HKC VS Siemens App Discussion Stickey Temp

Now with respect 2011, I have asked you over and over again, what is a PSA risk assessment, because I have never heard of one until now, nor have i ever seen one.

Now i noticed that KoolKid has been thanking your posts so maybe he might have some idea, so would one of you mind please telling me more about these PSA Risk Assessments.

2011 wrote: »

This alone is enough for me to loose faith in these risk assessments.

^^^This statement of your does more to undermine PSA risk assessments than anything I have ever said.
Case closed, move on.

Again, with reference to your above selective quotes, could you please tell me what a PSA Risk Assessment is ?

Yup

2011 wrote: »

That's two agreements in a row, seems like a record

No maybe its late, maybe I am tired but the way you mentioned Inner Range earlier and suggested i look at one in UCD, my reply to you was I did not need to as I am quite familiar with Inner Range having installed them myself, so i am not sure what you are on about there ????

2011 wrote: »

The problem is that after changing it and agreeing with me you then reverted back to your previous position with this statement "I find that the convenience here losses out to the security. It always does". Now you seem to be agreeing with me again. I have lost track of your position on this. Either convenience always results in a security compromise or it doesn't, you can't have it both ways.

Well you can have it both ways actually, see I don't only do Intruder Alarms, I also do all the others like CCTV, Auto Gates, Access Control etc.

So when it comes to Intuder Alarms and the convenience of switching a system by App Control, once of course the user code has to be used to access the system, then yes that is convenient.

But when it comes to say, automatic gates and induction loops (ie, those underground detectors that detect the presence of vehicles and transmit a signal to the gate control unit to open the gates ), here we have a very convenient way of opening a set of gates while someone is approaching their gates from inside.
A dumb electronic circuit that reacts to a big lump of mental.
So how does that dumb electronic circuit know that the home owners car has just been hot wired and it is transmitting a signal to open those electronic gates.
See that is an example of convenience affecting security, if the induction loop was not there, then another means would need to used to open the gates, perhaps the car thieves had no knowledge of that other way.
But convenience has now resulted in them laughing as the driveway gates of the house in which they just robbed the car from are opening for them.

So I will recommend the convenience of the App, but I will not recommend the convenience of the induction loop.

So yes i can actually have it both ways.

2011 wrote: »

Yes, at the moment they target very different parts of the market.
But now they have both been bought out by very large companies that have very deep pockets. That means that this could change dramatically within a short space of time. This should be interesting.

That it could, we live in interesting times.

New SPC Version 391 is now available . This upgrade enables the use of the new Vanderbilt 2 way wireless devices
https://www.spcsupportinfo.com/SPCConnectPro/?page_id=7584

Can I just say:

I wandered into this discussion thread in the hope of educating myself before choosing an alarm system for my new home (pre-wired). I think I followed a link after trying to start from the beginning with no real insight or knowledge.

I have to say though my head hurts a little now. Not just because there is a lot to take in and I want to make the right choice. But also because, as well-intended as they might be, a lot of the comments here are loaded and seem more to be private grenades thrown at a professional / philosophical adversary, than any real objective insight.

As far as I can make out:

1: No system is perfect.
1: HKC is the (currently) the market leader.
3: The market is due a shake up with disrupters on the horizon.
4: Power cuts and GSM jammers are the enemy, both leading systems (GSD being the other?) have their individual weaknesses in this respect
5: Free versus paid for - I’d pay €60 per year if I thought that brought me more peace of mind. The one installer I spoke to deals with both systems mentioned above, and told me he’d be a bit wary of a system that isn’t charging in some ongoing basis, as he would want to know the servers are being properly maintained, etc.
6: I have already decided not to go down the (low upfront cost, high monthly cost) monitored option provided by PW, etc.
7: I would be open to wireless if that was the best long term solution, even though my house is prewired.
8: I would also really like some sleek, smart option, but being pragmatic I just don’t know if that option is readily available yet without compromising on security.
9: I am tinkering with the idea of putting a camera over the front driveway, and I don’t known if the above systems can integrate with this. (My moped was robbed recently, still fuming, but good push to finally get the home security sorted properly.)

Apologies, this has strayed from general observations on this thread to a more personal plea for help. I’m a nice guy, really ðŸ˜‰

Aside from my own situation, am I off the mark with any of the above?

vintagecosmos

Hello. I understand where you are coming from. I did the same as you. Read up on very thing. Spoke to 3 installers and reached out to people here on boards.

