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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

Public meeting in relation to the planned Burj Khalifa replica in Glanmire

https://twitter.com/oliver_moran/status/1097986616596070400

How rare of the Green Party to be getting involved

Is that the Green Party opposing high density housing.

questionmark?

RINO87 wrote: »

questionmark? wrote: »

Really? I would knock the whole lot. Find Oldlums and Southern Milling a horrible entrance to Cork. That whole area has so much potential for high rise apartments, offices, hotels, bars, boardwalk etc... That would be then mirrored by the same in Tivoli. The future is bright if the nimbys/an taisce can be defeated.

yeah, something about that building. Actually think it looks good from the opposite side of the river, the rest I agree is a mess.

Ok fair point. Maybe if it was cleaned up and cleverly incorporated into a new development it may add character. Maybe just blinded by the current ugly nature of the area.

WoolyJumper

marno21 wrote: »

If the Ballinglanna development was ok wrt road infrastructure I fail to see how this apartment block is the straw that breaks the camels back.

Realistically, improved bus corridors, better cycling facilities and probably some sort of train station in Dunkettle area with lots of bike spaces and maybe car parking spaces is what's needed

I'm not saying that the apartment block is the straw that broke the camels back. Glanmire is struggling as it is. I'm worried that work has started on Ballinglanna but there has been no update on the road upgrades since last August I believe. I just think the focus should be on carrying out the road upgrades before anymore developments get built.

While I agree public transport needs to be improved a train station near Dunkettle isn't going to make a huge improvement to the traffic going through Glanmire Village or that area near Riverstown/East Cliff Rd which can be chaos at times. Especially when people park where ever the hell they like. East Cliff Rd itself won't be able to handle the extra traffic from 600 new homes.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Is that the Green Party opposing high density housing.

Hard to believe isn't it. Maybe 400 homes on a greenfield site north of Glanmire with an access onto the M8 might be preferable.

WoolyJumper wrote: »

I'm not saying that the apartment block is the straw that broke the camels back. Glanmire is struggling as it is. I'm worried that work has started on Ballinglanna but there has been no update on the road upgrades since last August I believe. I just think the focus should be on carrying out the road upgrades before anymore developments get built.

While I agree public transport needs to be improved a train station near Dunkettle isn't going to make a huge improvement to the traffic going through Glanmire Village or that area near Riverstown/East Cliff Rd which can be chaos at times. Especially when people park where ever the hell they like. East Cliff Rd itself won't be able to handle the extra traffic from 600 new homes.

I agree with you on those points - but what I'm saying is that if the 600 homes at Ballinglanna are ok why is there such a fuss over the traffic generated from the apartments?

Shedite27

the beer revolu wrote: »

I would really, really hate to see R&H Hall go.
For me, it's an iconic Cork building with an ugly beauty.
It could be repurposed.

Totally agree. It's the Poolbeg Chimneys, Battersea Power Station etc of Cork. A docklands full of glass fronted apartement complexes is vey boring. Integrating buildings like this to the modern requirements is what will keep Cork great

WoolyJumper

marno21 wrote: »

Hard to believe isn't it. Maybe 400 homes on a greenfield site north of Glanmire with an access onto the M8 might be preferable.

I agree with you on those points - but what I'm saying is that if the 600 homes at Ballinglanna are ok why is there such a fuss over the traffic generated from the apartments?

I agree with that. I'm not sure people had much of a say when it came to Ballinglanna but I wasn't really aware of it until I heard it was approved. So I could be wrong on that.

I think its probably the idea of a 13 story building that scares people or seems bigger than it is. If it were housing estate of 63 houses there'd probably be less of a fuss even though it would take up a lot more land and realistically be a lot uglier. To be honest I bet the biggest issue for people is they are worried about their views...of what I'm not sure. The GAA pitch and Lidl's car park? Or they worried about a tall building sticking out of Glanmire.

Personally I don't mind that it's tall. Because Glanmire is in a Valley and surrounded by trees I actually dont think it will even stick out that much

rino87

Frostybrew wrote: »

There's a number of buildings in the Docklands which should remain. I'd also include the Marina generating station, and part of the fords building. Luckily the bonded warehouses future is secure with it's preservation order. The beauty of the docklands site is: because of it's size there is ample space for both modern new development, while still retaining some of the older structures.

