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MPs quitting Labour & Conservative parties discussion thread

BobbyBobberson

Looks like its happening. What is the impact in all honesty?

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1097405369582866434

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Snickers Man

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That sort of image could be incredibly damaging for the party. Rhetoric like "cowards" and "traitors" does not belong in a respectable party of government.

Maybe not, but it is in the lyrics of "The Red Flag" which is still sung every year by all attending members at the Labour Party Annual conference.

I presume that's still the case; they certainly used to sing that song every year. Mind you in Blair's time and the epoch of "New Labour" there was an alternative satiric version

"The cloth cap and the working class
As images are dated
Coz we're New Labour's avant garde
And we've been educated
With tax adjustments we have plans
To implement the promised land
And just to show we're still sincere
We'll sing The Red Flag once a year."

ilkhanid

Folkstonian wrote: »

I bring up antisemitism because it’s prevalence in labour - and the complete failure to eradicate it - were central to this group of MPs decision making process before leaving the party.

The corbynite tendency were always very right on, vocal about the Palestinians (altho'. for the life of me, I can't understand why they deserve so much attention given the amount of genocide, oppression, famine and chaos in the rest of the world) and opposed to Blair's war but with that stance they acquired some distasteful bedfellows. Certain strains of ant-Israeli opinion segue into anti-semitism. Considering the rise of anti Jewish behaviour in the last number of years, any responsible leader should be alert for it. Corbyn is a weakling, not wanting to offend his bien piensant allies or the Moslem constituency. He should have crushed anti-semitism in the party the moment it reared it's head once and for all; he should have disavowed all associates that had even the slightest whiff of anti-Semitism off them,he should have taken pains to be above suspicion on this matter, but he prefers to wring his hands and look the other way.

marno21

Calling Corbyn "sub par" is being extremely kind to him imo. He's been a special level of useless to have a poorer approval rating than the leader of the dumpster fire Government at present.

Professor Moriarty

Soubry has removed all references to the Tory party from her Twitter biography. Seems like she might be preparing to abandon ship. Interesting times.

Havockk

listermint wrote: »

What this thread has superbly demonstrated is the he almost trumpian cult like support Corbyn has managed to whip up. He's a god like figure that can do not wrong.

Despite having failed to live up to any expectations that were made of him.

Frankly his a sub par poor far left politician who just happened to be in the right place and the right time of austerity on working class areas. But all that faith all that effort he's done absolutely f all with it. He's still trailing a ruthless despicable Torie party of hapless miscontents.

He will never lose a tiny portion of fanatics because just like trump the can't see his failings. The emperor truly is nudey.

Love how threads like this rake them up where they can twist and turn their own comments several times over within two pages and always believe that's what the said on the first page.

Good luck. He's drowning the party everyday he does nothing.

This is what political discourse has come to. Centerists getting upset that left-wing parties don't act like centrists.

completely ignoring the economic realities on the ground or the underlying causes that delivered brexit. Lads, this might be the UK today, but eventually, it's going to come to Ireland. The old political winds are changing.

Franz Von Peppercorn

super_furry wrote: »

I mean you joke about it, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Galloway does come back in now.

He well might. If the blairites leave then the party is automatically to the left of where it was. As for Galloway himself wasn’t he removed for being anti-war?

Havockk

ilkhanid wrote: »

In other words, they can't act with Good Authority and make it plain to Labour voters the disaster that Breixit is going to be. So, fudge it is,so?

That's the government's job and responsibility. Labour is the opposition.

listermint

What this thread has superbly demonstrated is the he almost trumpian cult like support Corbyn has managed to whip up. He's a god like figure that can do not wrong.

Despite having failed to live up to any expectations that were made of him.

Frankly his a sub par poor far left politician who just happened to be in the right place and the right time of austerity on working class areas. But all that faith all that effort he's done absolutely f all with it. He's still trailing a ruthless despicable Torie party of hapless miscontents.

