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Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

gimmick

So this is a thread for your musings which do not deserve an entire thread of its own.

For example

I just watched Card Subject To Change. Horrific to think that since its been made the following has happened -

Kamala has become an amputee

Sensational Sherrie, Paul Bearer and Trent Acid are dead

Had Kevin Sullivan and Nancy stayed together one of Wrestlings darkest moments would be completely different or never would have happened.

Lacey Von Erich almost became a diva. She is also crazy hot. Pure nom.

I also mused that even while Sherri was a dispicable heel while she was on tv she may well have been my first celeb crush.

All this in one lazy evening.

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Kolido

Itssoeasy wrote: »

wrestle mania 9 is by far the most insulting stuff put on tape and called wrestle mania.

First one I watched live so kinda have a soft spot for it.

The one with Bam Bam and LT main eventing was bad iirc, 11 or 12?

Necro

I think Omack did a tourney on this before and 32 won IIRC. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that in hindsight, there's a few mentioned here that were way worse. It's still 27 for me.

Very very poor undercard and an equally uninspiring main event.

CastorTroy

J. Marston wrote: »

Who is the actual best actor in WWE?

The Miz, of course.

Blue_Dabadee

I would go with WM 27 since the match that had the most build was Cole vs. Lawler.

Necro

Blue_Dabadee wrote: »

I would go with WM 27 since the match that had the most build was Cole vs. Lawler.

That match also went for WAAAAAY too long.

Itssoeasy

Kolido wrote: »

First one I watched live so kinda have a soft spot for it.

The one with Bam Bam and LT main eventing was bad iirc, 11 or 12?

11.

Monokne

Any suggestion of one of the modern Wrestlemanias being the worst is way off base. There's always at least one really strong match on the show, or several in the 3.5 - 4* region. And there tend to be some huge audience participation moments, as well as terrific visual spectacles. Go and sit through Wrestlemania 1, 2, 4, 5 etc. They just don't hold up.

Necro

Monokne wrote: »

Any suggestion of one of the modern Wrestlemanias being the worst is way off base. There's always at least one really strong match on the show, or several in the 3.5 - 4* region. And there tend to be some huge audience participation moments, as well as terrific visual spectacles. Go and sit through Wrestlemania 1, 2, 4, 5 etc. They just don't hold up.

I largely agree with this. Young lad is on a mad Cena binge at the moment and we watched the 28 and 29 main events VS The Rock.

28 is such a solid show, Punk and Jericho was a good if not great match too and the atmosphere for the first Rock/Cena match was class.

But 27.... it's soooo flat. It's definitely the poorest of the modern Manias (and it's not even that modern, it was 8 years ago this year now).

The rest have some redeeming features. 27 just doesn't, it failed on a lot of levels with the one exception really being The Rock hosting the show.

Monokne

Necro wrote: »

I largely agree with this. Young lad is on a mad Cena binge at the moment and we watched the 28 and 29 main events VS The Rock.

28 is such a solid show, Punk and Jericho was a good if not great match too and the atmosphere for the first Rock/Cena match was class.

But 27.... it's soooo flat. It's definitely the poorest of the modern Manias (and it's not even that modern, it was 8 years ago this year now).

The rest have some redeeming features. 27 just doesn't, it failed on a lot of levels with the one exception really being The Rock hosting the show.

I do have 27 pegged in my head as the worst of the last decade. The Taker match was great though.

I was at 28, my last WM live to date. Terrific show. The Cell match was great, the main event was incredible and I was a huuuuge Punk fan at the time so loved that match.

[Deleted User]

Aside from the usual shouts of WrestleMania 17 and 19, what else tops your lists?

I love 14

-WM14 had a pretty good concept opener with a tag team battle royal.

-Two hot feuds for the Intercontinental and European titles with The Rock vs Ken Shamrock and then Owen Hart vs HHH.

-Even the "filler" mixed Tag of Sable/Mero vs Goldust/Luna had heat.

- The Dumpster match between the Outlaws vs Cactus/Chainsaw was a great programme and unique match type.

-Then you had a pretty sweet juniors style match with Taka vs the future Essa Rios.

