and open to interpretation. If I was up in court, id be arguing that my scooter does require scooting for propulsion (even though this is only initially)before a motor kicks in.

You can argue all you want but the fact remains, this is open to interpretation and a good solicitor would argue the toss and perhaps win.

Argue all you want but it’s defined in the law.
It’s the reason why the motor stops when you stop pedalling an E bike.

cojomo2

ted1 wrote: »

Any link to the press office statement ?

Last one here says they are an MPV.

https://www.garda.ie/en/FAQs/?id=4853

From the link above:
. The legal position is that if one of these scooters can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone, and does not require pedalling or scooting for propulsion, then the scooter is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV)

Again, this is a grey area and open to interpretation. If I was up in court, id be arguing that my scooter does require scooting for propulsion (even though this is only initially)before a motor kicks in.

You can argue all you want but the fact remains, this is open to interpretation and a good solicitor would argue the toss and perhaps win.

ted1

phester28 wrote: »

as i said. Press office say they are legal Rte say garda Left hand say they MPV. But in the same article it is admitted by the Dep of transport that they can not be taxed unless they have a seat. Yet legislation says all MPV have to be taxed and insured.

Yet these cant. You see the dilemma that would allow for a challenge based in Law

Any link to the press office statement ?

Last one here says they are an MPV.

https://www.garda.ie/en/FAQs/?id=4853

beauf

Do you have a direct link to the press office saying that. No some comment on another website.

phester28

as i said. Press office say they are legal Rte say garda Left hand say they MPV. But in the same article it is admitted by the Dep of transport that they can not be taxed unless they have a seat. Yet legislation says all MPV have to be taxed and insured.

Yet these cant. You see the dilemma that would allow for a challenge based in Law

ted1

phester28 wrote: »

here we go again. the law is clear but only in that it is outdated and grey. Garda press office released a memmo saying that they are legal

They said that the are an MPV.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1010870/

https://twitter.com/gardatraffic/status/890477022245519361?s=21

ted1

cojomo2 wrote: »

Thats your interpretation..hence its a grey area..open to interpretation.

No it’s. It my interpretation, it’s the law.

phester28

here we go again. the law is clear but only in that it is outdated and grey. Garda press office released a memmo saying that they are legal but IMO it is still grey. Until it is tested in court it appears that everyone will quote their "opinion"

ED E

cojomo2 wrote: »

Thats your interpretation..hence its a grey area..open to interpretation.

No, its not.

There's an exemption for electrically assisted bicycles. Theres no exemption for electrically powered anything else. A scooter is not a bike. Its an MPV.