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Property Market 2019

The_Conductor

As is now becoming a custom- we'll start a new thread to discuss all topics as they pertain to the property market in general, alongside people's predictions and experiences- for the year 2019.

Its going to be an interesting year- with Brexit, if it comes to pass, at the end of March- and to misquote Donald Rumsfeld - the unknown unknowns that are likely to jump out at us, when we least expect them to.

2018 thread is now closed.

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Kidkinobe

Rex Disgusting Tariff wrote: »

It works both ways folks. Agents advertise properties for 300k and people offer 260k.

Can't have your cake and eat it.

its fair enough to advertise at 300k and get offers at 250, you can just say no thanks, we will wait for the advertised price but advertising at 250 and then showing up and the agent saying, 'only joking, we want 300'..Sure you can say no thanks, but you have just wasted your time looking at a house that you were led to believe by the ad that it was in your price region.

q85dw7osi4lebg

It works both ways folks. Agents advertise properties for 300k and people offer 260k.

Can't have your cake and eat it.

Kidkinobe

cruizer101 wrote: »

Similar thing happens in cars as in houses.
When houses or cars are sold by a developer/garage prices are set and more or less non-negotiable (little haggle room in cars).
When houses/cars are sold by a individual they put it up at a price but that price isn't set in stone.
Why would someone sell a house for less than they can get.

They are welcome to sell it what ever price they want...but advertising it at 100k and when people showing up to look are told they want 150k for it is what the discussion is about..If you are going to advertise at 100k you will get people with 100 k to spend, people with 150k will be looking at 150 k houses.

tobsey

Consumer protection act in relation to the sale of a second hand house. Jesus wept. I feel bad for estate agents and sellers.

Bluefoam

klaaaz wrote: »

Some people use them for sitting out in the sun as their back garden is north facing

Thats nice... but rather than purchasing the additional space at the front of my property, I'd probably use the money to buy a south facing property... then I'd have sun & privacy...If I couldn't afford the south facing aspect, I doubt I could afford a north facing with a decent front garden either.

cruizer101

Kidkinobe wrote: »

Its false advertising...if a car yard had a car up for sale and was offered at 10k in the paper and you went into look at it and they told you they wanted 12k for it...Do you not think you would have wasted two hours of your time...

Similar thing happens in cars as in houses.
When houses or cars are sold by a developer/garage prices are set and more or less non-negotiable (little haggle room in cars).
When houses/cars are sold by a individual they put it up at a price but that price isn't set in stone.
Why would someone sell a house for less than they can get.

Bob24

Kidkinobe wrote: »

Rules and regs are there for misleading advertising ..The ad stated 220...which I assumed was 200 to 240 range...not 260 plus. Its a totally misleading ad when I have been told they want 260 for it. Which is their own choice, but the ad for the property is very misleading.
The main legislation concerning advertisements in Ireland is the Consumer Protection Act, 2007. This Act sets out, among other things, various rules that apply to claims made about goods and services. In particular this Act protects consumers from misleading advertisements and ensures that trade is fair. Under the Act it is an offence for an advertiser/trader to make false claims about goods, services or prices. All types of communications that promote goods or services are covered by the Act. This includes advertisements, a notice in a shop or even a claim made by a sales assistant about a product or service. EU laws also ensure that misleading advertising is forbidden in all Member States. Under SI 134/1988 (European Communities (Misleading Advertising) Regulations, 1988), any person can apply to the High Court for an order prohibiting the publication of misleading advertising.

What is 'Misleading Advertising'?
Misleading advertising means advertising that deceives or is likely to deceive anyone that sees it. Misleading advertising may affect consumers’ choices regarding what they buy. It’s worth bearing in mind, that it may be an offence for a trader to advertise good or services if it is likely to mislead and therefore cause loss, damage or injury to the public.

If it was considered false advertising as part of the act, it wouldn’t be standard practice for pretty much every single estate agent in this country.

