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Gate Automation wit IoT button

john_doe.

Hi,

I was wondering does anyone use IoT buttons for gate automation or similar?
Was looking to mount one in car , so can just have an easy button to press, however from what i see they are wifi only and my wifi would not stretch to outside gate. therefore I'm guessing they would not work.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AWS-IoT-Button-2nd-Generation/dp/B0727NW8HT/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1549195548&sr=8-1&keywords=dash+button+aws

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john_doe.

john_doe. wrote: »

The flic button sounds like exactly what I need.
So it links via Bluetooth to phone and can uses the 4G on phone to send open signal?

Hey sorry to dig up an old thread.
Looking at replicating this. It only works with Android I take it?
Looks like flic can't access iPhone control.

2011

The high horse brigade wrote: »

They all do. An automated gate is treated like a piece of machinery. The manufacturers provide all the signage and documentation.

I know some do, I also know some don’t.
I was wondering how many do.

It's now a very regulated industry.

I would rather see a formal qualification being required just like RGI.

The high horse brigade

2011 wrote: »

According to the HSA guidelines the gate installer must CE mark the gate system and produce a technical file for same. I wonder how many actually do this?

They all do. An automated gate is treated like a piece of machinery. The manufacturers provide all the signage and documentation. It's now a very regulated industry.

2011

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Most gate motors are low voltage and are beyond a fused spur. Electrical safety is not the main concern here. Gates are very dangerous, even the most basic gate motor has the power to do serious damage if installed without proper safety planning and the installing proper safety systems. There have been several deaths, I've seen the case studies of how these happened and in all cases it's the disregard for safety standards that was the cause (except for one death here in Ireland where a gate actually fell on someone)

I agree with all of the above.

I accept your point that the main risk is not electrical, I tend to focus on the electrical because it is my area. I should have explained myself better, my personal preference is that the electrical and control aspect including interlocks are installed by a qualified electrician. The mechanical aspect (where much of the risk is) needs to be handled by someone that knows what they are doing and unfortunately there is no formal qualification for this, unlike the electrical aspect. As stated above, PSA membership should not be confused with a qualification or attainment with a level of competence for the installation of automated gates.

It is important to note that just because electric gates are generally fed from a spur outlet and are low voltage does not mean that electrocution is no longer a risk. "Low Voltage" is a technical term which refers to voltages of up to 1000 volts. A spur outlet can be fused up to 13A, well above the 0.05 amps that is accepted as the value that can kill someone if it were to flow through them.

According to the HSA guidelines the gate installer must CE mark the gate system and produce a technical file for same. I wonder how many actually do this?

The high horse brigade

2011 wrote: »

Where did I say that?
What I am saying is that automated gates are not just installed for security.

Correct.
PSA membership is not a qualification nor is a qualification required to join.

However I was wrong in my earlier post as BK has highlighted, automated gates must be installed by a PSA registered installer. My bad.

However my recommendation based on safety is to ensure that the PSA installer is a qualified electrician.

I've done several gate safety training and installer training courses for work and we are PSA registered. Most gate motors are low voltage and are beyond a fused spur. Electrical safety is not the main concern here. Gates are very dangerous, even the most basic gate motor has the power to do serious damage if installed without proper safety planning and the installing proper safety systems. There have been several deaths, I've seen the case studies of how these happened and in all cases it's the disregard for safety standards that was the cause (except for one death here in Ireland where a gate actually fell on someone)

degsie

2011 wrote: »

Oooops!!

Refreshing to see somebody admit they were wrong.

2011

Rew wrote: »

Its a pretty big stretch of the imagination to say an automated gate isn't an access control device.

Where did I say that?
What I am saying is that automated gates are not just installed for security.

Automated gates on a farm for cows come under HSA regs which don't mention PSA registration but does say suitably qualified installers.

Correct.
PSA membership is not a qualification nor is a qualification required to join.

However I was wrong in my earlier post as BK has highlighted, automated gates must be installed by a PSA registered installer. My bad.

However my recommendation based on safety is to ensure that the PSA installer is a qualified electrician.

Rew

2011 wrote: »

....only of the gates are security gates, because the PSA is the Private Security Authority.
An electric gate may be used to stop cattle for example. Besides most are designed to be easily opened in the event of power failure using a triangle shaped key similar to those used for ESB meter cabinets (as such not secure by any metric).

The same applies to CCTV, if installed for security it must be installed by a PSA licensed installer. However a farmer requiring a calving camera does not have to use a PSA installer.

Its a pretty big stretch of the imagination to say an automated gate isn't an access control device. Automated gates on a farm for cows come under HSA regs which don't mention PSA registration but does say suitably qualified installers.

2011

bk wrote: »

This would seem to suggest that Automatic Gates fall under the PSA:

https://www.psa.gov.ie/en/PSA/PSA%2060%20Access%20Gates.pdf/Files/PSA%2060%20Access%20Gates.pdf

Oooops!!

This would seem to suggest that Automatic Gates fall under the PSA:

https://www.psa.gov.ie/en/PSA/PSA%2060%20Access%20Gates.pdf/Files/PSA%2060%20Access%20Gates.pdf

2011

Rew wrote: »

You have to have a PSA licence to install, work on and service electric gates.

