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Best way to learn Irish

Ubbquittious

What would be the best way to breathe some new life into one's cupla focal. Like most I "learned" Irish in school but very little of it stuck. I try to listen to RnaG and TG4 but that alone won't do it I'd say.

Any methods people here have had success with. Classes, hanging out in the Gaeltacht, duolingo?

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[Deleted User]

sabrewolfe wrote: »

A few things I've found helpful when it comes to re-learning Irish is to try and use it as often as possible. Using the cupla focal every day makes a big difference even if its just little phrases like "Tá bealach fada romhat" (You have a long road before you). TG4 have some great documentaries in Irish that are subtitled and Ros Na Run is handy for picking up some phrases and practising your listening comprehension.

I've also been using two apps on my phone which I found extremely helpful. Duolingo is great for your comprehension of the written language and constructing sentences and getting to grips with things like possessive phrases, and things like eclipsis and lenition (things that we have automatically picked up in English but generally don't even know the name for when it comes to learning them).

Another great application is Mango languages, personally I tend to listen to this as I'm walking into work on headphones, things are broken down into lessons, like greetings, directions, buying things in the shops etc. It might seem odd to be walking down the road repeating things like "an bhfuil teach tábhairne anseo" (is there a pub there) but it really does help with getting your head back around the basics, and giving you some practical phrases for when your in a Gaeltacht area. Access to this is free for anyone who is a member of any library in Ireland.

Perseverance is the key, do something in Irish everyday even if its trying to make sense of street signs or the Irish Language version of a name or locality.

Go n-éirí leat!

This is the best advice I've seen in this thread, speaking as someone who only started learning Irish from Leaving Cert onwards. It's interesting to note that you use apps, but also place heavy reliance on speaking the language -- in my view, that's the key to any successful grasp of Irish.

I tried lots of approaches - apps, buying Irish newspapers, listening to RnaG (hadn't a clue what they were talking about, meself; with their Ulster and Connacht canuinti). It was only when I began to speak the language, and was confident that my minor mistakes weren't catastrophes, that I began to feel confident using Irish.

If I could give one piece of advice to prospective Irish-language speakers, it's that there is nothing wrong with making mistakes. Everyone does it, even native speakers.

topper75

doolox wrote: »

...Monoglot English speakers were treated like dirt and punished severely by fanatical Irish speaking teachers who did not realise the level of difficulty in learning Irish and assumed that the English speaking pupils were being difficult and awkward about acquiring for what to them was a completely alien language. ...

Generally a good post there. Unfortunately for the bit I have quoted above, you have resorted to irrational hyperbole - treated like dirt?

If a teacher gives more respect to a pupil who has mastered geometry as well as arithmetic than to a pupil who has only grasped arithmetic, do we feel that the teacher is treating the second pupil 'like dirt' or is the teacher merely acknowledging a differential in ability?

sabrewolfe

A few things I've found helpful when it comes to re-learning Irish is to try and use it as often as possible. Using the cupla focal every day makes a big difference even if its just little phrases like "Tá bealach fada romhat" (You have a long road before you). TG4 have some great documentaries in Irish that are subtitled and Ros Na Run is handy for picking up some phrases and practising your listening comprehension.

I've also been using two apps on my phone which I found extremely helpful. Duolingo is great for your comprehension of the written language and constructing sentences and getting to grips with things like possessive phrases, and things like eclipsis and lenition (things that we have automatically picked up in English but generally don't even know the name for when it comes to learning them).

Another great application is Mango languages, personally I tend to listen to this as I'm walking into work on headphones, things are broken down into lessons, like greetings, directions, buying things in the shops etc. It might seem odd to be walking down the road repeating things like "an bhfuil teach tábhairne anseo" (is there a pub there) but it really does help with getting your head back around the basics, and giving you some practical phrases for when your in a Gaeltacht area. Access to this is free for anyone who is a member of any library in Ireland.

Perseverance is the key, do something in Irish everyday even if its trying to make sense of street signs or the Irish Language version of a name or locality.

Go n-éirí leat!

topper75

One difficulty is the chasm between 'standardised' school Irish (makey-uppy Irish) and actual Irish spoken in Gaeltachts in all their dialect glory that you hear on RnaG and TG4.