He will never lose a tiny portion of fanatics because just like trump the can't see his failings. The emperor truly is nudey.

Love how threads like this rake them up where they can twist and turn their own comments several times over within two pages and always believe that's what the said on the first page.

Good luck. He's drowning the party everyday he does nothing.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Roger_007 wrote: »

The Labour Party membership is moving further left. The voters are not, if anything, they are moving to the right and some to the extreme right. That's the problem.

65% of under 40s voted labour. Corbyn’s Labour.
(And even if some voters are moving to the extreme right do you expect labour to follow?).

The policies of the modern Labour Party are to the right of every Labour Party manifesto until Blair. The centre (the old centre) as represented by Blair is dying out.

[Deleted User]

Hardly surprising they can't lay out specific examples very well when even this thread is ignoringe the two elephants in the room; Labour's growing reliance on actual anti-Semitic Muslims, and the Jewish population's extraordinary low thresholds for what it calls anti-Semitism.

Since neither can be talked about publicly, people will talk around the topic. Best to focus on the Brexit side of things.

ilkhanid

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Corbyn has fudged the Labour Brexit position because he has to, and I think he's done a reasonable job. When they are trying to appeal to Northern and Midland working class towns in England they have to acknowledge they were strongly Leave in nearly all constituencies.

What we call here in Ireland "Talking out of both sides of your mouth"

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

In fact labour can’t abandon their working class base, so they would always fudge Brexit.

In other words, they can't act with Good Authority and make it plain to Labour voters the disaster that Breixit is going to be. So, fudge it is,so?

super_furry

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Wait til Galloway comes back abd they expel Blair.

I mean you joke about it, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Galloway does come back in now.

Roger_007

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s a totally incorrect analysis of the situation. The reason labour is moving left is because the centre (the Overton window) is moving left, and to a certain extent right. The Tories are holding off their right flank with the their Brexiteers. Blairism is dead. Cameronism is dead.

The Labour Party membership is moving further left. The voters are not, if anything, they are moving to the right and some to the extreme right. That's the problem.

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

Funny, I don't remember Kate Hoey being readmitted after 34-years of being expelled. Corbyn's Labour is heading down the Trotsky route and the fact that Militant Tendancy's poster boy is suddenly back in the fold illustrates that perfectly.

I must be slow, for I'm not following. You are saying it's all ok for him to be a member of the labour party, but you personally don't approve of either his re-admittance or his reapplication?

Franz Von Peppercorn

super_furry wrote: »

Funny, I don't remember Kate Hoey being readmitted after 34-years of being expelled. Corbyn's Labour is heading down the Trotsky route and the fact that Militant Tendancy's poster boy is suddenly back in the fold illustrates that perfectly.

Wait til Galloway comes back abd they expel Blair.

Franz Von Peppercorn

super_furry wrote: »

Yes, he's in now. Which - and stay with me here - shows the direction that Corbyn is leading the Labour party in.

Where, to the left? I thought he was already there.

Labour has the support of the vast majority of under 25s, even the under 40s, and while the left always had an advantage there it’s extraordinary now.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-labour-youth-vote-under-40s-jeremy-corbyn-yougov-poll-a7789151.html

65% of under the 40s under Corbyn.

super_furry

Havockk wrote: »

Kate Hoey is in there, is she a trot too? You don't have a point with this, other than McCarthyesque hysteria.

Funny, I don't remember Kate Hoey being readmitted after 34-years of being expelled. Corbyn's Labour is heading down the Trotsky route and the fact that Militant Tendancy's poster boy is suddenly back in the fold illustrates that perfectly.

AllForIt

The Labour party are currently a joke. An old style socialist as leader and the gaff prone Diane Abbott as shadow home secretary etc etc. What a farce.

Once Corbyn goes all this overblown anti-semitism stuff will die down. What I see happening is after 29th March or on the day Britain leave the EU there will be a push to get rid of Corybn and his front bench and will hopefully usher in a come competent opposition. I think todays development is the opening salvo in that pursuit.