Some agents can be dodgy, but the whole profession breaking the law on a daily basis and nothing happening about it (either reaction from the public or from the government or both) seems fairly unlikely.

klaaaz

browne_rob5 wrote: »

Front gardens are a waste of time unless you are into gardening. You cant use it for anything as there is no privacy but still have to spend time maintaining it. I never see anyone using them in our estate or any estate for that matter.

Some people use them for sitting out in the sun as their back garden is north facing

Kidkinobe

Bob24 wrote: »

I personally think it’s a bad practice, but in this country it is neither illegal nor against professional ethics of the profession (in many countries it is one, the other or both).

Rules and regs are there for misleading advertising ..The ad stated 220...which I assumed was 200 to 240 range...not 260 plus. Its a totally misleading ad when I have been told they want 260 for it. Which is their own choice, but the ad for the property is very misleading.
The main legislation concerning advertisements in Ireland is the Consumer Protection Act, 2007. This Act sets out, among other things, various rules that apply to claims made about goods and services. In particular this Act protects consumers from misleading advertisements and ensures that trade is fair. Under the Act it is an offence for an advertiser/trader to make false claims about goods, services or prices. All types of communications that promote goods or services are covered by the Act. This includes advertisements, a notice in a shop or even a claim made by a sales assistant about a product or service. EU laws also ensure that misleading advertising is forbidden in all Member States. Under SI 134/1988 (European Communities (Misleading Advertising) Regulations, 1988), any person can apply to the High Court for an order prohibiting the publication of misleading advertising.

What is 'Misleading Advertising'?
Misleading advertising means advertising that deceives or is likely to deceive anyone that sees it. Misleading advertising may affect consumers’ choices regarding what they buy. It’s worth bearing in mind, that it may be an offence for a trader to advertise good or services if it is likely to mislead and therefore cause loss, damage or injury to the public.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Kidkinobe wrote: »

Its false advertising...if a car yard had a car up for sale and was offered at 10k in the paper and you went into look at it and they told you they wanted 12k for it...Do you not think you would have wasted two hours of your time...

The difference is it's impossible to know what a house is worth. Why take the first offer of the asking when you can get more? The same viewers get annoyed when they bid below the asking and get involved in a so called bidding war.

Bob24

Kidkinobe wrote: »

Its false advertising...if a car yard had a car up for sale and was offered at 10k in the paper and you went into look at it and they told you they wanted 12k for it...Do you not think you would have wasted two hours of your time...

I personally think it’s a bad practice, but in this country it is neither illegal nor against professional ethics of the profession (in many countries it is one, the other or both).

Kidkinobe

Rex Disgusting Tariff wrote: »

Wouldn't worry about it so, move on find another, but be aware asking prices are just that. Think of it as "offers over".

Its false advertising...if a car yard had a car up for sale and was offered at 10k in the paper and you went into look at it and they told you they wanted 12k for it...Do you not think you would have wasted two hours of your time...

q85dw7osi4lebg

Kidkinobe wrote: »

Stupid estate agent, he told me that the seller is his brother in law. And going by the chat I had with him..he has told his brother in law he would get him 260k for it while he also told me that 3 offers they have already had were 180k, 190k and 210k...offers have stopped coming in since the last offer of 210k.

Wouldn't worry about it so, move on find another, but be aware asking prices are just that. Think of it as "offers over".

Pussyhands

browne_rob5 wrote: »

Front gardens are a waste of time unless you are into gardening. You cant use it for anything as there is no privacy but still have to spend time maintaining it. I never see anyone using them in our estate or any estate for that matter.

Actually there should really be a large lawn area because there needs to be somewhere for the rainwater to soak into. Earth can absorb about 2 inches per hour.