I had actually signed up with PW then pulled out (got refund).

I had used a HKC system for years. Basic system that was in rented apartment. It was fine. No issues. I didn't like the 1980s look of it. Push a button to record voice memo was just odd for me. Bar the UX though the system works. I didn't pay for the app so can't give feedback on it.

I went with Siemens Vanderbilt for my house. It was prewired. I trust the brand and felt it was superior. Having GSM / LAN connectivity provided peace of mind to me. The software and interface is pretty good and if the system goes down I get an email fast. I read here that HKC charge more to get a quicker notification of a down system.

The Vanderbilt app is easy to use and has never let me down. You can download it and see demo content. Just on it been free. Vanderbilt are a huge company and I would have no concerns over servers etc.

As a vanity thing more so, the keypad I got was the modern face with blue surround light. My keypad is quite visible so it was just an aesthetic. Be prepared to pay more for it though.

http://realsecurity.ie/2018/04/05/1333/keyboard-alarm-spck520-vanderbilt/

Gforcemurphy, excellent summary overall. A few points below.

NOTE: I'm not an installer, just an interested DIYer

Gforcemurphy wrote: »

5: Free versus paid for - I’d pay €60 per year if I thought that brought me more peace of mind. The one installer I spoke to deals with both systems mentioned above, and told me he’d be a bit wary of a system that isn’t charging in some ongoing basis, as he would want to know the servers are being properly maintained, etc.

I see where he is coming from, but I don't agree. €60 a year is quite a lot to maintain servers * Each alarm uses incredibly little in terms of data and server resources.

I've dozens of home automation devices that use cloud services and charge nothing for it. Philips Hue smart lights, Google Home devices, wifi smart plugs, smart remotes, smart thermostats, etc.

I even have an alarm system made by Yale, HKC's now sibling company, which uses cloud services and charges nothing for it!

Also keep in mind, some other alarm systems, the alarm panel itself is actually the server, there is no third party servers that need to be maintained. The alarm panel itself can send out emails and notify you of an alarm notification. I'm not 100%, but I think the Siemens system works in this manner.

* In fairness to HKC the fee does include the cost of a SIM card, so it isn't too bad from that aspect, probably fair enough in fact, though Honeywell charges just €20 per year (and first 2 years free) for the same on their systems. But I think HKC made a mistake basing their systems around GSM. IMO for how much these cost, they should offer free monitoring/app control via IP and GSM should then be an optional backup comms channel for the €60.

Gforcemurphy wrote: »

7: I would be open to wireless if that was the best long term solution, even though my house is prewired.

If prewired, better to use it. Cheaper and more reliable and less trouble (batteries). The main panels are hybrid anyway, which means they can do both wired and wireless.

Gforcemurphy wrote: »

9: I am tinkering with the idea of putting a camera over the front driveway, and I don’t known if the above systems can integrate with this. (My moped was robbed recently, still fuming, but good push to finally get the home security sorted properly.)

Most of the likes of HKC, Siemens, GSD, etc. can integrate cameras too.

Though I'd think about do you want to integrate the cameras? Personally I kept my cameras separate. I feel it gives you redundancy if your alarm system fails, you will still get notified by the cameras or vice versa.

Their is little downside to doing this IMO. It just means you have two separate apps on your phone, but not a big deal IME.

Also I want my external cameras running 24/7, even when the alarm is off and I'm home.

Gforcemurphy wrote: »

Can I just say:

I wandered into this discussion thread in the hope of educating myself before choosing an alarm system for my new home (pre-wired). I think I followed a link after trying to start from the beginning with no real insight or knowledge.

I have to say though my head hurts a little now. Not just because there is a lot to take in and I want to make the right choice. But also because, as well-intended as they might be, a lot of the comments here are loaded and seem more to be private grenades thrown at a professional / philosophical adversary, than any real objective insight.

