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Racist Welsh coal miners in blackface

Irish Guitarist

Someone in Phoenix was so insulted by a 100 year old photo of Welsh coal miners in 'blackface' on the wall of a restaurant that he wrote a newspaper article about it.

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2019/01/28/downtown-phoenix-photo-men-soot-blackface/2683881002/

"Viewers cannot determine the intention of an artist’s work. Art also exposes society’s blind spots. Blackface is only a glimpse of a larger issue. The larger issue is the lack of representation of marginalized people and their voices in Phoenix."

This isn't art that someone painted; it's an actual photo of coal miners covered in soot.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/everything-is-racist-coal-miner-edition

I'm old enough to remember my family not having central heating so my father used to order coal. I didn't realise until now how racist it was of the coalman to be covered in coal.

Before anyone complains about me talking about American politics or something, I don't really give a shite about this story. I just think it's so ridiculous that it's funny and worth sharing.

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Potential-Monke

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

I believe that sharing stories like this half the problem. You should never draw attention to something that annoys you. This what a lot of them are designed to do.

You hit the nail on the head here. I would much prefer if people gave a link to the article but gave a synopsis of it in the thread, that way I won't have to click in to read it and increase the traffic to these bellends.

It's hard to do though in a modern age, as only fools should believe everything they read without checking, and how can you check without giving the article a click... Screenshots! We need more screenshots!

El_Duderino 09

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's hard to do though in a modern age, as only fools should believe everything they read without checking, and how can you check without giving the article a click... Screenshots! We need more screenshots!

Hard to trust someone giving a synopsis. Lots of people don't read the link anyway but I take your point.

I'm glad I read it. I dont agree with the author but I think I can see their point of view. The discussion is worth having.

knucklehead6

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Hard to trust someone giving a synopsis. Lots of people don't read the link anyway but I take your point.

I'm glad I read it. I dont agree with the author but I think I can see their point of view. The discussion is worth having.

What discussion?

Is the pic racist. No
Is the displaying of the pic in modern society racist. No
Is the author trying to take offence where none was offered. Yes.

El_Duderino 09

knucklehead6 wrote: »

What discussion?

Is the pic racist. No
Is the displaying of the pic in modern society racist. No
Is the author trying to take offence where none was offered. Yes.

I wish the world was that black and white, so to speak

Sonics2k

So, let's gather some details here.

A complete lunatic with an obvious agenda made an 'article' on some nothing website claiming the weakest possible case of blackface.

Some other journalist for a larger paper obviously saw the chance to make some cash out of it by writing up another article calling him out as an idiot.

Now people are coming along are calling out the original writer as an idiot (hint, he is) and overly sensitive (hint, he is).

There's been no real or actual calls to complain about the picture.

Dial Hard

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I wish the world was that black and white, so to speak

Only in this case it is. It really, really is.

dok_golf

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Someone in Phoenix was so insulted by a 100 year old photo of Welsh coal miners in 'blackface' on the wall of a restaurant that he wrote a newspaper article about it.

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2019/01/28/downtown-phoenix-photo-men-soot-blackface/2683881002/

"Viewers cannot determine the intention of an artist’s work. Art also exposes society’s blind spots. Blackface is only a glimpse of a larger issue. The larger issue is the lack of representation of marginalized people and their voices in Phoenix."

This isn't art that someone painted; it's an actual photo of coal miners covered in soot.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/everything-is-racist-coal-miner-edition

I'm old enough to remember my family not having central heating so my father used to order coal. I didn't realise until now how racist it was of the coalman to be covered in coal.

Before anyone complains about me talking about American politics or something, I don't really give a shite about this story. I just think it's so ridiculous that it's funny and worth sharing.

A world where the PC brigade have become every bit as rabid as the far right they oppose. Total and utter bull****.

Effects

conorhal wrote: »

I don't see anybody on the right having a meldown over a hundred year old photo of coal miners. :rolleyes:

Wasn't Maggie Thatcher right wing, and didn't she tried to shut the coal mines altogether?

Ipso

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Hard to trust someone giving a synopsis. Lots of people don't read the link anyway but I take your point.

I'm glad I read it. I dont agree with the author but I think I can see their point of view. The discussion is worth having.

There's nothing to discuss, someone is projecting prejudice into where t doesn't exist. And by doing this it has an adverse effect on people trying to deal with genuine prejudice.
By having a discussion on this, you then make them feel they have a legitimate cause and the whole thing will descend into a competition on who can find the most offensive thing.

topper75

Snow Crash wrote: »

I can't get offended by blackface because of my childhood...

Can't see the harm in those bars. They were nice.
I had a golliwog doll too as a kid.

My immediate folks never said anything bad about dark-skinned people.

One uncle alright had a chip on his shoulder about the 'darkies' from his time in England. Another uncle took the opposite view and married an African lady. She was lovely to me. I met her community when I went over the pond myself and they were just the same as us. Some sound. Some cnuts. You take people as you find them. Looking for offence where there is none is downright daft.

Franz Von Peppercorn

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I would believe the article writer might face all the discrimination they outline in the article. I get that blackface can represent a racist sentiment. But I would also say this photo isn't racist.