Cork as a city has always had a rich industrial heritage which sets it apart from the Republic's other cities, which were really just large rural market towns. Even Dublin's main industries (Guinness, Jacobs) were a by product of agriculture and, as a city, it didn't begin to industrialise in a traditional sense until the 1960s.

It's a history that is only now starting to be celebrated, and preserving structures such as R&H Hall and Odlums would be a valid part of that process.

Yep the power station and original ford building are pretty cool and should be kept too

hans aus dtschl

WoolyJumper wrote: »

I agree with that. I'm not sure people had much of a say when it came to Ballinglanna but I wasn't really aware of it until I heard it was approved. So I could be wrong on that.

I think its probably the idea of a 13 story building that scares people or seems bigger than it is. If it were housing estate of 63 houses there'd probably be less of a fuss even though it would take up a lot more land and realistically be a lot uglier. To be honest I bet the biggest issue for people is they are worried about their views...of what I'm not sure. The GAA pitch and Lidl's car park? Or they worried about a tall building sticking out of Glanmire.

Personally I don't mind that it's tall. Because Glanmire is in a Valley and surrounded by trees I actually dont think it will even stick out that much

I think people's biggest complaint about that tower is that it's well outside the city and totally disconnected from it.

The transport infrastructure currently doesn't cope, and a high-density development can't be facilitated without some kind of significant effort at improving the infrastructure.

Ballinglanna didn't go through normal planning, it was "strategic infrastructure".

The "solution" to the infrastructure problems, in an effort to appease people over the Ballinglanna development was a part 8 plan consisting of 20 parts, which couldn't possibly work. And which hasn't been started.
This transport work can be summed up as:
- A new road through the centre of Riverstown, to facilitate faster driving from the Ballinglanna development to the shops
- Simultaneously pedestrianise the centre of Riverstown, call it a cycleway, and allow motor vehicles to drive on it 24/7
- A new "greenway" through a park and along footpaths which is an extremely low quality and meandering design, unlikely to be usable for anything but leisure
- Extra right-turn lanes in a number of locations, described as "improved pedestrian/cycling facilities"
- Parking spaces in Glanmire
- A new pedestrian bridge, deferred until an unspecified time in the future
- No public transport improvements whatsoever
Details can be found here:
https://www.corkcoco.ie/news/public-notice-part-8-glanmire-road-improvements-and-sustainable-transport-works

Riverstown essentially shuts down 3 times a day during the school runs, as there's 3 schools and 2 shopping centres on the relief road.

The place is like some kind of weird lesson in bad planning.

spillcoe

Agree that the Odlums building should be kept and integrated into the newer buildings but I really struggle to see any merit in keeping the R&H hall.

Brussels Sprout

I've always wanted the R & H Hall building to be torn down but reading some of the posts above has made me have second thoughts. It'd be some retrofit though considering much of that structure has zero windows on it.

chalkitdown1

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I've always wanted the R & H Hall building to be torn down but reading some of the posts above has made me have second thoughts. It'd be some retrofit though considering much of that structure has zero windows on it.

That's the part that I don't get with the adoration in here. It's literally a giant grey concrete block. It's one of the ugliest buildings I've ever seen.

Someone explain the appeal to me, please.

Even more perplexing is the amount of people in this thread that take issue with buildings with glass, as if it's a bad thing to allow light into a building.

AugustusMinimus

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

That's the part that I don't get with the adoration in here. It's literally a giant grey concrete block. It's one of the ugliest buildings I've ever seen.

Someone explain the appeal to me, please.

Even more perplexing is the amount of people in this thread that take issue with buildings with glass, as if it's a bad thing to allow light into a building.

If someone proposed to build R&H Hall today there’d be riots over it. I genuinely cannot understand public opinion in Cork.

neddynasty

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

That's the part that I don't get with the adoration in here. It's literally a giant grey concrete block. It's one of the ugliest buildings I've ever seen.

Someone explain the appeal to me, please.

Probably a nostalgia thing. You'd be driving down from Dublin after an All-Ireland final, coming in along by Tivoli and Horgan's Quay and you'd see R&H Hall and it was a sign you were almost home.