-Main events of Taker vs Kane was huge on storylines and a great spectacle and pay off and then the historic Austin/HBK/Tyson stuff was legendary. Austin era beginning, last of Michaels for 4 years and a white hot crowd.

Necro

Omackeral wrote:

Aside from the usual shouts of WrestleMania 17 and 19, what else tops your lists?

21 was a good show, was really the start of a new era that everyone was happy with for a little while at least.

Had Cena and JBL which the crowd was hot for.

Batista and HHH again was a good match and the right person won.

Undertaker and Randy Orton had a great story here too (arguably Orton had a case here that he should have won, it would have cemented him as a top heel).

I have fond memories of 25 for some reason too but mainly Taker VS HBK part 1 tbh.

As I said above too on a recent review Mania 28 is a very good card as well. Probably my most recent favourite.

I remember really enjoying XXX as well at the time, same as 20.

leggo

24 is a ridiculously good show to watch back and still holds up to this day. From top to bottom it blows you away. Nearly up there with 17 in that respect.

[Deleted User]

leggo wrote: »

24 is a ridiculously good show to watch back and still holds up to this day. From top to bottom it blows you away. Nearly up there with 17 in that respect.

Loved 24. Probably rounds out my Top 5 to be honest.

That years MITB ladder match was all kinds of awesome with some real up and comers you felt at the time in Carlito, CM Punk, MVP, John Morrison and Mr Kennedy. Morrison stole the show and then you had a white hot Matt Hardy run in.

They did a fantastic celeb match with Floyd Mayweather vs Big Show where they had the foresight to call an audible and do a double turn during the programme.

Streak vs Title with Taker vs Edge is probably Edge's best ever match in my opinion.

Who could forget ''I'm sorry, I love you'' between HBK and Naitch?

But the best spot of the entire night and possibly ever was in the opener when Finlay took on JBL in a Belfast Brawl and this happened...

The White Wolf

CastorTroy wrote: »

The Miz, of course.

Can't get away from him myself.

Itssoeasy

Yesterday was the 20th Anniversary of the Big Show debuting in the WWE. He debuted during the Austin vs McMahon cage match at St. Valentine's Day Massacre. The one moment from that match I still wince at is vince hitting the edge of the table. For the owner of the company to do that was impressive then and now.

Today is the 15th anniversary of Eddie Guerrero winning the WWE title against Brock Lesnar at No Way Out 2004. I remember where I was, and who I was with watching that live.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Necro wrote: »

I largely agree with this. Young lad is on a mad Cena binge at the moment and we watched the 28 and 29 main events VS The Rock.

28 is such a solid show, Punk and Jericho was a good if not great match too and the atmosphere for the first Rock/Cena match was class.

But 27.... it's soooo flat. It's definitely the poorest of the modern Manias (and it's not even that modern, it was 8 years ago this year now).

The rest have some redeeming features. 27 just doesn't, it failed on a lot of levels with the one exception really being The Rock hosting the show.

Punk, Orton is the only decent match I can remember off hand from 27.

I remember being hugely disappointed with Edge and Del Rio. They had built ADR up superbly over 5 months and then let him fall flat on his face, losing clean in the middle of the ring. It killed him stone dead.

Edit: Actually Taker and HHH was also pretty good imo. Probably their best match out of the 3 they've had together at Mania.

grames_bond

27 also deserves a pass for the amazing Miz "you can hate me now" video package!

WWE at their very best there!

leggo

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Edit: Actually Taker and HHH was also pretty good imo. Probably their best match out of the 3 they've had together at Mania.

I dunno. Every time I watch their HIAC I get ridiculously conflicted that it might be my favourite Mania match ever, but I don’t want to mess with the memories I havebof Austin/Rock 17 or the triple threat at 20, so I just stop thinking. It’s amazing though.

Necro

leggo wrote: »

I dunno. Every time I watch their HIAC I get ridiculously conflicted that it might be my favourite Mania match ever, but I don’t want to mess with the memories I havebof Austin/Rock 17 or the triple threat at 20, so I just stop thinking. It’s amazing though.

HBK/Jericho (at 19 I think?) and HBK/Angle are up there for me as some of my fave Mania matches too.