A book which helped me bridge this to a fair extent by McGraw Hill is titled Speaking Irish - An Ghaeilge Bheo, Taking your conversation beyond basics. Loads of videos included and real transcriptions including every um and ah.

Might be in your local library. If not- request it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Pretty sure there are plenty of Irish speaking social events going on.

The trick is not to be too worried about making mistakes or that the Irish-speaker is going to judge you. Most of them want to encourage speakers as much as possible and will probably extra patient if asked.

Chancer3001

Op - how would you go about learning chinese or italian?

Speak it. Try listen to it. Find others who speak it.

Oh nobody speaks it blah blah blah there are 100s of gaelscoils where everybody, students and teachees alike are fluent . Colleges have irish conversation meetups

JohnnyFlash

aloneforever99 wrote: »

What if the nearest exit is stage right?

Whatever works. It’s extremely important you just find a quick way of getting away from them. Even an open window is a valid option if cornered.

Suckler

upinsmoke wrote: »

Should be stop been thought after primary school and be swapped with an IT class.

That is a lot of stupidity for one sentence.

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Any methods people here have had success with. Classes, hanging out in the Gaeltacht, duolingo?

I picked up a few books for children in Galway. As Gaelige in the front and English translation at the back which was very helpful.

Sabre0001

Hoping to make the effort to relearn a cúpla focal again. Duolingo app seems useful (or more specifically the desktop portal as it gets you to write words rather than just match pairs / the right word).

Watching and listening to Irish content would be good - even better if you can find something with subtitles. I have seen someone point out that it's best if you can get something subtitled in the language you are trying to learn (i.e. listen and read Irish - sometimes translations might not be accurate).

Use online forums (there's Teach na nGealt here) and also in-person meetups (Meetup.com would be a good place to check out).

Badly Drunk Boy

retalivity wrote: »

Listening to RnaG helps...after a few weeks i found myself understanding a lot more. And im no longer translating to english in my head - i'm 'thinking' in Irish.

In the mid-90s, after finishing college, I found myself living alone and without a telly! :eek: I started to listen to RnaG sometimes and thought it was a great way to learn the language. My favourite programme was a general knowledge quiz. Even when I didn't fully understand the question, I'd usually get it right. :cool: And yeah, I'd find myself thinking in Irish too.

I've never tried the MeetUp groups but I'd say they'd be good for this purpose. There's nothing like using a language in real life situations to become part of it.

aloneforever99

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

If you find yourself in the company of one or more of these interminable bores, then I suggest you stand up, bid them a slán agat, and make a rapid stage left through whatever exit is closest.

What if the nearest exit is stage right?

Ferris_Bueller

KevRossi wrote: »

A couple of tips on learning languages:

To speak it better and get a better vocabulary; speak/think to yourself in Irish during the day. So instead of thinking to yourself
'I'm hungry, will I go to McDonalds or will I make myself a sandwich?"
start to say
"
"Tá ocras orm, an dtéann mé go McDonalds nó an ndéanfaidh mé ceapaire orm féin?""

This way you'll have the words ready if in a conversation, at least for the basics anyway.

For reading, just buy kids books. Start off on basic stuff for 5 year olds and move up. Books with a lot of conversation are better.

For listening then the radio is excellent, but try to avoid the political programmes. The hourly news is good, you will have an idea of the story anyway and will be able to make out a lot of words. The same story will be on the radio for a few hours, if not days, so you'll get a good idea of all the words used.

And look for local conversation groups, MeetUp, libraries, Irish social clubs.... there's a couple in every town. Go on holiday for a weekend to a Gaeltacht and see how you get on. Build up a relationship with some of the locals and see how it develops over time.

Yeah some good tips here, I find the thinking/speaking to yourself through Irish to be one of the best ways of improving. The local conversation groups are more active than you would think a lot of the time and could be good but can be a bit intimidating starting off if you don't know anyone there, the pop up Gaeltachts are brilliant because it is casual and can be an introduction to meeting people in these groups or in a similar position to yourself.

I think the best way to learn is just to try and speak it as much as possible, even if it is broken Irish with lots of mistakes you will learn by trial and error and eventually improve and pick up new words to fill in certain gaps. So many people are afraid to even try but generally people are better than they give themselves credit for.