Kidkinobe

Rex Disgusting Tariff wrote: »

Stupid estate agent or stupid seller? Maybe even stupid viewer?:pac:

Stupid estate agent, he told me that the seller is his brother in law. And going by the chat I had with him..he has told his brother in law he would get him 260k for it while he also told me that 3 offers they have already had were 180k, 190k and 210k...offers have stopped coming in since the last offer of 210k.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Kidkinobe wrote: »

Stupid estate agent...Went to view a house a week back and slept on it for a bit and then went back for a second look. Advertised at 220k but agent said sellers wanted more than that so I asked him to find out what they wanted for it...He got back to me with , they want 260 for it, it was just put on at 220 to get attention plus the seller thinks it will be worth 260 in a few years time...I suggested to him that if the seller thinks they can get 260 for it in a few years then maybe they should put it on the market in a few years, but trying to sell it right now is wasting everyones time if they are not going to accept current market value which would be about 220 going by recent sales in the same estate. I don't think that estate agent will try sell me a house again.

Stupid estate agent or stupid seller? Maybe even stupid viewer?:pac:

Kidkinobe

Stupid estate agent...Went to view a house a week back and slept on it for a bit and then went back for a second look. Advertised at 220k but agent said sellers wanted more than that so I asked him to find out what they wanted for it...He got back to me with , they want 260 for it, it was just put on at 220 to get attention plus the seller thinks it will be worth 260 in a few years time...I suggested to him that if the seller thinks they can get 260 for it in a few years then maybe they should put it on the market in a few years, but trying to sell it right now is wasting everyones time if they are not going to accept current market value which would be about 220 going by recent sales in the same estate. I don't think that estate agent will try sell me a house again.

mkdon

browne_rob5 wrote: »

Front gardens are a waste of time unless you are into gardening. You cant use it for anything as there is no privacy but still have to spend time maintaining it. I never see anyone using them in our estate or any estate for that matter.

but a driveway would be nice ... at this prices

Rew

Bluefoam wrote: »

I don't undertand why 3 stories is a negative? You get larger rooms in a smaller footprint & better heating management. If you want a house with parking, then buy a house with parking.

From talking to people that live in them they find the layout less than idea especially with younger children. Sitting room and kitchen on different floors. Parking for visitors is often a big hassle in new style estates

browne_rob5

the butcher wrote: »

Very depressing looking at all these new estates at extortionate prices with no driveway to park in, little to no garden at the front and three stories becoming more and more common.

Front gardens are a waste of time unless you are into gardening. You cant use it for anything as there is no privacy but still have to spend time maintaining it. I never see anyone using them in our estate or any estate for that matter.

The_Conductor

I see Cairn have had their planning application for 400+ houses in the Newcastle/Lucan SDZ turned down- as unsuitable. I know it was a very early stage refusal- but does anyone know what the grounds for turning down the application were? Personally I think the whole SDZ is a recipe for a disaster- however, it looks like An Bord Pleanála are actually giving it fair and reasonable consideration- in light of the many local objections.

The_Conductor

the butcher wrote: »

Very depressing looking at all these new estates at extortionate prices with no driveway to park in, little to no garden at the front and three stories becoming more and more common.

Location is everything though.
High density and no parking- is fine- in an urban area with good transport options. Its less fine- when you go more subburban or rural. Also- 3 stories- shouldn't be anything that we complain about- I can't see what the issue is. I'd love to see 20-25 storey developments- of affordable housing units- in locations with good services, facilities and amenities- who are capable of absorbing these type developments- but especially in Dublin, Cork and Galway city centres. We *need* high density units- in large volumes- where people need to live. We also need to accept that there has to be affordable housing- for public sector employees and other low paid but vital members of society. Its just not fair that a teacher, a nurse or a Garda- should drive 100km+ to or from work- in fact its a form of cruel and unusual punishment to make this the norm. Living in Dublin- should not be the sole remit of financiers and bankers- it should accommodate a good cross section of our workers- and there should be a particular effort, in my opinion, to accommodate those who work at the coal face. I would argue that lesser productive members of our communities- should not have an expectation of housing in the highest demand areas- I'm not suggesting for a moment a hell or to Connaught approach- but we should have affordable houses in our city centres- for critical members of our communities- I would argue the entirety of the social housing allocation be instead commuted into an affordable housing quotient instead- in all city centre developments.