As far as I can make out:

1: No system is perfect.
1: HKC is the (currently) the market leader.
3: The market is due a shake up with disrupters on the horizon.
4: Power cuts and GSM jammers are the enemy, both leading systems (GSD being the other?) have their individual weaknesses in this respect
5: Free versus paid for - I’d pay €60 per year if I thought that brought me more peace of mind. The one installer I spoke to deals with both systems mentioned above, and told me he’d be a bit wary of a system that isn’t charging in some ongoing basis, as he would want to know the servers are being properly maintained, etc.
6: I have already decided not to go down the (low upfront cost, high monthly cost) monitored option provided by PW, etc.
7: I would be open to wireless if that was the best long term solution, even though my house is prewired.
8: I would also really like some sleek, smart option, but being pragmatic I just don’t know if that option is readily available yet without compromising on security.
9: I am tinkering with the idea of putting a camera over the front driveway, and I don’t known if the above systems can integrate with this. (My moped was robbed recently, still fuming, but good push to finally get the home security sorted properly.)

Apologies, this has strayed from general observations on this thread to a more personal plea for help. I’m a nice guy, really &#55357;&#56841;

Aside from my own situation, am I off the mark with any of the above?

Hi

A good summary overall. Its really down to what you feel is most important and what the vulnerabilities are.
The Free vs Paid for will go on. But if you dig into it the only thing HKC have over GSD is text alerts. (be it alarms only) Thats 20 year old technology at this stage. GSD does also a the option of a paid for GSM/GPRS back up. Now if you compare paid vs paid the differences become more obvious.
In the event of all comms fail GSD can notify you in 5 minutes HKC is still 5 hours. The only benefit for your money with HKC is a text alert.
Siemens Vanderbilt is a good choice also . While SPC connect is a cloud based service the panel itself can work as a web server directly eliminating the concern of their servers being down. Siemens Vanderbilt also has the option of using your own SIM as a back up . Also a cheaper solution to the subscription models.

Gforcemurphy wrote: »

Can I just say:

I wandered into this discussion thread in the hope of educating myself before choosing an alarm system for my new home (pre-wired). I think I followed a link after trying to start from the beginning with no real insight or knowledge.

I have to say though my head hurts a little now. Not just because there is a lot to take in and I want to make the right choice. But also because, as well-intended as they might be, a lot of the comments here are loaded and seem more to be private grenades thrown at a professional / philosophical adversary, than any real objective insight.

As far as I can make out:

1: No system is perfect.
1: HKC is the (currently) the market leader.
3: The market is due a shake up with disrupters on the horizon.
4: Power cuts and GSM jammers are the enemy, both leading systems (GSD being the other?) have their individual weaknesses in this respect
5: Free versus paid for - I’d pay €60 per year if I thought that brought me more peace of mind. The one installer I spoke to deals with both systems mentioned above, and told me he’d be a bit wary of a system that isn’t charging in some ongoing basis, as he would want to know the servers are being properly maintained, etc.
6: I have already decided not to go down the (low upfront cost, high monthly cost) monitored option provided by PW, etc.
7: I would be open to wireless if that was the best long term solution, even though my house is prewired.
8: I would also really like some sleek, smart option, but being pragmatic I just don’t know if that option is readily available yet without compromising on security.
9: I am tinkering with the idea of putting a camera over the front driveway, and I don’t known if the above systems can integrate with this. (My moped was robbed recently, still fuming, but good push to finally get the home security sorted properly.)

Apologies, this has strayed from general observations on this thread to a more personal plea for help. I’m a nice guy, really ��

Aside from my own situation, am I off the mark with any of the above?

If the house is wired then wired is the way to go in terms of covering the perimeter.
Most system are hybrid now so adding wire free PIRs, smoke and carbon monoxide alarms if not cabled for would not be an issue.

The free versus paid will always come up when it comes to apps.
The HKC GSM is always on for alarm activation's meaning if you do get an alarm it will send over both paths to the server then onto your phone.

I would be wondering the same with regards of back up to using the free systems also.
I know HKC have a back up server in place for if one server goes down.
IMO every system should regardless of if its free or not as people are relying on a notification from the alarm system.

I find the text from the alarm system as well as the notification to be a good point too as if you are in a bad 3 or 4G area you will get text.
Ive seen this in some stores I've been in which wouldn't have great coverage for 3 or 4G.

The low upfront system are designed to tie you into the system and get the money back off you over the years of your contract.
In most cases you will end up paying more.

A camera system should be kept separate from your alarm, yes you can integrate into most systems on your alarm app.
The DVR or NVR should be kept out of sight tho as if an intruder takes this you may end up with no footage unless you have cloud storage.