D'Agger

I don't have any issue with development in Glanmire but surely the underlying issue here is whether it's the right thing to allow Cork CoCo approve it prior to the City Co taking responsibility for the area on account of the boundary extension. Whatever about the building etc. - surely it's more practical to wait until the City Council are in place to approve it?

hans aus dtschl

D'Agger wrote: »

I don't have any issue with development in Glanmire but surely the underlying issue here is whether it's the right thing to allow Cork CoCo approve it prior to the City Co taking responsibility for the area on account of the boundary extension. Whatever about the building etc. - surely it's more practical to wait until the City Council are in place to approve it?

Particularly since it's only a few weeks away.

But who would get the developer's "social amenity" and "infrastructure" contributions then though?

who_me

TheChizler wrote: »

There's a new UCC bridge between Perrott's Inch and the lower grounds.

Kinda a clever design, if you ask me. The way it tapers in thickness towards the Northern bank makes it look longer and slimmer when viewed from the road-side. The arches on the Southern side are a nice feature too.

The bare concrete makes it stand out too much though, IMO. Maybe as it ages it may look better.

GavRedKing

I think its more nostalgia than anything else is the reason people would want it kept.

Its an eyesore, the whole area is but if it was to be knocked, theres a lot of prime space down there and pretty much a blank canvas, the only issue would be the lack of ambition to future projects on the site.

As many have said, take what has stunted Dublins docklands, learn form their mistakes and do our own thing and not stick to 5,6,7 story buildings in those locations.

Flesh Gorden

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The "solution" to the infrastructure problems, in an effort to appease people over the Ballinglanna development was a part 8 plan consisting of 20 parts, which couldn't possibly work.

Details can be found here:
https://www.corkcoco.ie/news/public-...ransport-works

I was looking for that list, had intended to add some opinions from a local living there, but never got around to it.

The PDF report is available here too:

https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2018-05/Glanmire%20Flood%20Risk%20Assessment_Rev0.pdf

Drawings for each project start on Page 57

Some local opinions on a few of the projects from the list:

No:1 Badly needed, traffic comes to a standstill if someone wants to turn right up Church Hill. As are the two proposed Bus laybys, for the same reason.

No 2: I'm almost convinced, they'll block the right turn first, long before the new access point to Little Island is complete.

No 5: Again badly needed, especially the addition of two lanes in either direction going towards Sallybrook from the city direction, for people turning at the T junction.

Also the addition of traffic lights, as most people coming from the city direction being too selfish atm blocking the yellow box to turn right.
That combined with people turning right towards Sallybrook, being afraid to pull out when oncoming cars are taking a left before the junction.
It's a vicious circle though, as you often can't pull out due to the yellow box being blocked.

The one part that won't be adhered to is the 'left in, left out' of the shopping centre.
Everyday people block up the pavements on both sides as it is when heading to the ATM and pharmacy, so I can't see the same people adhering to a LILO system.

I don't see any mention of what will happen to the bus stop, again that's another point where traffic comes to a standstill.

No 6: I think they mean, the junction by the kebab shop, further mentioned in No:8.

No 7: I think they mean what's locally known as the Barleycorn bridge. Disaster of a thing. It's a protected structure, but it should be leveled, esp with all the trucks using it to go down to Lidl.

No 8: I believe this is a plan to finish the road that would link Aldi and Lidl. Currently it's used as a rat run by the local teens drinking at the weekend.

No 9: Really don't see how cycling facilities could be added on this uphill, twisting road. Footpath is badly needed though, with the new developments and blind bends.

No 12: Not going to happen, with the number of funerals taking that turn, plus local opposition. Billy Kelleher owns a lot of land in that area, so I can see that being ruled out.

hans aus dtschl

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

I was looking for that list, had intended to add some opinions from a local living there, but never got around to it.

The PDF report is available here too:

https://www.corkcoco.ie/sites/default/files/2018-05/Glanmire%20Flood%20Risk%20Assessment_Rev0.pdf

Drawings for each project start on Page 57

Some local opinions on a few of the projects from the list:

I appreciate your effort here, but what you're looking at there may be a little out of date now I'm afraid, check out the chief executives report here:
https://www.corkcoco.ie/public-consultation-part-8s

I believe that's the latest.

questionmark?

The comments on 96fm facebook page regarding the Glanmire development are quite entertaining but it also shows the mentality of some. Glanmire is a 'rural area' according to many. Infrastructure is a fair point but the rest is just nimby stuff.

