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MPs quitting Labour & Conservative parties discussion thread

BobbyBobberson

Looks like its happening. What is the impact in all honesty?

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1097405369582866434

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Franz Von Peppercorn

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Article 50 will be extended and an agreement along the lines of Corbyn's current proposal will be achieved, but there will not be a second vote.

I don't see that the Tories have to do that now.The splitters, if they succeed, are guaranteeing Tory hegemony.

It might happen if the remainers in the Tory party get a backbone.

listermint

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Article 50 will be extended and an agreement along the lines of Corbyn's current proposal will be achieved, but there will not be a second vote.

It won't. The UK will fall out no deal. And it will be Mays and corybns fault

And their supporters will be hammered.

Professor Moriarty

Havockk wrote: »

How. Backing the idiotic people's vote? Huge swathes of labour voters backed brexit. A CU proposal is the sanest on the table.

72% of Labour voters back a second referendum.

listermint

Havockk wrote: »

How. Backing the idiotic people's vote? Huge swathes of labour voters backed brexit. A CU proposal is the sanest on the table.

No they didn't . The majority of labour membership backed a second referendum.

That's multiple times you've played fast and loose with the facts. This twisting of the truth is no different than the erg liars and twisters on both sides and those that would make excuses for it. Like yourself

Franz Von Peppercorn

oscarBravo wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to make the case that there is no possible way an opposition leader could have capitalised on the Tory omnishambles better than Corbyn has?

Because that's a pretty extraordinary position to take.

What I said was that no labour leader could have opposed the referendum result.

Corbyn does fine on PMQ, but you have to watch that live. The media is not going to tell you he managed to win any number of points against the Vicar's daughter.

What he, or anybody else who might have led the party, can't do is abandon Brexit entirely. 70% of English and Welsh constituencies voted to exit ( and the vote was 54% to 46% in England/Wales), and thats where Labour wins seats.

And of course many, if not most, of those were Labour constituencies.

He has done ok. Now the Tories can go full steam ahead with Brexit in the anticipation that the left vote is split.

Tom Mann Centuria

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'm hoping that The Tories will crash and burn due to the ERG's constant undermining leading to an extension of Article 50. Then I'd hope that a cross-party consensus would be achieved around a very soft Brexit or a second referendum. If it also meant the death of the Tory party then that would be a bonus.

Well the death of the Tory party would be lovely, can't disagree with that.

Subcomandante Marcos

Article 50 will be extended and an agreement along the lines of Corbyn's current proposal will be achieved, but there will not be a second vote.

Professor Moriarty

Havockk wrote: »

Can't wait to hear how this new independent group is going to ride in and save everyone from brexit and a tory majority.

I'm all feckin ears on that one.

I'm hoping that The Tories will crash and burn due to the ERG's constant undermining leading to an extension of Article 50. Then I'd hope that a cross-party consensus would be achieved around a very soft Brexit or a second referendum. If it also meant the death of the Tory party then that would be a bonus.

Harry Palmr

It'll surely be Corbyn's legacy that a Brexit riven Tory party in charge of a country shedding it's manufacturing sector at speed won the 2019-2022 election.

Subcomandante Marcos

oscarBravo wrote: »

Jesus, you are trying to claim that. The mind boggles.

Wow, you seem to actually think a "peoples referendum" was ever an option?

Are you just being obstinate for the sake of it or are your actually that dense?

How does Corbyn's "Norway+" model of continued CU membership and protection of workers, guman and migrant rights make a worse plan than re-running a bitterly divisive election and wasting time while further splintering both main parties to the point of even bigger impasse?

Havockk

oscarBravo wrote: »

Jesus, you are trying to claim that. The mind boggles.

Then what? Spell it out how Corbyn could have pleased everyone and prevented this particular split.

oscarBravo

Havockk wrote: »

How. Backing the idiotic people's vote? Huge swathes of labour voters backed brexit. A CU proposal is the sanest on the table.

Jesus, you are trying to claim that. The mind boggles.

Havockk

oscarBravo wrote: »

I guess that's a "no".

Now you're just being flat out hypocritical. I expect better.

Havockk

oscarBravo wrote: »

Are you seriously trying to make the case that there is no possible way an opposition leader could have capitalised on the Tory omnishambles better than Corbyn has?

Because that's a pretty extraordinary position to take.

How. Backing the idiotic people's vote? Huge swathes of labour voters backed brexit. A CU proposal is the sanest on the table.

Hurrache

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Or that nobody in the labour party would currently beat Corbyn in a leadership election, or that Corbyn is currently the Labour MP with the highest approval rating?

He's got a 29% approval rating, but a 50% disproval.