I think it would be a great idea to put a more explaining who the miners are - "miners covered in sut after a day's work in 19xx". Miners worked hard in dangerous coal pits to keep power the country.

They deserve to be honoured, not forgotten. The context has changed so it could cause insult to someone who doesn't know the context. so it makes sense to explain the picture

Naw. Nobody needs to explain why miners are sooty after a day’s mining.

conorhal

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah having a black face was a consequence of working down the mines. And it looks a lot like people doing black face which was deliberately racist.

How are you to know they were Welsh miners if there was no sign?

History is Important because it teaches about how things were. You can't expect people to know about how miners looked in olden times. History is taught which meabs it's normal to explain the context.

Micky-zipper analogy is a bit stupid tbh.

The author thinks the main context for having a blackened face is racism. This picture is not about racism so it makes sense to explain it.

I get that some people enjoy the harshness of simply putting a potentially racist picture up and waiting for someone to get offended and then climb their high horse to tell the offended person how stupid they are for being offended.

It depends on what you think is more important, honouring the miners or being Edgy for the sake of it.

The context needs no explanation, it's self explanatory to ANYBODY WITH EVEN HALF A BRAIN. Your obtuse argument is utterly senseless. Calling stupidity stupid is fine, and the only person on a high horse here is the gimp writing the article.

Here, does this pictures require an explanation?

LOOK!!! RACISTS!!! RACISTS EVERYWHERE!!!!!

woman-or-girl-covered-in-mud-drinking-beer-following-heavy-rain-at-ANNTDF.jpg

woman-or-girl-covered-in-mud-drinking-beer-following-heavy-rain-at-ANNTDF.jpg

This is the look i'm giving your post right now....

Cop on FFS before people come to the conclusion that you're even dimmer then the article author.

El_Duderino 09

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Naw. Nobody needs to explain why miners are sooty after a day’s mining.

Depends. Mining is much cleaner now than back then. Bloody health and safety saving miners lives. So modern miners don't look like that.

So you need to know the context of mining back then. You're happy to assume everyone should have the knowledge you have. I think it's worth explaining the context.

Ipso

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Depends. Mining is much cleaner now than back then. Bloody health and safety saving miners lives. So modern miners don't look like that.

So you need to know the context of mining back then. You're happy to assume everyone should have the knowledge you have. I think it's worth explaining the context.

There is also the fact that coal dust is black and bad for your health, why couldn't it be white and bad for your health?

normanoffside

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever read from a publucation.

People coming up with that kind of rubbish can't have much to be worried about.

givyjoe

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Depends. Mining is much cleaner now than back then. Bloody health and safety saving miners lives. So modern miners don't look like that.

So you need to know the context of mining back then. You're happy to assume everyone should have the knowledge you have. I think it's worth explaining the context.

Ha, what the actual fcuk.. health and safety means miners don't get sooty when mining coal?! Please do elaborate on how health and safety has solved the problem of dirty coal.

It's only 'worth' explaining the context to utter morons who have access to internet and for some reason, a place to publish their brain dead articles.

looksee

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I would believe the article writer might face all the discrimination they outline in the article. I get that blackface can represent a racist sentiment. But I would also say this photo isn't racist.

I think it would be a great idea to put a more explaining who the miners are - "miners covered in sut after a day's work in 19xx". Miners worked hard in dangerous coal pits to keep power the country.

They deserve to be honoured, not forgotten. The context has changed so it could cause insult to someone who doesn't know the context. so it makes sense to explain the picture

The author said in the article that they were welsh miners so there must have been some sort of indication what the picture was about. The whole story is the more convoluted because he knew what it was but still managed to twist it into racism.

Spannerplank

DS86DS wrote: »

The irrationality and stupidity of leftists never ceases to amaze me.

I would concur. They are a sad bunch.
The rightists with their outrage at Janet Jackson's revolting "wardrobe malfunction" , the movement to ban women's thongs that ride above the jeans in some God fearing red states and the outrage of Madonna kissing the depiction of a black saint in a music video ought to show these leftists what is really important to be offended by.

TomSweeney

NSAman wrote: »

America is screwed. There are so many people here, outraged about everything, that they don’t know what real outrage should be.

This should have way more thanks, read it and think about it - so true and spot on.

TomSweeney

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd think he'd look at the photo and realise that most white people had it bad as well. What sort of white privilege did those men feel working down dangerous mines?

As usual though, it warms my heart to know people like this guy are ruining their own lives voluntarily. He obviously doesn't have any of the real issues I or my girlfriend have. Let his victimhood spiral out of control and end up more troubled than we are. He deserves it.

Exactly, it really is a shame, the left are killing themselves and it is a shame for real classical sane leftists that morons like this will only make things worse and help get that orange clown re elected.

TomSweeney

DrumSteve wrote: »

Thinly veiled "I have a girlfriend" post.

Not so thinly veiled - "I'm single and sexually frustrated" post ...

Sorry ..