Thanks everyone for the advice and feedback. Will check out Siemens / Vanderbilt as an option. Fair point re camera on a separate system.

I also got a brochure through the letterbox from Go Konnect, offering a ‘fully integrated smart home security system’, does thermostats etc as well. I have a feeling I may be straying off topic a bit but as sexy as this option might look, my gut is that it wouldn’t offer the same level of security as the ‘traditional’ brands discussed above?

Gforcemurphy wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the advice and feedback. Will check out Siemens / Vanderbilt as an option. Fair point re camera on a separate system.

I also got a brochure through the letterbox from Go Konnect, offering a ‘fully integrated smart home security system’, does thermostats etc as well. I have a feeling I may be straying off topic a bit but as sexy as this option might look, my gut is that it wouldn’t offer the same level of security as the ‘traditional’ brands discussed above?

The let down with the Vanderbilt panel is the lack of wire free Inertias.
Probably wont effect you now if all cables are working in your home.

Id be looking at what they cover with the Go Konnect.
Perimeter protection is always going to be better than a few PIRs around your home.
Also what they use on the windows, contacts only offer no real protection.
I do like the home automation side of the panel they use.

altor wrote: »

Id be looking at what they cover with the Go Konnect.
Perimeter protection is always going to be better than a few PIRs around your home.
Also what they use on the windows, contacts only offer no real protection.
I do like the home automation side of the panel they use.

Looks like a rebrand of the US company Alarm.com [1]

I'd be sow to tie my other Home Automation tech directly [2] into the alarm system and high ongoing subs. Most HA devices don't need a sub.

[1] I notice that shock sensors seem to be pretty unique to the UK and Ireland market, they seem to largely not exist in the US. Instead they seem to go for audible glass break sensors, curtain PIR's and external PIR's in the US for enhanced perimeter protection. Most systems seem ot just use PIR's and basic contact sensors.

I also notice that external bell boxes are pretty rare in the US!

[2] It is nice when you can indirectly integrate systems via the cloud, etc. For instance, if my Yale Alarm goes off, all my Hue Smart lights will start flashing red, turning the whole house into a SAAB

But they are still separate systems, so if I decide to change in future, I don't have to replace everything.

bk wrote: »

Looks like a rebrand of the US company Alarm.com [1]

I'd be sow to tie my other Home Automation tech directly [2] into the alarm system and high ongoing subs. Most HA devices don't need a sub.

[1] I notice that shock sensors seem to be pretty unique to the UK and Ireland market, they seem to largely not exist in the US. Instead they seem to go for audible glass break sensors, curtain PIR's and external PIR's in the US for enhanced perimeter protection. Most systems seem ot just use PIR's and basic contact sensors.

I also notice that external bell boxes are pretty rare in the US!

[2] It is nice when you can indirectly integrate systems via the cloud, etc. For instance, if my Yale Alarm goes off, all my Hue Smart lights will start flashing red, turning the whole house into a SAAB But they are still separate systems, so if I decide to change in future, I don't have to replace everything.

Id say you are correct as they are using Alarm.com.

That is correct, in Ireland we prefer to cover windows and doors with the back up of motion detectors.

I've the same with the wifi lights coming on when alarm goes off on my HKC 10270, its a nice feature.
I have the sub every year on the alarm anyway so its nice to be able to use it to do same.

The GoKonnect sales guy called out to the house the other day, nice guy and the product looks good, but I think the whole pricing strategy is a bit off-putting. €700 extra upfront payment if you go for the self-monitored option (with €120 per year for the GSM backup sim).

The monitored option is less upfront but €30 pm to monitor on a 3-year contract. Upfront payment is however comparable to what I might pay for a total non-monitored solution with HKC / Siemens etc.

Also, the contacts are all wireless, which feels like a waste of economy since my house is pre-wired. They don’t do shock sensors (and I’m told the contact sensors will go off if a window pane is smashed in, which makes no sense and goes against everything I’ve read).

The solution would incorporate 11 contacts downstairs (all doors and windows), 3 PIRs (one upstairs) and no contacts upstairs. I wouldn’t call the upstairs windows accessible, in fairness.

The whole system seems neat and pretty intuitive, but it feels like a hefty premium in exchange for this. I could link the system into smart locks, video doorbell, cameras, lighting and heating in time - that’s part of the sales spiel. (Except apparently the thermostat linking wouldn’t work for us as we’ve underfloor heating downstairs).