Oh what the heck I'm going on a Mania match binge now I'm off work for a few days

leggo

Necro wrote: »

HBK/Jericho (at 19 I think?) and HBK/Angle are up there for me as some of my fave Mania matches too.

Oh what the heck I'm going on a Mania match binge now I'm off work for a few days

Always feel like I’m missing something with HBK/Jericho because a lot of people say that! But HBK/Angle was fantastic. Just a sprint from two of the GOATs from bell to bell

ERG89

The one thing I absolutely don't like about the Taker vs HHH/Hbk matches is that they introduced this trend of kicking out of the opponents signature often several times that WWE (in particular) went to town with for years afterwards.

Necro

leggo wrote: »

Always feel like I’m missing something with HBK/Jericho because a lot of people say that! But HBK/Angle was fantastic. Just a sprint from two of the GOATs from bell to bell

I think it's the false finishes at the end. And Jericho as the jilted lover at the end teasing a handshake was just classic.

Their feud in later years was probably better but that was their best match together in my opinion. I loved the Royal Rumble switch with Christian that had HBK eliminated in the run up to the 19 match too. Jericho was such a hateful bastard at the time! :pac:

grames_bond

leggo wrote: »

I dunno. Every time I watch their HIAC I get ridiculously conflicted that it might be my favourite Mania match ever, but I don’t want to mess with the memories I havebof Austin/Rock 17 or the triple threat at 20, so I just stop thinking. It’s amazing though.

For me the HIAC will always be their best (and not just because I was there for it!) It was just story telling at it's very best, everything from the cell getting it's own entrance, to conflicted HBK, to the quality of the match itself was just brilliant!)

sky88

I never got so caught up in a match then that HIAC with trips/taker absolutely love it

Itssoeasy

I'll have to watch the manias in the 20's now to refresh my memory now lads. The Jericho vs HBK match from 19 was brilliant. Leggo is it you don't get it because even though 19 was second only to 17 in my mind in terms of best cards ever, the event itself didn't do well.

The White Wolf

ERG89 wrote: »

The one thing I absolutely don't like about the Taker vs HHH/Hbk matches is that they introduced this trend of kicking out of the opponents signature often several times that WWE (in particular) went to town with for years afterwards.

Yeah not a fan of that. Was bad in the AJ and Cena feud as well.

Rollins is another culprit who pulls out these massive moves to little effect.

briany

The false finish, used very sparingly, can add a whole other level of drama to a match.

Used liberally it just totally devalues finishing moves.

WWE, to be fair, only really use the device in a couple of their biggest PPVs, but it does lead the experienced viewer to say, "Well, this is Wrestlemania, so there are going to be a lot of kick-outs in the main events"

Not only is it predictable, but it shows how little the WWE thinks outside the box when it comes to storytelling. You'd expect Undertaker and Shawn Michaels, above all, to know that.

DM_7

Monokne wrote: »

Any suggestion of one of the modern Wrestlemanias being the worst is way off base. There's always at least one really strong match on the show, or several in the 3.5 - 4* region. And there tend to be some huge audience participation moments, as well as terrific visual spectacles. Go and sit through Wrestlemania 1, 2, 4, 5 etc. They just don't hold up.

Not holding up and just outright bad for the time they took place might not be the same.

Were expectations high for those events? Should they have been better when they actually took place?

SureYWouldntYa

28 and 30 were both very good I found, best of the last 10 years for sure with 30 probably just edging it

2 of the most memorable moments of all time at 30, the streak being broken and Daniel Bryan's main event

A good ending really makes an event for me, especially for Mania since the end or the main event as a whole is what I'll think of, it's why I never consider the likes of 29, 32 and 34 to be good Manias since the endings were all so poor

Itssoeasy

DM_7 wrote: »

Not holding up and just outright bad for the time they took place might not be the same.

Were expectations high for those events? Should they have been better when they actually took place?

1 and 2 probably haven't aged well given they are over thirty years ago but 4 and 5 did well I think financially given it was a smaller venue but the ticket prices were way higher than the first three given it was held in a casino and all that brings. I didn't help the atmosphere on either and mania 4 as I said just went on and on.