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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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Roger Hassenforder

Another view of it

leahyl

Are they resurfacing all the lower road and Horgan’s Quay soon? The state of that stretch of road is absolutely shocking - what is going on? There seems to be activity happening after 6pm each evening but nothing is different the next morning! What exactly are they doing there?

rounders

leahyl wrote: »

Are they resurfacing all the lower road and Horgan’s Quay soon? The state of that stretch of road is absolutely shocking - what is going on? There seems to be activity happening after 6pm each evening but nothing is different the next morning! What exactly are they doing there?

Possibly Irish water upgrades

ofcork

An application has been made to city council for an upgrade to merchants quay centre decision due in march.

hans aus dtschl

WoolyJumper wrote: »

I don't hate it....just seems very random for a 14 story building to be build in Glanmire, let alone in that spot.

Speaking of Glanmire, any idea when these road upgrades are suppose to start? I've noticed they started the ground works for Ballinglanna. If that building gets the go ahead plus the Ballinglanna development there is going to a lot of extra traffic around Glanmire. It's already mad as it is.

In those planned road upgrades, the section of road in the pic you posted will simultaneously be pedestrian priority, cyclist priority and car priority and they're putting in a new direct route for motorists to get from there to the Aldi, paving over the current walking route, presumably to encourage people to drive rather than walk. It should really solve the traffic problems (sarcasm).

Markcheese

ofcork wrote: »

An application has been made to city council for an upgrade to merchants quay centre decision due in march.

Any idea what they want to do to it?

[Deleted User]

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

In those planned road upgrades, the section of road in the pic you posted will simultaneously be pedestrian priority, cyclist priority and car priority and they're putting in a new direct route for motorists to get from there to the Aldi, paving over the current walking route, presumably to encourage people to drive rather than walk. It should really solve the traffic problems (sarcasm).

What traffic problems in Glanmire?

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What traffic problems in Glanmire?

At peak times it clogs up,

[Deleted User]

Markcheese wrote: »

At peak times it clogs up,

I was missing a /s or

in that post

The place is can clog up at 11am on a Saturday FFS

hans aus dtschl

Deleted User wrote: »

I was missing a /s or in that post

The place is can clog up at 11am on a Saturday FFS

I was wondering if you were serious.
It's a little car-dependent satellite town. Presumably the same County planners that planned Douglas.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I was wondering if you were serious.
It's a little car-dependent satellite town. Presumably the same County planners that planned Douglas.

If public transport improved, more frequent buses, possibly a train station, people would be less car-dependent. Hopefully we see this in the future.

[Deleted User]

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I was wondering if you were serious.
It's a little car-dependent satellite town. Presumably the same County planners that planned Douglas.

Glanmire is a hangover from horse and coach days to be fair. It should never have been developed beyond sleepy village.
It's sitting in the bottom of a narrow valley with no way to, really, improve access.

Markcheese

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

If public transport improved, more frequent buses, possibly a train station, people would be less car-dependent. Hopefully we see this in the future.

Where would you put a train station?, (and line)
The bus service isn't bad.. (Well into the city centre anyway), but the buses get stuck in the same traffic as everyone else..

ofcork

Markcheese wrote: »

Any idea what they want to do to it?

Change of use of kylemore to licenced restaurant with new entrance/lift from Patrick st and changes to exterior on both Patrick st and merchants quay side.

[Deleted User]

ofcork wrote: »

Change of use of kylemore to licenced restaurant with new entrance/lift from Patrick st and changes to exterior on both Patrick st and merchants quay side.

Changes to quay side? Would be great to have store access there, with some bars or cafés. Open up that entire section of quayside

Well that can be done now that you don't gawk with the smell of the pre late 90s

hans aus dtschl

Markcheese wrote: »

Where would you put a train station?, (and line)
The bus service isn't bad.. (Well into the city centre anyway), but the buses get stuck in the same traffic as everyone else..

I think they could perhaps bring the train up the valley by raising the Dunkettle roundabout for motorised traffic and having the train go under the roundabout at-grade. Provide a cycle/pedestrian greenway directly beside the train. South of Glanmire village, at about the grotto, the train could cross the mud flat and a station could be located behind the existing business park, possibly on the opposite side of the river. Would be ideal for the new O'Flynn housing development. Where it begins to get really difficult is from here on north (to Riverstown) as the existing bridge is definitely a protected structure and the houses on either side of the river might be protected.

North of that bridge is straightforward again, but would require CPO of the playing fields. Riverstown Station could be near Lidl.

Tight curves all round, but no more than Kent station from what I can make out.

It's all a far-fetched idea but I don't think it's impossible from an engineering perspective.

Frostybrew

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I think they could perhaps bring the train up the valley by raising the Dunkettle roundabout for motorised traffic and having the train go under the roundabout at-grade. Provide a cycle/pedestrian greenway directly beside the train. South of Glanmire village, at about the grotto, the train could cross the mud flat and a station could be located behind the existing business park, possibly on the opposite side of the river. Would be ideal for the new O'Flynn housing development. Where it begins to get really difficult is from here on north (to Riverstown) as the existing bridge is definitely a protected structure and the houses on either side of the river might be protected.

