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Irish rail fleet and infrastructure plans

Ireland trains

I created this thread because there is due to be alot of investment set to come in irish rail over the next few years (hopefully)
• 250 Bi-mode coaches
• 230 EMU coaches
• new enterprise fleet (possibly eletric)
• 41 new 22000 class centre coaches

The 2700 refurbishment has been scrapped
The new bi-modes and EMUs will be of the same design
The new 22k coaches will be to lenghten the sets which will increasing capacity and free up sets.
Older darts likley to be retired

Eletrification to Drogheda, Maynooth, M3 Parkway and Hazelhatch.
Quad track northern line
Dart route Docklands-Heuston
Reduce intercity journey times.
Is there anything that anyone could add.

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devnull

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

One of the old ones.

Be typical if they broke that system, bearing in mind it's the most reliable PIS system of any of the Irish Rail fleets, the one on the newer darts is woeful.

I've never seen the mid sentence cut off issue you describe though, apart from on a single unit that had a newer version of software applied in 2016 which broke a good system, but thought it had been rolled back.

Colonel Claptrap

devnull wrote: »

I've never seen the mid sentence cut off issue you describe though

For safety and security this train has CC...

devnull

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

I've never seen the mid sentence cut off issue you describe though

For safety and security this train has CC...

That's not on the Old 8100 trains with the bench seating? Only on the Asian 8500 ones which I agree it's a problem for.

Hope that system isn't being migrated to the old ones as well as its rubbish!!

Captain Chaos

The system the 8100s got in the refurb is better than the ones the 8500s have.

devnull

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The system the 8100s got in the refurb is better than the ones the 8500s have.

Indeed - very reliable system, which is more than can be said about the system on the 8500 which rarely works very well and you can have situations on an 8500 where announcements, side and internal displays all give out conflicting information.

Believe that the 8100 system is based on the same system and display product line as used in the UK Desiro fleets which is also considered as very reliable.

GM228

devnull wrote: »

Indeed - very reliable system, which is more than can be said about the system on the 8500 which rarely works very well and you can have situations on an 8500 where announcements, side and internal displays all give out conflicting information.

Believe that the 8100 system is based on the same system and display product line as used in the UK Desiro fleets which is also considered as very reliable.

Correct, in the UK the 195s, 365s, 373s, 397s, 802 IEPs, Desiros and here the 8100s and Enterprise use the Televic PIS system.

devnull

GM228 wrote: »

Correct, in the UK the 195s, 365s, 373s, 397s, 802 IEPs, Desiros and here the 8100s and Enterprise use the Televic PIS system.

The rest is Ikusi I believe and maintained by Quaestor?

Hopefully in the future Irish Rail won't go down the Ikusi route if they can avoid it, because honestly, from the poor quality displays, the unreliable PIS that either doesn't work or not know where it's going, the not very good seat reservation system and the broken for a best part of a decade on board maps, the systems just seem cheap and poor quality.

loyatemu

Speaking of PIS, I see the interactive map that never works on the newest Darts has now been covered over with a cardboard map. Progress.

XPS_Zero

tabbey wrote: »

Does it still advise passengers to change at Dun Laoghaire for ferry services?

Yes, they still have not changed this.

Marcusm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Yes, they still have not changed this.

And proper order too; how else would passengers know to alight for the ferry to Dublin City and/or Howth!

Jamie2k9

Oranmore might get a passing loop installed co funded by IE and Urban and Rural Regeneration Funds. Interesting use of funds, wonder if they will explore it on other parts of the network if successful.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/irish-rail-to-investigate-potential-of-increasing-routes-to-and-from-galway/

dowlingm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Oranmore might get a passing loop installed co funded by IE and Urban and Rural Regeneration Funds. Interesting use of funds, wonder if they will explore it on other parts of the network if successful.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/irish-rail-to-investigate-potential-of-increasing-routes-to-and-from-galway/

while the loop would improve the efficiency of Galway area operations, one wonders how much service could be added without a third platform - I believe there was a plan for one in the station siding track?

loyatemu

dowlingm wrote: »

while the loop would improve the efficiency of Galway area operations, one wonders how much service could be added without a third platform - I believe there was a plan for one in the station siding track?

can't remember where I read it but I think a 3rd platform is planned for Galway.

edit - mention of it here

and more details here, though no confirmation of the extra platform

Jamie2k9

dowlingm wrote: »

while the loop would improve the efficiency of Galway area operations, one wonders how much service could be added without a third platform - I believe there was a plan for one in the station siding track?

Two platforms is plenty to provide increased services while a third would be more useful. Today for example if the layout was better the main platform should be cleared to allow more than one movement like what happens in Heuston.

Loops at Athenry, Oranmore and Galway would at a minimun cut the regular delays.

goingnowhere

Won't make a huge difference as the section between Athenry and Galway is already split so two trains can follow each other, all you could do is run a shuttle Oranmore - Galway

To make a real difference they need two tracks Galway Athenry

Markcheese

Are the speed constraints on for eg cork /Dublin mainly due to too many junctions / crossing point /local traffic or more curves and bends on the line.
Has anyone proposed pendilino style trains or would it give minimum speed increase for serious cost,

L1011

Cork-Dublin alignment is very, very straight compared to what you would generally buy Pendolino trains for.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/ie_2018_network_statement_(final_version).pdf shows the speed limits for each section of track - theres a lot of 145km/h sections

devnull

Markcheese wrote: »

Are the speed constraints on for eg cork /Dublin mainly due to too many junctions / crossing point /local traffic or more curves and bends on the line.
Has anyone proposed pendilino style trains or would it give minimum speed increase for serious cost,

Buying Pendolino trains to make a statement to look good and then running them on infrastructure that will not make the most of their technology to tilt or their high speed potential (like PKP in Poland) would be a waste of money since you could buy other well made trains that would not have anything you can't make use of whilst still having everything you could.