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

Yes, he's in now. Which - and stay with me here - shows the direction that Corbyn is leading the Labour party in.

Kate Hoey is in there, is she a trot too? You don't have a point with this, other than McCarthyesque hysteria.

super_furry

Havockk wrote: »

He's in now though, are you saying he shouldn't be allowed to?

Yes, he's in now. Which - and stay with me here - shows the direction that Corbyn is leading the Labour party in.

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

Not for 34 years because he was expelled from Labour.....

He's in now though, are you saying he shouldn't be allowed to?

super_furry

Havockk wrote: »

Is he not allowed to participate?

Not for 34 years because he was expelled from Labour.....

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

There's a huge difference between left-wingers and Trotskyites.

Is he not allowed to participate?

[Deleted User]

do people not read the media?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-antisemitism-jeremy-corbyn-jewish-members-abuse-jennie-formby-plp-margaret-hodge-a8774586.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47203397

https://www.thejournal.ie/anti-semitic-labour-4318718-Nov2018/

super_furry

Havockk wrote: »

What are you on about? Labour have been the political voice of the left for generations. How can it be shocking that lefties are accepted into left-wing parties? Getting to newspeak levels.

There's a huge difference between left-wingers and Trotskyites.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Roger_007 wrote: »

The problem with the Labour Party is that the party membership, who had the biggest say in leadership election, is way further to the left that the labour voters who elected the MPs. That is why Corbyn is out of sync with the majority of the Labour MPs.
Apparently many Labour constituency organisations have, if anything, moved further left than at the last election. The likelihood is that many of the more moderate MPs will be deselected for the next election and replaced with 'Corbynisters'. This was the likely fate awaiting the 7 who left today. They just jumped before they were pushed.
Many of the MPs who voted against Corbyn in the leadership election must know that their days as Labour MPs are numbered. What incentive have they to stay in the Party?
Labour is in a bigger mess than the Tories, and that's saying something!

That’s a totally incorrect analysis of the situation. The reason labour is moving left is because the centre (the Overton window) is moving left, and to a certain extent right. The Tories are holding off their right flank with the their Brexiteers. Blairism is dead. Cameronism is dead.

Havockk

super_furry wrote: »

Derek Hatton has been readmitted to the Labour party 34 years after being expelled.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/derek-hatton-back-labour-party-15850789

Perfectly fitting on the day that's in it and a clear indication that Corbyn is only interesting in steering Labour in a Trotskyist direction.

What are you on about? Labour have been the political voice of the left for generations. How can it be shocking that lefties are accepted into left-wing parties? Getting to newspeak levels.

super_furry

Derek Hatton has been readmitted to the Labour party 34 years after being expelled.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/derek-hatton-back-labour-party-15850789

Perfectly fitting on the day that's in it and a clear indication that Corbyn is only interesting in steering Labour in a Trotskyist direction.

Dyr

Varik wrote: »

Out of the blue?

It's the reason they said they left the labour party, so the entire topic of this thread.

And yet I haven't seen anyone put meat on the bones of the allegation of institutional antisemitism

Bit of a reds under the bed moment in The British Labour Party, ironically enough

Antisemites under the nightlight perhaps

Roger_007

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The Labour Party is gone? Huge if true.

The problem with the Labour Party is that the party membership, who had the biggest say in leadership election, is way further to the left that the labour voters who elected the MPs. That is why Corbyn is out of sync with the majority of the Labour MPs.
Apparently many Labour constituency organisations have, if anything, moved further left than at the last election. The likelihood is that many of the more moderate MPs will be deselected for the next election and replaced with 'Corbynisters'. This was the likely fate awaiting the 7 who left today. They just jumped before they were pushed.
Many of the MPs who voted against Corbyn in the leadership election must know that their days as Labour MPs are numbered. What incentive have they to stay in the Party?
Labour is in a bigger mess than the Tories, and that's saying something!