Khan is only 2% behind on approval but a more respectful disproval percentage of 32%.

oscarBravo

Havockk wrote: »

oscarBravo wrote: »

...can we discuss the more salient point, which is just how bad a party has to be to have only recently scraped level with a May-led Tory government?

I've lost silly points before and owned them. No lost honour in that.

I guess that's a "no".

oscarBravo

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What about the repeated times I've pointed out that no labour leader could have opposed the referendum result.

Are you seriously trying to make the case that there is no possible way an opposition leader could have capitalised on the Tory omnishambles better than Corbyn has?

Because that's a pretty extraordinary position to take.

Havockk

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Eh, no. We don't know that at all. If I'm a Labour MP looking to Corbyn to lead me into a glorious future and ensuring I keep my seat, then I'd be keeping a beady eye on the polls. I'd be wondering how my party would be doing under a leader who wasn't so unpopular.

Can't wait to hear how this new independent group is going to ride in and save everyone from brexit and a tory majority.

I'm all feckin ears on that one.

Subcomandante Marcos

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What about the repeated times I've pointed out that no labour leader could have opposed the referendum result.

Or that nobody in the labour party would currently beat Corbyn in a leadership election, or that Corbyn is currently the Labour MP with the highest approval rating?

Havockk

oscarBravo wrote: »

Was I wrong not to note that Labour have just recently increased in the polls from "worse than a flaming bag of dog turds" to "about as bad as a flaming bag of dog turds"? Sure, if it makes you happy, I was wrong.

Now, when you're done basking in the glory of that victory, can we discuss the more salient point, which is just how bad a party has to be to have only recently scraped level with a May-led Tory government?

I've lost silly points before and owned them. No lost honour in that.

Franz Von Peppercorn

oscarBravo wrote: »

What about the repeated times I've pointed out that Labour appear incapable of doing better than barely drawing level with a Conservative party that couldn't find its arse with both hands, a map and a Sherpa guide?

If the highest praise you have for Corbyn is "he isn't less popular than May anymore", I think that speaks for itself.

What about the repeated times I've pointed out that no labour leader could have opposed the referendum result.

listermint

oscarBravo wrote: »

Was I wrong not to note that Labour have just recently increased in the polls from "worse than a flaming bag of dog turds" to "about as bad as a flaming bag of dog turds"? Sure, if it makes you happy, I was wrong.

Now, when you're done basking in the glory of that victory, can we discuss the more salient point, which is just how bad a party has to be to have only recently scraped level with a May-led Tory government?

No no you're wrong

Corbyn has a genius plan he's known what he is doing for the last two years. And will unveil his master plan in march in the final week.

You just wait and see

Professor Moriarty

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Anyone know what Vince cables approval is? Out of interest

Averaging 20% in 2019.

MrMusician18

Havockk wrote: »

We both know that the only poll worth talking about is the last.

Anyone know what Vince cables approval is? Out of interest

oscarBravo

Havockk wrote: »

You accept you were wrong then?

Was I wrong not to note that Labour have just recently increased in the polls from "worse than a flaming bag of dog turds" to "about as bad as a flaming bag of dog turds"? Sure, if it makes you happy, I was wrong.

Now, when you're done basking in the glory of that victory, can we discuss the more salient point, which is just how bad a party has to be to have only recently scraped level with a May-led Tory government?

Professor Moriarty

Havockk wrote: »

We both know that the only poll worth talking about is the last.

Eh, no. We don't know that at all. If I'm a Labour MP looking to Corbyn to lead me into a glorious future and ensuring I keep my seat, then I'd be keeping a beady eye on the polls. I'd be wondering how my party would be doing under a leader who wasn't so unpopular.

Hurrache

Havockk wrote: »

We both know that the only poll worth talking about is the last.

The one that projects a gain of seats for the Conservatives from last week or the week before?

The truth of the matter is that British politics is in a ridiculously bad state at the moment on all sides and it's not going to get better any time soon, least of all for their electorate.

Havockk

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

An average of all polls conducted in 2019 have May's approval rating at 31% and Corbyn's at 24%. That's how bad he is.

We both know that the only poll worth talking about is the last.

Havockk

Hurrache wrote: »

So you're saying the polls are wrong, they're looking like they will win the next election because they're doing such a great job with the Brexit crisis?

Because otherwise I'm still struggling to see what the relevancy here is other than to deflect.

Nothing to deflect. The context of the conversation here is about 7 MP's leaving the opposition party, right in the midst of a major constitutional crisis. The effects of which are to make a bad situation worse.... but we can console ourselves by calling unprincipled people principled.

No feckin wonder we are in the current mess.

Professor Moriarty

Havockk wrote: »

You accept you were wrong then?

An average of all polls conducted in 2019 have May's approval rating at 31% and Corbyn's at 24%. That's how bad he is.