Plus it’s impossible to avoid the feeling that they’ve just jacked up the self-monitored price in order to make it seem like the monitored is a comparably more favourable option.

The sales guy was pretty keen to listen to my misgivings when I told him, and to do something on the price, but presumably his remit only goes so far on that front.

Any thoughts / experiences with this company?

Should I move this to another thread?

stuartkee

Yes my advice is follow the advice you have been given and install a pre wired alarm asap before you get broken into . Don't buy a toy buy a real alarm that rings and does what you want it to do not what a company wants it to do.

quote="Gforcemurphy;109438982"]The GoKonnect sales guy called out to the house the other day, nice guy and the product looks good, but I think the whole pricing strategy is a bit off-putting. €700 extra upfront payment if you go for the self-monitored option (with €120 per year for the GSM backup sim).

The monitored option is less upfront but €30 pm to monitor on a 3-year contract. Upfront payment is however comparable to what I might pay for a total non-monitored solution with HKC / Siemens etc.

Also, the contacts are all wireless, which feels like a waste of economy since my house is pre-wired. They don’t do shock sensors (and I’m told the contact sensors will go off if a window pane is smashed in, which makes no sense and goes against everything I’ve read).

The solution would incorporate 11 contacts downstairs (all doors and windows), 3 PIRs (one upstairs) and no contacts upstairs. I wouldn’t call the upstairs windows accessible, in fairness.

The whole system seems neat and pretty intuitive, but it feels like a hefty premium in exchange for this. I could link the system into smart locks, video doorbell, cameras, lighting and heating in time - that’s part of the sales spiel. (Except apparently the thermostat linking wouldn’t work for us as we’ve underfloor heating downstairs).

Plus it’s impossible to avoid the feeling that they’ve just jacked up the self-monitored price in order to make it seem like the monitored is a comparably more favourable option.

The sales guy was pretty keen to listen to my misgivings when I told him, and to do something on the price, but presumably his remit only goes so far on that front.

Any thoughts / experiences with this company?

Should I move this to another thread?[/quote]

Okay, sense a bit of impatience / patronising tone there but appreciate the feedback nonetheless. Think it’s a bit unfair to call it a toy, but sure look we all have our opinions and I did ask for people’s opinion after all. Just trying to find out what I can before I find the right solution, before I get broken into.

Cheers.

Gforcemurphy wrote: »

The GoKonnect sales guy called out to the house the other day, nice guy and the product looks good, but I think the whole pricing strategy is a bit off-putting. €700 extra upfront payment if you go for the self-monitored option (with €120 per year for the GSM backup sim).

The monitored option is less upfront but €30 pm to monitor on a 3-year contract. Upfront payment is however comparable to what I might pay for a total non-monitored solution with HKC / Siemens etc.

Also, the contacts are all wireless, which feels like a waste of economy since my house is pre-wired. They don’t do shock sensors (and I’m told the contact sensors will go off if a window pane is smashed in, which makes no sense and goes against everything I’ve read).

The solution would incorporate 11 contacts downstairs (all doors and windows), 3 PIRs (one upstairs) and no contacts upstairs. I wouldn’t call the upstairs windows accessible, in fairness.

The whole system seems neat and pretty intuitive, but it feels like a hefty premium in exchange for this. I could link the system into smart locks, video doorbell, cameras, lighting and heating in time - that’s part of the sales spiel. (Except apparently the thermostat linking wouldn’t work for us as we’ve underfloor heating downstairs).

Plus it’s impossible to avoid the feeling that they’ve just jacked up the self-monitored price in order to make it seem like the monitored is a comparably more favourable option.

The sales guy was pretty keen to listen to my misgivings when I told him, and to do something on the price, but presumably his remit only goes so far on that front.

Any thoughts / experiences with this company?

Should I move this to another thread?

That is how the upfront systems work, they get the money off you over the time you are in contract and extra if you keep it on.

If he told you the contact will pick up vibrations he is telling lies.
Contact will only show the window opening.

I do like the automation side of that panel but there are other ways of controlling devices even if its not linked to your alarm system.

An increase of over 40% on the way next month for HKC app usage.:eek:

Just confirmed this is not going ahead due to installers complaints.
HKC will be funding this by other means.
Prices to stay the same.