JohnnyFlash

The pop up Gaeltacht idea is great. It brings people of various levels of language proficiency together in a relaxed environment where they can have a few pints and a chat. I'm a native speaker, and love them. Doesn't do any harm that I tend to get the ride as a result of attending - porter, the language, and the allure of seeing a real 'in the wild' native speaker living it large in Dublin seems to be attractive to women in their 30's.

What I would recommend you avoid at all costs are the joyless sorts you tend to find rising to positions of authority in organisations such as Gael Linn. These are easy spot - usually humourless and very serious looking men wearing corduroy trousers and tweed jackets. They will have a beard and glasses. The language for them isn't something to be enjoyed, but to be forced upon people along with a large dose of nostalgic Irish nationalism - usually involving reciting terrible poems about Pearse dying. They'll also be working under the assumption that being lectured on the necessity of physical force Republicanism and socialism is the type of thing that interests people who want to learn the language.

They speak the clipped, forced, and haughty Irish of the South Dublin gaelscoil and the UCD School of Irish. They'll usually have made some terrible attempt to convert their name into Irish, refusing to accept that they either have a planter surname, or that their ancestors took the soup.

If you find yourself in the company of one or more of these interminable bores, then I suggest you stand up, bid them a slán agat, and make a rapid stage left through whatever exit is closest.

biko

Join a language club, meet in a pub once a week or so and chat in Irish
Persuade a friend to also start learning and speak to each other as much as you can.

aloneforever99

I find watching the news in Irish helpful.

Chances are that I've already seen the story online in English, so I'm able to put some of the vocab together from context.

Speak it as much as you can.

The Satanist

Podgerz wrote: »

I plan to move to Dublin next month - not a big fan of sitting and studying it in a book. I was pretty decent ten years ago so I am sure its knocking around upstairs somewhere - I plan on joining a Gaelige only speaking GAA team to help me focus while playing a bit of football. Two stones and all that. Dreading my first training as Im gonna come accross a bit odd and shy which isnt my nature - until I get the cupla focail back and (hopefully) go from there!

Some more info here:

http://www.nagaeiloga.ie/Pages/ClubNews/Why%20I%20joined%20Dublin%E2%80%99s%20first%20Irish-speaking%20GAA%20club.aspx

Some suburbs/towns have conversational groups who meet in a local pub or café every week, maybe try searching local groups on Facebook or ask in the regional forums on boards.

NIMAN

Go and live among native speakers for 6 months or a year, and you'll be fluent.

It worked for Des Bishop.

Podgerz

I plan to move to Dublin next month - not a big fan of sitting and studying it in a book. I was pretty decent ten years ago so I am sure its knocking around upstairs somewhere - I plan on joining a Gaelige only speaking GAA team to help me focus while playing a bit of football. Two stones and all that. Dreading my first training as Im gonna come accross a bit odd and shy which isnt my nature - until I get the cupla focail back and (hopefully) go from there!

Some more info here:

http://www.nagaeiloga.ie/Pages/ClubNews/Why%20I%20joined%20Dublin%E2%80%99s%20first%20Irish-speaking%20GAA%20club.aspx

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You knock the poster by projecting your own bias, as if this carried significant resonance. Obviously your opinion is full of substance.

I'm not knocking the poster. I'm saying it's bizarre to overhear people speaking irish and implying that they're being boastful.

If you accused of being boastful a French, Spanish or Russian speaker who chose to speak their native language around their friends, most people would reply with the same answer: they're not the ones with the problem.

LeinsterDub

Find a local pop up Gaeltacht. Right craic

doolox

I worked for a large multinational where speaking anything other than English was forbidden by the management because the perception was that some foreign natives in the workplace were communicating secret intentions about another employee in their vicinity and they did not want that employee to know what their intentions were.

Some nationalities can be worse at this than others and it can be intimidating to be a third party to a discussion taking place among two other employees, for example at a meeting, when you do not know their language, as most Irish wouldn't know foreign languages especially the more obscure ones.

I have seen foreign speakers being told "In English Please" when they would hold such conversations among others of their nationality present at the meeting.

I also remember having difficulty understanding some people and colleagues and being very self conscious and fearful of asking them to repeat their requests or clarify their requirements until I was told I was not to blame as English was the only language to be used in our company and it was up to them to become or be proficient in English. It was not up to me to try and decipher unintelligible gibberish especially if the non native speaker was in a position of superior authority to me such as an engineer or inspector or auditor.
I was at risk of failing many inspections and questionings until I learned to complain about the manner and poor standard of English among some non native employees.

