MrMusician18 wrote: » What media does it keep appearing in? Right wing press who hate him and the centre left guardian.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » And the 52% voted for the Tories to sort it out based on Tory party politics. Or maybe...I don't know...reasons.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » Corbyn's Labour and anti-Semitism is a bit like UKIP and racism. It keeps coming up too often to simply believe that it's a hit job by the media. My primary issue with Labour is over Brexit, funnily enough but the anti-Semitism problem is still significiant in the eyes of many as Labour and the left are supposed to be the champions of the downtrodden. I don't know enough about Israel-Palestine to go extrapolating conclusions on that front but Corbyn has had years by now to fix this and as far as I can tell, he hasn't.
Havockk wrote: » The Tories are doing all the negotiating, inhouse.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » Corbyn's Labour and anti-Semitism is a bit like UKIP and racism. It keeps coming up too often to simply believe that it's a hit job by the media.
My primary issue with Labour is over Brexit, funnily enough but the anti-Semitism problem is still significiant in the eyes of many as Labour and the left are supposed to be the champions of the downtrodden. I don't know enough about Israel-Palestine to go extrapolating conclusions on that front but Corbyn has had years by now to fix this and as far as I can tell, he hasn't.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » What kind of Leave did they vote for?
MrMusician18 wrote: » Should it be stopped? They did vote to leave after all. Why not give the majority what they want?
Leroy42 wrote: » And that was always Corbyn's plan. Delay, delay and delay until the point was reached when people could claim that they would love to support a 2nd ref but its simply too late.
Folkstonian wrote: » Who do you think they are meant to be helping? They cannot help the Labour Party. It’s gone. It’s done. It’s in the hands of extremists and they wont be letting go. They’ve been trying to help by speaking out about certain issues for over three years and have achieved nothing but to make themselves targets of some pretty disgraceful abuse. They’ve left the Labour Party because it no longer reflects their values, their morals or their politics. They can now speak and vote freely on important issues and not be condemned by association with what’s going on in British Labour.
MrMusician18 wrote: » Indeed. That is the issue, he's a leaver or a tepid remainer at best. Posters here need to be honest that that is their issue with him. The anti semitism nonsense is just an emotive ploy to get rid of him because the centre fundamentally disagrees with him on policy. The problem is they don't know what they are for and if they could figure that out, there's not enough of them.
Havockk wrote: » And back to teh main issue, how is the leaving of these 7 members going to help anything?
Havockk wrote: » The 1st Ref broke everything. For anyone to think a 2nd Ref would fix anything is conning themselves.
listermint wrote: » [/B] He is not remain at all, Lets cut to the chase. There are people that will make excuses for the man constantly regardless of the evidence. Everyday brexit gets closer and he says nothing of note demonstrates his feelings on the EU. He is terrible.
Leroy42 wrote: » The polls are saying that Labour would lose seats in the next election. That is not holding. But, since they lost the last election, holding was never the plan. They needed significant gains. And they are being helped by a completely split governing power. So by any measure, Corbyn is doing a terrible job. Their only hope, and it is not based on anything but hope, is that Corbyn can repeat the same trick he did in 2017 (which, I repeat, he failed to win, he simply did less bad than expected!). but clearly Corbyn gained for a more balanced media in the GE 2017 campaign, when people got to see and hear Corbyn. But one then needs to take the view that people have already forgotten the real Corbyn again and will only remember when a new GE campaign starts. That, IMO, is very unlikely.
Havockk wrote: » A 2ndRef mandate is going to do F-All for Labour at this point. Brexit can't be stopped, it's too late.
listermint wrote: » The MEMBERSHIP voted for a Second Referendum. Corbyn has been actively fighting this. Stop trying to rewrite history. This is only in the last few months lads. These points are easily disproved. Corbyn's labour is not acting democratically. Which is the platform he launched himself on. And the leadership is going along with it. Awful setup, they are enabling the Tories with Glee... Killing jobs along the way.
oscarBravo wrote: » I'm not brushing over it. I'll reiterate my point: polling neck and neck with the disaster-of-old-testament-proportions that is the current Tory party is, and can only be seen as, an abject failure of leadership.
MrMusician18 wrote: » He has held it, but to be fair not built on it. Remember they were expected to be trounced at the last election, to lose by over 100 seats. And the reason he hasn't been able to build stopped is because a good number of MPs come from leave constituencies. There are a lot of myths being pedalled as fact about Corbyn in this thread - with the real issue is that he is not pro remain enough for some posters.
Havockk wrote: » I pointed out to you that on Monday both were polling exactly the same. You just brushed over it.
MrMusician18 wrote: » He has held it, but to be fair not built on it. Remember they were expected to be trounced at the last election, to lose by over 100 seats. And the reason he hasn't been able to build stopped is because a good number of MPs come from leave constituencies.There are a lot of myths being pedalled as fact about Corbyn in this thread - with the real issue is that he is not pro remain enough for some posters.
Yer Da sells Avon wrote: » Losing seven centre-right MPs is hardly the break-up of the party. The anti-Semitism nonsense exists solely because the 'IRA supporter', 'Russian spy' smears didn't work. The idea that Corbyn, a life-long anti-racism campaigner, is an anti-Semite is absolutely ludicrous. They were right to leave - because they don't support the socialist policies that attracted 12.8 million voters in 2017 - they should be honest and cite those ideological differences as the reason, rather than repeating the same well-rehearsed lies about anti-Semitism.
quokula wrote: » Labour don't have the numbers in parliament to stop what's happening. What exactly could they have done differently? They've voted against the Tories every step of the way. And Corbyn's letter last week proposing staying in the Customs Union and Single Market was widely welcomed by people like Tusk and Verhofstadt. It's a blatant mistruth to try and paint Labour's Brexit policy as anything close to the Tories. But yes, it's true that he hasn't openly campaigned for a second referendum that has no chance of happening and would disillusion many labour voters (but not their membership)
Havockk wrote: » a 2nd ref was never going to fly. Only way was going to be via a GE but teh Tories refused that pressure. Besides, as a remainer I'm also not completely unaware that a lot of LAb voters supported Brexit which makes it very delicate for leadership to organise a consensus. Corbyn as always backed a CU, something the EU themselves have pointed toward as a possible solution but it all falls on deaf ears. Ultra socialism? Like nationalising railways? Give me a break. I wish the consequences were not so dire, otherwise, I could almost enjoy this centerist complete meltdown.
Leroy42 wrote: » But if that were true then surely Labour would be riding high in the polls now? He got an uplift during the election for sure, but it should be very worrying that he was not able to hold that, or since the Tories are such a mess, capitalise on it. All the Labour have left at this stage is hope. Hope that what happened last time (and btw people seem to have forgotten that Labour still lost) will happen again. But people are now very aware of Corbyn and what he stands for and seemingly are no longer feeling like they did in 2017.
oscarBravo wrote: » Would those be the Labour supporters who overwhelmingly back a second referendum, and who are being pointedly ignored by the party leadership? Politicians change parties between elections. It happens. If their constituents think it's an unforgivable breach of trust, they won't be re-elected. You're reframing this as a rejection of left-wing policy. This isn't about rejecting left-wing leadership of Labour; it's about rejecting an abject failure of leadership of Labour.
listermint wrote: » What like shepherding the Tories into a brexit deal which has already killed thousands of labour jobs and will continue to risk thousands more. Good Shepherding their Jeremy , ace job. This is ultra Socialism, Its not social democracy which is demonstrated cleanly and clearly by the leadership ignoring their membership.