North of that bridge is straightforward again, but would require CPO of the playing fields. Riverstown Station could be near Lidl.

Tight curves all round, but no more than Kent station from what I can make out.

It's all a far-fetched idea but I don't think it's impossible from an engineering perspective.

Rail would be fantastic; but you are correct, it's too far fetched. A big problem for this type of route is it runs though a low population density area for about two miles till you reach Riverstown, as most of the residential areas south of Riverstown are either side of the valley on the hills and not easily accessible.
It would be more feasible from Riverstown as far as Sarsfields Court, but still not ideal.

The best scenario for the Glanmire area would be more bus routes. Connections to the city centre are good (the 221). In addition an extension of the 201 with a much enhanced frequency would do wonders for connectivity to the Northside, as would a shorter route connecting the Glanmire area to Little Island. One other route that could be considered would be a route from Glanmire to Southside locations such as Mahon Point, Douglas, and the Airport. The big advantage of buses is you can route them through the many sprawling housing estates that make up the Glanmire area.

Markcheese

We tend to rule out the humble bus (often with good reason)...
There is a lot that could be done to improve bus reliability, and service, and a lot of it comes down to treating buses like trams...
Give buses the same type of ticketing and access, similar style stops/ platforms,thought out routes and bus lanes,
And similar style policing of cars using and parking in bus stops and lanes,
And a bit more reliability from bus providers would help...
Just don't hold out for rails in most places..

WoolyJumper

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I think they could perhaps bring the train up the valley by raising the Dunkettle roundabout for motorised traffic and having the train go under the roundabout at-grade. Provide a cycle/pedestrian greenway directly beside the train. South of Glanmire village, at about the grotto, the train could cross the mud flat and a station could be located behind the existing business park, possibly on the opposite side of the river. Would be ideal for the new O'Flynn housing development. Where it begins to get really difficult is from here on north (to Riverstown) as the existing bridge is definitely a protected structure and the houses on either side of the river might be protected.

North of that bridge is straightforward again, but would require CPO of the playing fields. Riverstown Station could be near Lidl.

Tight curves all round, but no more than Kent station from what I can make out.

It's all a far-fetched idea but I don't think it's impossible from an engineering perspective.

Probably more realistic would be a light rail (though still very unlikely) It could have either a stop in Hazelwood or Riverstown Cross (or both) and carry on though Glanmire Village to join up with the main rail line at Tivoli. It would still meet traffic in Glanmire Village but at least you could avoid traffic along tivoli and lower glanmire road. Perhaps a combination of the 2 to avoid the traffic in Glanmire Village. Light rail to the Station in the business park and from there the rail line is extended to tivoli

Realistically though if they are going have a light rail system on that side of the city then it would be more beneficial to go through areas like Ballyvolane, Mayfield and Blackpool which would mean to reach Glanmire it would need to go down by New Inn and Barnavara which is basically country side so again very far fetched. Because Glanmire is in the middle of a Valley it's never really going to bleed into the other city suburbs.

Of course it's all fantasy. To be honest I'd settle for a bus that went to the Southside and linked with Mahon etc

hans aus dtschl

I suspect most locals would be satisfied with a reliable bus service. Sometimes the bus doesn't show up at the terminus for over 50 minutes (for a 30 minute planned frequency, that's relatively poor). The company usually blames traffic, but there are a number of other issues also.

If you combined bus with a transit hub in Dunkettle/Tivoli it would be very powerful. You'd need Bus Éireann and Iarnród Éireann singing from the same hymn sheet rather than competing for passengers, so the concept would need to come from NTA or council.

namloc1980

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I suspect most locals would be satisfied with a reliable bus service. Sometimes the bus doesn't show up at the terminus for over 50 minutes (for a 30 minute planned frequency, that's relatively poor). The company usually blames traffic, but there are a number of other issues also.

If you combined bus with a transit hub in Dunkettle/Tivoli it would be very powerful. You'd need Bus Éireann and Iarnród Éireann singing from the same hymn sheet rather than competing for passengers, so the concept would need to come from NTA or council.

The Glanmire bus service will always be rubbish because unfortunately it has to travel on the same roads as the rest of the traffic, especially going through Tivoli and Lower Glanmire Rd it is painful in a car during peak times so is inevitably going to be even shower on a bus as it has to stop to pickup and drop off passengers s well as slowly move in the traffic.

namloc1980

Saw this a few days ago. Proposal to co-locate the bus station with the train station. https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Councillor-proposes-moving-Parnell-Place-bus-station-to-Kent-Station-to-create-a-single-Cork-transport-hub

What a novel idea - a single transport hub. And with the huge future development of the docklands/Navigation Square/Horgan's Quay it makes sense. What I find unreal is the amount of negative comments on twitter and Facebook about this potential idea.

hans aus dtschl

namloc1980 wrote: »

The Glanmire bus service will always be rubbish because unfortunately it has to travel on the same roads as the rest of the traffic, especially going through Tivoli and Lower Glanmire Rd it is painful in a car during peak times so is inevitably going to be even shower on a bus as it has to stop to pickup and drop off passengers s well as slowly move in the traffic.