I have been told that many Irish nurses experience similar problems dealing with non native English speaking colleagues and Doctors and have to fight their corner when misunderstandings and mistakes happen due to poor levels of spoken English among some non native speakers. Written instructions are often insisted upon now to protect the professional integrity of the individual nurses conduct and working performance while they are on duty. Medication changes, for example, all have to be written down and are no longer taken verbally as would have happened in the distant past.

As a social construct, language has been used in our past as a weapon to keep certain classes apart and to oppress non conforming elements in a given society. We first had the ascendancy of English over Irish when the speaking of Irish was subject to sanction and severe corporal punishment in our National Schools since their formation by the English ruling class in 1833.

On Independence and gaining self rule the tables were turned.

Monoglot English speakers were treated like dirt and punished severely by fanatical Irish speaking teachers who did not realise the level of difficulty in learning Irish and assumed that the English speaking pupils were being difficult and awkward about acquiring for what to them was a completely alien language. It is my opinion that the desire to learn Irish is not strong enough in a significant number of people to be successful. Compulsory Irish is resented by many people as a waste of precious and scarce educational resources and seen as a handicap by others who compare our educational performances to other English Speaking countries.

However countries such as Canada have to accommodate French in their education systems and the US increasingly looks to proficiency in Spanish, especially among most aspiring public officials and functionaries dealing with all sectors of their countries. Ireland is not unique in requiring a second language in their Educational systems. I don't believe that Irish language instruction "handicaps" Irish students in any way because competing countries have their own cultural material to learn and get through in their respective education systems. These things tend to balance out.

Two of my nephews had exemptions from Irish due to spending their formative years in the UK. However they had to learn and pass French in order to gain access to university places because of the strict requirement to have a second language pass in the Leaving for university matriculation. Knowledge and a pass in LC Irish can be used to satisfy this second language requirement and is compulsory for gaining entrance to the National University or Ireland for those not possessing the Irish language exemption. It meant that the lads HAD to pass French, at which they were relatively weak, there being no backup for them in the form of Irish.

Regarding TG4, I find their level of public broadcasting and quality to be very good compared to RTE 1 and 2. Many intelligent programs are broadcast on this channel, far superior to the lowest common denominator stuff that appears on RTE 1 and 2. I like to think they use their erudite and eclectic programmes as bait to get people to take an interest in Irish, even if only at a superficial level. For me the tactic works.

[Deleted User]

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

it says more about you than about them, that you think they're trying to boast.

If I meet someone whom I know also speaks irish, I'll speak to them in Irish, because it's nice to get the opportunity.

If you were in a group chat in a pub, and a couple of the lads started chatting amongst themselves about tiddlywinks, or basketball, or computer programming - vocabulary you might not understand - would you think they were being boastful, or just being sociable with one another?

Im sure you have international friends, and wouldn't think it rude if they were in a group and occasionally broke into their native language when speaking among themselves. It just happens, nobody's out to diminish your own identity.

You knock the poster by projecting your own bias, as if this carried significant resonance. Obviously your opinion is full of substance.

[Deleted User]

Snow Garden wrote: »

Ah no gaelgoirs can be an absolute dose these days. Many believe they are more Irish than the rest of us. If there are 2 gaelgoirs in a group of people on a social night out, they will often take an opportunity to speak Irish to each other just to show off. It can be really weird.

it says more about you than about them, that you think they're trying to boast.

If I meet someone whom I know also speaks irish, I'll speak to them in Irish, because it's nice to get the opportunity.

If you were in a group chat in a pub, and a couple of the lads started chatting amongst themselves about tiddlywinks, or basketball, or computer programming - vocabulary you might not understand - would you think they were being boastful, or just being sociable with one another?

Im sure you have international friends, and wouldn't think it rude if they were in a group and occasionally broke into their native language when speaking among themselves. It just happens, nobody's out to diminish your own identity.

Snow Garden

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I've honestly never experienced this. I lived briefly in France and found that French people were far more likely to take you to task on a misplaced past patticiple, for example - not out of rudeness, but because they're less familiar with encountering non-native speakers, and being a stickler for grammar is something of a national pastime.

