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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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cojomo2

ted1 wrote: »

By go they mean you need to keep pedalling. Or scooting , it can only assist.

Thats your interpretation..hence its a grey area..open to interpretation.

ted1

beauf wrote: »

Yeah no mention of push to start.

You don't need to scoot to keep these scooters going you can engage cruise control and not put your foot down for 10km+

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%2520on%2520E%2520Bikes%2520and%2520Pedelecs%2520and%2520battery%2520Scooters.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjwutLy78ngAhVlpHEKHZBGA4kQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw29TJJNRn6KGWakqqk5upOH

The Road Traffic Act of 1961 at Section 3(1) (a) and (b), defines a mechanically propelled vehicle as:

“a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including;
(a) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,

(b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical, but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails;”

ted1

cojomo2 wrote: »

It's open to interpretation.

From RSA:
What is the law on e-bikes / pedelecs / battery powered scooters? Regardless of the type of bike, the rule is as
follows: If it can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone (i.e. it can go without you pedalling or scooting
it) then it is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV)

By go they mean you need to keep pedalling. Or scooting , it can only assist.

cojomo2

RHJ wrote: »

Yes a small moped or motorcycle does have to be taxed I can't be bothered to look up the exact rate right now, but I believe it somewhere in the region of €60 for the year I guess it could be taxed under that bracket.

I think a vehicle needs a seat to fall into the scope of tax.

The Enbalmer

loyatemu wrote: »

technically no-one is allowed use them on public streets, it's just not really enforced.

It will be the minute somebody is killed on one.

I see them around certain parts of Dublin and the way they're being driven means its only a matter of time.

RHJ

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Depends what type of insurance you are looking for. I am sure many of the smaller gadget insurance companies will cover for theft etc.

Tax? no tax band for them so no chance you can tax it. You could tax it as a moped I suppose, do moped have tax

Yes a small moped or motorcycle does have to be taxed I can't be bothered to look up the exact rate right now, but I believe it somewhere in the region of €60 for the year I guess it could be taxed under that bracket.

Shefwedfan

mfceiling wrote: »

How would you go about taxing and insuring s small electric scooter? Has anyone actually tried?

Depends what type of insurance you are looking for. I am sure many of the smaller gadget insurance companies will cover for theft etc.

Tax? no tax band for them so no chance you can tax it. You could tax it as a moped I suppose, do moped have tax

mfceiling

How would you go about taxing and insuring s small electric scooter? Has anyone actually tried?

cojomo2

RHJ wrote: »

I think by this stage it has been well established that they are either illegal or in some grey area of the law but unless you act like a complete idiot or generally behave like a dick while riding one then the vast majority of Garda simply won't care and will let you carry on your merry way.

The push ones are in a grey area as you could agrue the toss with a judge. If they are found to be illegal...if some idiot crashes into you ..their fault..you could be in trouble for using an mpv without the necessary documents etc.

RHJ

I think by this stage it has been well established that they are either illegal or in some grey area of the law but unless you act like a complete idiot or generally behave like a dick while riding one then the vast majority of Garda simply won't care and will let you carry on your merry way.

beauf

Yeah no mention of push to start.

You don't need to scoot to keep these scooters going you can engage cruise control and not put your foot down for 10km+

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%2520on%2520E%2520Bikes%2520and%2520Pedelecs%2520and%2520battery%2520Scooters.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjwutLy78ngAhVlpHEKHZBGA4kQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw29TJJNRn6KGWakqqk5upOH

cojomo2

prinzeugen wrote: »

How it is started does not matter. Another way of putting it is that if the scooter is capable of propelling itself and you by mechanical means only on a level surface, then its a MPV.

Its the same law that made those mini-moto bikes from about 10 years ago illegal in public places.

If methods of starting were all that mattered, you could argue that a motorbike that only goes with a bumpstart is not a MPV because you had to push it to get it going.

It's open to interpretation.

From RSA:
What is the law on e-bikes / pedelecs / battery powered scooters? Regardless of the type of bike, the rule is as
follows: If it can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone (i.e. it can go without you pedalling or scooting
it) then it is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV)

prinzeugen

cojomo2 wrote: »

The ones that require a push start you could argue the toss. I went by the gardai a few times, got a funny stare at worst.I don't think they are bothered (until you get involved in an accident ofcourse)

How it is started does not matter. Another way of putting it is that if the scooter is capable of propelling itself and you by mechanical means only on a level surface, then its a MPV.

Its the same law that made those mini-moto bikes from about 10 years ago illegal in public places.

If methods of starting were all that mattered, you could argue that a motorbike that only goes with a bumpstart is not a MPV because you had to push it to get it going.

beauf

cojomo2 wrote: »

The ones that require a push start you could argue the toss. I went by the gardai a few times, got a funny stare at worst.I don't think they are bothered (until you get involved in an accident ofcourse)

The petrol ones require a push start. They aren't legal.

beauf

cojomo2 wrote: »

The ones that require a push start you could argue the toss. I went by the gardai a few times, got a funny stare at worst.I don't think they are bothered (until you get involved in an accident ofcourse)

They pretty much all sorts of law breaking. That doesn't make it legal.

Zurbaran

Deleted User wrote: »

My point was more to do with the fact that I don't think they'd be suitable for younger folk who may lack the maturity to ride them.

A 12 year old on a decent bike would be faster than 99% of these things going full pelt. Admittedly they are not as stable as a bike. The issue is the faster ones will become cheaper and cheaper so there will need to be some laws around it at some point.

Shefwedfan

Calahonda52 wrote: »

not legal

Wrong choice

Sono

Calahonda52 wrote: »

not legal

Got that officially somewhere?

Calahonda52

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes

not legal

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

So these things are legal again ? just to recap !

Yes

antodeco

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My point was more to do with the fact that I don't think they'd be suitable for younger folk who may lack the maturity to ride them.

I'd rather them being on one of these, rather than the dirt bikes/quads I regularly see them driving down the wrong side of the road!

[Deleted User]

loyatemu wrote: »

technically no-one is allowed use them on public streets, it's just not really enforced.

My point was more to do with the fact that I don't think they'd be suitable for younger folk who may lack the maturity to ride them.

cojomo2

peaceboi wrote: »

Halfords started selling
https://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?storeId=10001&productId=1522826&categoryId=357001&langId=-1&catalogId=10151

UK only.

loyatemu

Deleted User wrote: »

I would find it most disturbing if Children under say 16 were allowed use these on public streets.

Or are they already ? I don't see it down this end of the sticks.

technically no-one is allowed use them on public streets, it's just not really enforced.

[Deleted User]

I would find it most disturbing if Children under say 16 were allowed use these on public streets.

Or are they already ? I don't see it down this end of the sticks.

peaceboi

Halfords started selling
https://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?storeId=10001&productId=1522826&categoryId=357001&langId=-1&catalogId=10151

cojomo2

prinzeugen wrote: »

They are illegal technically, but you will only get caught if you make it obvious that it has a motor.

The ones that require a push start you could argue the toss. I went by the gardai a few times, got a funny stare at worst.I don't think they are bothered (until you get involved in an accident ofcourse)

prinzeugen

cojomo2 wrote: »

"Grey area" at best!

They are illegal technically, but you will only get caught if you make it obvious that it has a motor.

cojomo2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So these things are legal again ? just to recap !

"Grey area" at best!

[Deleted User]

So these things are legal again ? just to recap !