TomSweeney

conorhal wrote: »

The context needs no explanation, it's self explanatory to ANYBODY WITH EVEN HALF A BRAIN. Your obtuse argument is utterly senseless. Calling stupidity stupid is fine, and the only person on a high horse here is the gimp writing the article.

Here, does this pictures require an explanation?

LOOK!!! RACISTS!!! RACISTS EVERYWHERE!!!!!

This is the look i'm giving your post right now....

Cop on FFS before people come to the conclusion that you're even dimmer then the article author.

I DEMAND PREDATOR BE BANNED!!!!!

[Deleted User]

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Depends. Mining is much cleaner now than back then. Bloody health and safety saving miners lives. So modern miners don't look like that.

So you need to know the context of mining back then. You're happy to assume everyone should have the knowledge you have. I think it's worth explaining the context.

Even the fact they're Welsh is enough context. Wales didn't have black slaves, nor did Ireland. Blackface isn't a thing, nor is any sort of white privilege.

They're the poorest of the poor having a beer. If some wanker 3000 miles away 100 years later has an issue with their photo, that's their problem. He even did the research and still decided to be a self-centred piece of shlt. Labeling the photo wouldn't have stopped his desire to be a victim.

This imported history of oppression is frankly pathetic considering we ourselves were treated so badly in our own country and in America.

NIMAN

Deleted User wrote: »

Even the fact they're Welsh is enough context. Wales didn't have black slaves, nor did Ireland. Blackface isn't a thing, nor is any sort of white privilege.

They're the poorest of the poor having a beer. If some wanker 3000 miles away 100 years later has an issue with their photo, that's their problem. He even did the research and still decided to be a self-centred piece of shlt. Labeling the photo wouldn't have stopped his desire to be a victim.

This imported history of oppression is frankly pathetic considering we ourselves were treated so badly in our own country and in America.

This line made me realise that this sh1t has to stop, and stop soon. We need to take a stand for the sake of everyone.

Otherwise, we will have songs banned, art removed from galleries, films never shown again etc etc.....it'll never end.

[Deleted User]

NIMAN wrote: »

This line made me realise that this sh1t has to stop, and stop soon. We need to take a stand for the sake of everyone.

Otherwise, we will have songs banned, art removed from galleries, films never shown again etc etc.....it'll never end.

Give an inch and culture starts to disappear. History and its defining people are often ugly, but it needs to be remembered.

Just recently, Germany decided that that church bell with a swastika was allowed to remain. While some will be offended, it's the right thing to do. They are artifacts of the past. Our sensibilities now cannot allow the whitewashing of what our ancestors did.

Censoring historical truths does nothing but satisfy a select few who are likely enraged by something else a few days later.

Pac1Man

El_Duderino 09

Ipso wrote: »

There is also the fact that coal dust is black and bad for your health, why couldn't it be white and bad for your health?

Is the issue that you don't get to be offended in a similar way?

I'm any case the fact remains that miners don't look like that now. I think it's a good idea to put a note explaining the context. Some people would prefer to get on their high horse at anyone who doesn't know what miners looked like in olden times.

[Deleted User]

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Is the issue that you don't get to be offended in a similar way?

I'm any case the fact remains that miners don't look like that now. I think it's a good idea to put a note explaining the context. Some people would prefer to get on their high horse at anyone who doesn't know what miners looked like in olden times.

Personally, I don't give a shlt about the opinion of anyone who doesn't know coal miners used to be covered in coal. Why should notes be posted in case imbeciles with columns get offended?

No idea why you want to associate yourself with the lowest people in society. The author is pure and utter scum. A useless mass of moving parts that should have landed on his mother's shoulder.

El_Duderino 09

givyjoe wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Depends. Mining is much cleaner now than back then. Bloody health and safety saving miners lives. So modern miners don't look like that.

So you need to know the context of mining back then. You're happy to assume everyone should have the knowledge you have. I think it's worth explaining the context.

Ha, what the actual fcuk.. health and safety means miners don't get sooty when mining coal?! Please do elaborate on how health and safety has solved the problem of dirty coal.

It's only 'worth' explaining the context to utter morons who have access to internet and for some reason, a place to publish their brain dead articles.

Oh no problem I'll explain the actual fcuk as you requested. See, coal mining is dirty business and under normal circumstances miners would end up covered in coal dust. But it turns out Inhaling coal dust is also harmful to miners health. So bloody health and safety dictated that they need to take precautions to minimise dust in the air in mines. So now miners don't get as dirty as they did in olden times. Hence miners in 2019 don't look like the men in the picture.

It's ironic that you didn't know that and went on to call people who don't know the context "utter morons". I won't call you an utter moron because I'm happy to explain the context which is what I think should happen.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally, I don't give a shlt about the opinion of anyone who doesn't know coal miners used to be covered in coal. Why should notes be posted in case imbeciles with columns get offended?

No idea why you want to associate yourself with the lowest people in society. The author is pure and utter scum. A useless mass of moving parts that should have landed on his mother's shoulder.

Peoplwjo don't know things are the lowest in society? Pure and utter scum? Crikey. Givjoe didn't know the facts do is he also the lowest in society? I don't agree even though he called people like himself "utter morons"

I'm happy to be pro-education.