GavRedKing

questionmark? wrote: »

The comments on 96fm facebook page regarding the Glanmire development are quite entertaining but it also shows the mentality of some. Glanmire is a 'rural area' according to many. Infrastructure is a fair point but the rest is just nimby stuff.

Those kind of pages usually brings out the dregs of society, the types who would wait all morning to ring in to give about something trivial.

Now they've all got a bloody platform to vent.

marno21

questionmark? wrote: »

The comments on 96fm facebook page regarding the Glanmire development are quite entertaining but it also shows the mentality of some. Glanmire is a 'rural area' according to many. Infrastructure is a fair point but the rest is just nimby stuff.

Does someone want to send them a map of the boundary extension? Or is it just that they're being smart alecs until it comes into effect?

questionmark?

marno21 wrote: »

questionmark? wrote: »

The comments on 96fm facebook page regarding the Glanmire development are quite entertaining but it also shows the mentality of some. Glanmire is a 'rural area' according to many. Infrastructure is a fair point but the rest is just nimby stuff.

Does someone want to send them a map of the boundary extension? Or is it just that they're being smart alecs until it comes into effect?

I think many of them actually believe that Glanmire is rural. Can't accept they don't live in a village any more.

Roger Hassenforder

who_me wrote: »

Kinda a clever design, if you ask me. The way it tapers in thickness towards the Northern bank makes it look longer and slimmer when viewed from the road-side. The arches on the Southern side are a nice feature too.

The bare concrete makes it stand out too much though, IMO. Maybe as it ages it may look better.

I hate that bridge with the quad higher behind. It could have been a lot more aesthetically sympathetic. I reckon they were going for contemporary meets old. They got ugly.

namloc1980

I see the Metro in Dublin is succumbing to NIMBYs and moaners. The southern part of it is set to be abandoned due to protests. Like the Pana bus lane the moaners will win out. I genuinely fear that CMATS will be little more than a couple of bus lanes here and there by the time the NIMBYs and local populist politicians have watered it down. This is a real example of why our infrastructure is so poor. Irish society has zero interest in decent public transport.

WoolyJumper

questionmark? wrote: »

The comments on 96fm facebook page regarding the Glanmire development are quite entertaining but it also shows the mentality of some. Glanmire is a 'rural area' according to many. Infrastructure is a fair point but the rest is just nimby stuff.

No doubt it's the same bunch that believe having a city address will lower the value of their property. Now sure how that makes sense...

EnzoScifo

A NEW six-lane traffic plan for Wilton will be future-proofed for easy adaption, should a light rail system ever be established in Cork.

The layout of the new system — which includes six lanes, comprising bus lanes, outbound and city-bound bike lanes, and single traffic lanes each way — was presented to council members of the roads and transportation functional committee this week.

The first phase, at the Wilton roundabout and Dennehy’s Cross, will require the use of a portion of several front gardens along the western side of the road.

The plans also include the shifting of traffic-flow through the busy Dennehy’s Cross junction, slightly westwards, and the installation of traffic lights at the junction of Wilton Gardens.

The final planning stages, including a public consultation, will be advertised early next month, if the plans are approved by councillors at a full meeting this Monday.

Engineers will include preparatory measures to allow a light rail system to be established. A light-rail system is expected in the €3.1bn Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy (CMATS), which is due to be released for public consultation in the coming weeks.

Hope this bit is true. Might also soften the "blow" to the property owners losing part of their front gardens when they see their house prices rocket if/when the light rail is built.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Six-lanes-to-solve-Wilton-traffic-woes-735164c9-b7d5-43ce-9e31-c86d9fdf2000-ds

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I'd like for R&H Hall to be painted completely red, with a big 'This is Cork' written on all the sides of it. Or maybe the Cork crest put on it and white background.

whampiri

R+H building could be retrofitted into some really nice loft style apartments. It'd be expensive meaning that only the wealthy could buy them but it'd be a unique building.

I notice that nearly all of phase 1 of Crawford gate in Black Rock is sold. Place is already a bottleneck. 2 more phases and additional development in the old tile factory is going to turn the whole place into a car park in and out of the nahon point area.

Meursault

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I'd like for R&H Hall to be painted completely red, with a big 'This is Cork' written on all the sides of it. Or maybe the Cork crest put on it and white background.

That would actually be awesome. It’s a big ugly eyesore, as is. I don’t think it would cost too much to give it a lick of paint. If they went with a huge “This is Cork” message, all the better