In Ireland, the vast majority of speakers are using the native language as our second language, we didn't grow up with it. People will very rarely point out mistakes, in my experience, unless you ask them to (personally, I've found that helpful). Most people are just delighted to get a chance to speak as Gaeilge. 14 years after leaving school, I can't think of any situation where I was lectured at or condescended to. Bí ag caint!

Ah no gaelgoirs can be an absolute dose these days. Many believe they are more Irish than the rest of us. If there are 2 gaelgoirs in a group of people on a social night out, they will often take an opportunity to speak Irish to each other just to show off. It can be really weird.

wakka12

upinsmoke wrote: »

Should be stop been thought after primary school and be swapped with an IT class.

Speak for yourself. Proud to know Irish and glad I hadd the opportunity in school to learn it. Its a beautiful language. And it wasnt taught as badly as people claim, I think if you cant remember any of it you were just not an enthusiastic student. I was very close to fluency by the time around my leaving cert and I dont think Irish language was taught any better or worse than how spanish french or german were

I think the best way is to immerse yourself around people who are also speaking irish, theres lots of classes and pop up gaeltachts

KevRossi

A couple of tips on learning languages:

To speak it better and get a better vocabulary; speak/think to yourself in Irish during the day. So instead of thinking to yourself
'I'm hungry, will I go to McDonalds or will I make myself a sandwich?"
start to say
"
"Tá ocras orm, an dtéann mé go McDonalds nó an ndéanfaidh mé ceapaire orm féin?""

This way you'll have the words ready if in a conversation, at least for the basics anyway.

For reading, just buy kids books. Start off on basic stuff for 5 year olds and move up. Books with a lot of conversation are better.

For listening then the radio is excellent, but try to avoid the political programmes. The hourly news is good, you will have an idea of the story anyway and will be able to make out a lot of words. The same story will be on the radio for a few hours, if not days, so you'll get a good idea of all the words used.

And look for local conversation groups, MeetUp, libraries, Irish social clubs.... there's a couple in every town. Go on holiday for a weekend to a Gaeltacht and see how you get on. Build up a relationship with some of the locals and see how it develops over time.

irishguitarlad

To learn a language you have to attack It from all sides, so that means writing, speaking, listening, reading and grammar. What I do to learn a Word is put a crazy story behind It in english, that way It stays in your head.

CalamariFritti

I'm not into Irish and I dont speak it at all, but I'm learning a different language using doulingo and I find it very good. It's app/computer/phone based so it taps into those 10 minutes here and there when you have nothing else to do. I'm on it for 3 months now and when I compare it to learning a language in school, I probably learned more in 3 months than I would have in one year in school. Possibly more.
Give it a try it costs nothing and even the paid version is only a tenner a month which is very little for a new language.

is_that_so

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I've honestly never experienced this. I lived briefly in France and found that French people were far more likely to take you to task on a misplaced past patticiple, for example - not out of rudeness, but because they're less familiar with encountering non-native speakers, and being a stickler for grammar is something of a national pastime.

In Ireland, the vast majority of speakers are using the native language as our second language, we didn't grow up with it. People will very rarely point out mistakes, in my experience, unless you ask them to (personally, I've found that helpful). Most people are just delighted to get a chance to speak as Gaeilge. 14 years after leaving school, I can't think of any situation where I was lectured at or condescended to. Bí ag caint!

He has a point about some Gaeilgeoiri. They do look down their noses at efforts, but I don't think it's that common. Having a stab at it in Gaeltacht areas is always welcomed with encouragement though!

[Deleted User]

mikhail wrote: »

gaelgoirs have a bad reputation (deserved or not) for being a bit snobby to people with less perfect Irish than themselves.

I've honestly never experienced this. I lived briefly in France and found that French people were far more likely to take you to task on a misplaced past patticiple, for example - not out of rudeness, but because they're less familiar with encountering non-native speakers, and being a stickler for grammar is something of a national pastime.

In Ireland, the vast majority of speakers are using the native language as our second language, we didn't grow up with it. People will very rarely point out mistakes, in my experience, unless you ask them to (personally, I've found that helpful). Most people are just delighted to get a chance to speak as Gaeilge. 14 years after leaving school, I can't think of any situation where I was lectured at or condescended to. Bí ag caint!