....only of the gates are security gates, because the PSA is the Private Security Authority.
An electric gate may be used to stop cattle for example. Besides most are designed to be easily opened in the event of power failure using a triangle shaped key similar to those used for ESB meter cabinets (as such not secure by any metric).

The same applies to CCTV, if installed for security it must be installed by a PSA licensed installer. However a farmer requiring a calving camera does not have to use a PSA installer.

Rew

degsie wrote: »

Do you need a qualified installer for all things electric gate?

You have to have a PSA licence to install, work on and service electric gates. Employing a non-PSA one to work on your gate is an offence.

I've sliding one and they are terrifyingly (potentially) dangerous, I read about at least 2 kids killed by them last year. Mine has multiple safety edges, infrared sensor and torque sensor and retaining brackets but I still keep the kids away from it.

All the safety gear would be active even with an IoT integration so it shouldn't add any extra risk. Possibly less risky as its easy to accidentally trigger the radio fobs from your pocket. My installers were open to setting anything up I wanted or coming back in the future to do it.

I looked at Doorbird but the reviews were too mixed for me to go for it, if it isn't working then you don't know someones outside ringing your bell etc, ill wait a bit longer for something more solid. Nello looks good and fits in parallel with your intercom so not critical if it fails or is flaky. Its not as full featured as a Doorbird though.

Wouldn't be hard to DIY up something for remote open/close with a Rasberry Pi either.

Stoner

john_doe. wrote:

I was wondering does anyone use IoT buttons for gate automation or similar? Was looking to mount one in car , so can just have an easy button to press, however from what i see they are wifi only and my wifi would not stretch to outside gate. therefore I'm guessing they would not work.

If you have intercom in the house with a phone or gate open button, you can get access to those gate open contact, it's essentially a door bell

You'd have your device inside you wifi zone not at the gate

Stoner

I've a button on my phone for the gate.

I've a lightwaverf relay in my gate intercom phone that replicates the push to make gate open contact

Lightwaverf is ifttt compliant
I made an event to

Open
Set timer 2 seconds
Close

The event is called "open gate"

So you make an iot button. Or better still
say
"Ok Google open gate"

I never used the button much

Iftt can be slow sometimes too

2011

degsie wrote: »

Thinking more in terms of safety where there are kids/pets in the proximity of remote controlled gates.

From a safety perspective my advice would be to employ an electrician as they have a recognized technical qualification that takes 4 years training gain.

At the other end of the spectrum there are some whose only “qualification” is that they have completed a random 1/2 day course thrown together by a supplier that just wants to shift product. They then declare themselves to be the only ones qualified to do this work as they are now “automated gate engineers”. This so called qualification is not accredited and although not completely useless would not compare favorably to the safety and technical training that an electrician would receive.

I am of course generalizing so there are exceptions to the above.

degsie

2011 wrote: »

There is no official qualification any half descent sparks should be up to the task.
A PSA license is sometimes required, of course this would only apply if the gates were installed for security reasons. Some may argue that they are installed for other reasons.

Thinking more in terms of safety where there are kids/pets in the proximity of remote controlled gates.

dendof

john_doe. wrote: »

So what does the Flic button do, you press the button and it goes over internet to a cloud server to trigger the gate to open?

Sorry getting confused on how the phone number is related to Flic functionality , I thought they would be separate.

The Flic button triggers the phone to make a call via bluetooth connection. Phone starts to ring 'Gates' @087xxxxxx. Gate sim recognises my number as 'safe'. Gates open. Hope this makes sense now

john_doe.

dendof wrote: »

My gates have an actual phone number. You can add safe numbers to list to allow them to open gates.
Does your gates have a number? Flic would work for this

So what does the Flic button do, you press the button and it goes over internet to a cloud server to trigger the gate to open?

Sorry getting confused on how the phone number is related to Flic functionality , I thought they would be separate.

2011

degsie wrote: »

Do you need a qualified installer for all things electric gate?

There is no official qualification any half descent sparks should be up to the task.
A PSA license is sometimes required, of course this would only apply if the gates were installed for security reasons. Some may argue that they are installed for other reasons.

dendof

john_doe. wrote: »

The flic button sounds like exactly what I need.
So it links via Bluetooth to phone and can uses the 4G on phone to send open signal?

My gates have an actual phone number. You can add safe numbers to list to allow them to open gates.
Does your gates have a number? Flic would work for this

degsie

Do you need a qualified installer for all things electric gate?

john_doe.

dendof wrote: »

My gates open if I ring them from my phone, or use fob.
I have a Flic button in car which is connected via bluetooth to my phone.
Works great for me, not sure it meets your needs.

The flic button sounds like exactly what I need.
So it links via Bluetooth to phone and can uses the 4G on phone to send open signal?

Dazzy

The Doorbird Video Doorbell has a gate opening function. It supports both Wifi and Ethernet.

dendof

My gates open if I ring them from my phone, or use fob.
I have a Flic button in car which is connected via bluetooth to my phone.
Works great for me, not sure it meets your needs.