Housing is a mess in general- however, we also have a golden opportunity to use what is often a greenfield approach- to make provisions for the future- instead of copperfastening and mollycoddling the past.

Bluefoam

the butcher wrote: »

Very depressing looking at all these new estates at extortionate prices with no driveway to park in, little to no garden at the front and three stories becoming more and more common.

I don't undertand why 3 stories is a negative? You get larger rooms in a smaller footprint & better heating management. If you want a house with parking, then buy a house with parking. Many people, particularly young people, don't want front gardens due to the amount of work they require to maintain.

Doop

the butcher wrote: »

Very depressing looking at all these new estates at extortionate prices with no driveway to park in, little to no garden at the front and three stories becoming more and more common.

I would agree with you on the price, but as for the rest we really do need to make our peace with higher density. The days of the 3 bed semi with a room/garage to the side and side access are gone... and I would think rightly so. The urban sprawl that was allowed go on in previous generations is reprehensible.

the butcher

Very depressing looking at all these new estates at extortionate prices with no driveway to park in, little to no garden at the front and three stories becoming more and more common.

Mad_maxx

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Its worth pointing out that towards the end, when sales were cooling off and builders were bailing left and right, some wealthy people were still throwing money at houses. A house behind my parents house went for 1.2 mil in late 2007, the same house 4 doors down is currently looking for 725k, eg 60% of "peak" price. Except when the crash came, he was the only person in the row because nobody else bought them at those crazy prices.

It must have taken a very long time to officially register as sold as when the peak arrived in February 2007, it was almost immediately as if someone hit the trapdoor button, by end of 2007, prices had fallen quite a bit even that did not register until 2008

Mad_maxx

Glenbhoy wrote: »

Rathfarnham, Terenure appear to be circa 65% of peak, anecdotal prices from way back v ppr, so more of a guestimate than anything else.

Again property specific, but prices haven't rocketed like elsewhere from the trough, specific estates in my area are about 50-60% up, but transactions at the bottom were minimal. More transactions circa 2014 and prices up by about 30-40% from then.

Not even the bogs of Leitrim are 65% off peak.

If you think rathfarnham is that far off peak, your calendar must read February 2012

Cuddlesworth

Glenbhoy wrote: »

Rathfarnham, Terenure appear to be circa 65% of peak, anecdotal prices from way back v ppr, so more of a guestimate than anything else.

Its worth pointing out that towards the end, when sales were cooling off and builders were bailing left and right, some wealthy people were still throwing money at houses. A house behind my parents house went for 1.2 mil in late 2007, the same house 4 doors down is currently looking for 725k, eg 60% of "peak" price. Except when the crash came, he was the only person in the row because nobody else bought them at those crazy prices.

Bob24

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Getting mortgage approval was extremely hard unless you had at least 30% of a deposit until about 2014

I guess noone has hard figures to argue either way, but i disagree with that. Maybe people thought they were rejected because of an imaginary 30% deposit requirement, while in fact it is their LTI ratio, employment status, or savings history which were the issue. I certainly know of several people (including myself) who had mortgages approved during that time and I don’t remember ever reading about such requirement anywhere (do you are a source where a 30% deposit requirement is clearly mentioned?)

Plus what started this discussion is the fact that a poster mentioned that people who have been saving up for the bad times and hoping to buy then will find it nearly impossible to get funding. So in the group we are talking about, a lot will have those 30% deposits anyway.

Glenbhoy

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Clontarf is closer to peak than santry, I'd say 15% in the desirable areas, West Dublin is furthest off, so many apartments in citywest and apartments further off

Rathfarnham, Terenure appear to be circa 65% of peak, anecdotal prices from way back v ppr, so more of a guestimate than anything else.

Again property specific, but prices haven't rocketed like elsewhere from the trough, specific estates in my area are about 50-60% up, but transactions at the bottom were minimal. More transactions circa 2014 and prices up by about 30-40% from then.