Praetorian

The Dublin to Belfast line is quite curvy...

Losty Dublin

Praetorian wrote: »

The Dublin to Belfast line is quite curvy...

But a lot of the corners on the route are short and sharp in places that requires very slow speeds. Drogheda and Poyntzpass are the obvious ones but bar Grangebellow outside Drogheda most of the issues are north of the Border; Lisburn, Portadown and Newry being the three worst offenders. Barring serious investments to relocate the line there is not a lot that can be done though I would agree with you that such stock would help elsewhere en route.

L1011

The main improvements to journey times north of the border would be from general track quality improvements I'd imagine.

Jamie2k9

goingnowhere wrote: »

Won't make a huge difference as the section between Athenry and Galway is already split so two trains can follow each other, all you could do is run a shuttle Oranmore - Galway

To make a real difference they need two tracks Galway Athenry

TBH not sure what the point in splitting the section was as only one or two services per day actually utilize such a set up. The rest sit in Galway loop or Athenry and cross.

Markcheese

devnull wrote: »

Buying Pendolino trains to make a statement to look good and then running them on infrastructure that will not make the most of their technology to tilt or their high speed potential (like PKP in Poland) would be a waste of money since you could buy other well made trains that would not have anything you can't make use of whilst still having everything you could.

I suppose that was kind of my question,
Would something like a pendalino give major improvements on somewhere like the Cork Dublin line.. Especially given the relatively short distance... Or would it not be able to travel top speed very often, because of the system constraints..
And it seems fairly clear, it wouldn't be worth the cost..

devnull

Markcheese wrote: »

I suppose that was kind of my question,
Would something like a pendalino give major improvements on somewhere like the Cork Dublin line.. Especially given the relatively short distance... Or would it not be able to travel top speed very often, because of the system constraints..
And it seems fairly clear, it wouldn't be worth the cost..

Buying a tilting high speed train on a network that can neither support it's highest speeds or the tilting mechanism is folly and is wasting taxpayers money if they were to go down that route. PKP have done that in Poland when they could have bought several more trains for the same amount of money with no effect on the services they offered, but instead they decided that looking good and having features they can never use was more important than having more new trains.

There are many products that are offered by the main rolling stock manufacturers such as Bombardier, Siemens and CAF that could easily meet Irish Rail's needs without the tilt and 140mph running that we'll never be able to use in the foreseeable future and provide hugely better value for money.

It's not even like the Pendolino is a good train, the Siemens Velaro family is far better as well as the various ICE trains in Germany that are essentially the same line to a large degree.

dermo888

Losty Dublin wrote: »

But a lot of the corners on the route are short and sharp in places that requires very slow speeds. Drogheda and Poyntzpass are the obvious ones but bar Grangebellow outside Drogheda most of the issues are north of the Border; Lisburn, Portadown and Newry being the three worst offenders. Barring serious investments to relocate the line there is not a lot that can be done though I would agree with you that such stock would help elsewhere en route.

The key problem with the Dublin to Belfast line is that of capacity, with DART at one end, and Belfast Suburbans at the other slowing it up.

That will cost an absolute fortune to solve.

tabbey

dermo888 wrote: »

The key problem with the Dublin to Belfast line is that of capacity, with DART at one end, and Belfast Suburbans at the other slowing it up.

That will cost an absolute fortune to solve.

The longer it is delayed, the more expensive it becomes.

dowlingm

Does anyone know how 22000 timings go on Dublin-Belfast vs 201/DD? I would have thought the extra driven axles would make it quicker to accelerate in both traffic and PSR situations.

Losty Dublin

dowlingm wrote: »

Does anyone know how 22000 timings go on Dublin-Belfast vs 201/DD? I would have thought the extra driven axles would make it quicker to accelerate in both traffic and PSR situations.

They run about 5 minutes quicker in service assuming that all stops are made. As the last stops are in commuter areas the gains are minimal. Non stop they can better times by up to 20 minutes under optimum conditions.

dermo888

Losty Dublin wrote: »

They run about 5 minutes quicker in service assuming that all stops are made. As the last stops are in commuter areas the gains are minimal. Non stop they can better times by up to 20 minutes under optimum conditions.

Jesus.......I knew the 22K's were good, but not THAT good!

XPS_Zero

Marcusm wrote: »

And proper order too; how else would passengers know to alight for the ferry to Dublin City and/or Howth!

Well according to Red Rock, not only is Dun Laoghaire port still open but it does services to France! At least for one transporting a bad batch of x which will floor a bunch of kids in a nightclub in order that they may do that "one last deal" that they super swear will totally be the last ever and they'll retire on this deal.

I also see that even in fiction we can't seem to get our security services to stop wearing those stupid looking baggy oversized yellow jackets... (immigration guys in this case)