I was curious as to what the reference is to them installing fibre throughout Europe.
If their servers are in a data centre they don't need to worry about fibre.

vintagecosmos

KoolKid wrote: »

I was curious as to what the reference is to them installing fibre throughout Europe.
If their servers are in a data centre they don't need to worry about fibre.

Curious about that myself. Also if they have cancelled the price increase that was a quick climb down.

Drifter50

The whole event is odd and very strange. Gerry Kelly has been in this business for 40 years and would know all the players very well. He was clearly told to do this by his new masters in Abloy Assa to test the market I guess.

I figure they will be back with a "revised" strategy shortly

Drifter50 wrote: »

The whole event is odd and very strange. Gerry Kelly has been in this business for 40 years and would know all the players very well. He was clearly told to do this by his new masters in Abloy Assa to test the market I guess.

I figure they will be back with a "revised" strategy shortly

You can be sure.

Drifter50 wrote: »

The whole event is odd and very strange. Gerry Kelly has been in this business for 40 years and would know all the players very well. He was clearly told to do this by his new masters in Abloy Assa to test the market I guess.

I figure they will be back with a "revised" strategy shortly

So is it clear or are you just guessing ?

KoolKid wrote: »

I was curious as to what the reference is to them installing fibre throughout Europe.
If their servers are in a data centre they don't need to worry about fibre.

Yes, I was quiet surprised by that. I assume some excuse that they thought would sound good to non technical people.

The alternative is worse, that the HKC servers are sitting in the back of the HKC office connected by consumer broadband :eek:

Drifter50 wrote: »

He was clearly told to do this by his new masters in Abloy Assa to test the market I guess.

Except Assa Abloys Yale alarm systems have completely free monitoring, no sub charges or app charges at all. All while adding cool new features every month or two *

* Integration with Philips Hue Smart Lights, Apple Watch support, in just the last few months as an example.

I think the notification was aimed at end users who might not see through the speel. However in many cases the end user is the installer.
It didn't go down too well with installers judging by the response across multiple social media platforms. A 40% increase was too much for most to take. Hence the huge U-Turn by HKC.
Only a matter of time though before they get it back in some other form I,d guess.

bk wrote: »

Yes, I was quiet surprised by that. I assume some excuse that they thought would sound good to non technical people.

The alternative is worse, that the HKC servers are sitting in the back of the HKC office connected by consumer broadband :eek:

Is that a fact or a guess?
Just if it is a fact I am sure the vast majority of Installers in this country would like to know about it.

kub wrote: »

Is that a fact or a guess?
Just if it is a fact I am sure the vast majority of Installers in this country would like to know about it.

Oh, definitely not a fact, not at all. I've no inside knowledge.

It is just a guess based on the terrible wording of that email and based on my IT knowledge and years of experience around data centers.

The email said: "including connecting fibre cable throughout Europe"

A small 40 person company certainly isn't connecting fibre cable throughout Europe. Hell even the likes of Google and Facebook don't do that, they all just buy access on existing fibre from big international ISP's.

The mention of fibre is just weird. The correct way to run a service like this is to place your servers a couple of third party (for redundancy) data centers who specialise in this area. Or more likely just use the data centers own hosted servers (cloud services). The data centers would of course be connected by fibre and yes they would upgrade that as demand increases, but it wouldn't really be something they would discuss with small users of the data center, it would be transparently covered under the service level agreements.

The only reason I could think of them mentioning connecting fibre, is if they are running their servers out of the back of their own office and it is currently connected over consumer VDSL/HFC and they are now getting a fibre connection.
I suppose another possibility is that they already have a fibre connection, but no redundancy and so are adding a second, independent fibre connection.

If I was an installer, I'd certainly be asking questions, I'd be asking for a full overview of their infrastructure:

- Where are their servers hosted?
- Are they hosted in redundant locations?
- What level of service level agreements do they have with their suppliers?

Obviously I wouldn't expect them to go into too much detail, but at least find out if they are use professional data centers or not and redundancy, etc.

Drifter50

and on it goes again

Top Security have launched their new APP service

Also they must be planning to tie in with their monitoring centre

I`ll look forward to having a look at this one, going to get to see it Thursday

Is that the same as CLSs just giving a key switch type arm /disarm?