Inbound, I fully accept there's little they can do about the traffic and the journey duration.
But that doesn't necessarily explain lack of buses at the Glanmire terminus: management must know they're not getting the buses outbound (because of lack of buses available in the city). Without specific bus lane provision - which won't happen any time soon - they possibly need a fleet/driver increase to compensate at peak times.

hans aus dtschl

namloc1980 wrote: »

Saw this a few days ago. Proposal to co-locate the bus station with the train station. https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Councillor-proposes-moving-Parnell-Place-bus-station-to-Kent-Station-to-create-a-single-Cork-transport-hub

What a novel idea - a single transport hub. And with the huge future development of the docklands/Navigation Square/Horgan's Quay it makes sense. What I find unreal is the amount of negative comments on twitter and Facebook about this potential idea.

The two companies own their own infrastructure, so the municipality would need to pay for such a piece of infrastructure. Our government is in favour of transport privatisation, and this is the logical outcome of that.

TheChizler

namloc1980 wrote: »

Saw this a few days ago. Proposal to co-locate the bus station with the train station. https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Councillor-proposes-moving-Parnell-Place-bus-station-to-Kent-Station-to-create-a-single-Cork-transport-hub

What a novel idea - a single transport hub. And with the huge future development of the docklands/Navigation Square/Horgan's Quay it makes sense. What I find unreal is the amount of negative comments on twitter and Facebook about this potential idea.

I dunno, I find getting to the train station enough of a trek as it is, I'm not sure moving our biggest public transport hub further out of the city in favour of building more apartments in the centre would do much to encourage take-up.

Isn't the bus station a protected building anyway?

marno21

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The two companies own their own infrastructure, so the municipality would need to pay for such a piece of infrastructure. Our government is in favour of transport privatisation, and this is the logical outcome of that.

Is it?

Shedite27

namloc1980 wrote: »

Saw this a few days ago. Proposal to co-locate the bus station with the train station. https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Councillor-proposes-moving-Parnell-Place-bus-station-to-Kent-Station-to-create-a-single-Cork-transport-hub

What a novel idea - a single transport hub. And with the huge future development of the docklands/Navigation Square/Horgan's Quay it makes sense. What I find unreal is the amount of negative comments on twitter and Facebook about this potential idea.

Do/would many use it to transfer between transport tho?

It's moving the bus station further from the city for what benefit? The few who transfer? Saving on utilities? Doesn't seem worth it. It's only a 7/8 min walk anyway.

namloc1980

TheChizler wrote: »

I dunno, I find getting to the train station enough of a trek as it is, I'm not sure moving our biggest public transport hub further out of the city in favour of building more apartments in the centre would do much to encourage take-up.

Isn't the bus station a protected building anyway?

Jaysus it's 600m not a trek across Antarctica!

Clearly the future of Cork is in the Docklands and Tivoli so this would put a transport hub slap bang in the middle of the expanded city. Also couple that with a high frequency East West corridor and access to the rest of the city would be easier not harder.

hans aus dtschl

marno21 wrote: »

Is it?

I'm not sure whether you mean "is it a logical outcome" or "is it in favour of transport privatisation".
But...
If the former, then yes:
Good practice when privatising is to retain the network assets within control of the government (think the gas/electricity/water distribution networks) but allow supply to be privatised.
Privatising the network control results in Enron type situations and is clearly not good for the public.
With the breakup of CIE, IE retained Kent, whereas BE retained Parnell Place and Capwell. They are duty-bound to maximise return for their shareholders and in doing so they compete with each other on routes. If IE allowed BE into Kent rent-free then all of the competition would also want to be allowed in there, and since some of these actively compete with IE (GoBus, AirCoach, etc) it'd be bad for their own business. So they clearly won't ever do it: they'll logically gouge their competitors, who will logically not want to use the asset. If it's a municipal asset (network owned by the government) then all competitors are treated and licensed equally.

If it's the latter, then yes:
It started with the breakup of CIE and later the introduction of other bus companies on previously "public service" routes. They're in favour of private operators for the train network, but it's cost prohibitive for any private operators. LUAS went out to public tender and legacy Dublin Bus routes were tendered recently. The current favoured approach is towards privatisation of the public transport system.

namloc1980

Shedite27 wrote: »

Do/would many use it to transfer between transport tho?

It's moving the bus station further from the city for what benefit? The few who transfer? Saving on utilities? Doesn't seem worth it. It's only a 7/8 min walk anyway.

Multimodal transportation hubs benefit a city hugely. It's why they are a very common feature in transport systems that are recognised as being efficient and well run. Imagine have a transport hub with buses, trains, future BRT/LRT all converging in one location. Anyway most city buses don't even go to the bus station as it is.

The argument against it ranges from, it's too much of a "trek" to "it's only a 7/8 min walk anyway".