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Is London now a scary place?

Wheres Me Jumper?

like most Irish people, I visited the English many, many times, and have worked/lived there for quite a few years.

since returning home, i visited London for the first time in over 10 years . i was shocked at how violent the place had become. on 1 day travelling into the centre, i witnessed half a dozen violent incidents. i'm not talking about a few harsh words being exchanged, this was full on assaults.

in one incident a beggar was kicked in the head, and had a pint of beer poured over him by a group of young lads.

am i over-reacting or has London become a really violent place?

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Penfailed

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Police are more interested in investigating people for making jokes on the internet than hunting down moped gangs and the like.

Get your head out of the [Daily Mail]*

*insert right wing press/website here

FTA69

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i lived on the same street as Denis Nilsen in Cranley Gdns. in Highgate. it often occurs to me that i probably shared a tube carraige with him. :eek:

Go way! I used to drink in the Priory Inn there on Priory Road at the bottom of Muswell Hill.

cmac2009

wakka12 wrote: »

That so didnt happen. Not a just chance people in almost anywhere in the world would walk on past a woman being beaten bloody by a man

I think OP is a bit of a fantasist

4068ac1elhodqr

To be fair, the Tories have cut back beat bobbies by 10's of thousands,
guess that could explain the low conviction rate (for crimes against the person) of just 8.2%.
Likely also, many don't even bother reporting having their phone/moped/bag swipped off them.

Either a 2nd Ref (with protests) or hard brexit (with food shortages),
will make for a busy day for wan achor: K' Burley at SkyNews

Wheres Me Jumper?

FTA69 wrote: »

Go way! I used to drink in the Priory Inn there on Priory Road at the bottom of Muswell Hill.

wasn't that close to Ally Pally?

RDM_83 again

FTA69 wrote: »

I find I see more scraps and general guff in Ireland than London but all of that is subjective. There have been four murders on the road that I live on, but I’ve never once felt unsafe here. That having been said, I wouldn’t like to be a 17 year old black kid living around here as things are mad on that front. The stories I hear in my boxing club are saddening and terrifying in equal measure.

Compared to the early-2000s violence crime is down, but it has been rising steadily. There are social and economic reasons behind this that are complex. Firstly the cops have been slashed to the bone by the government, they are a shadow of their former selves. There’s something ridiculous like 30% less police on our streets now. Secondly, youth and community programs have also been scrapped and funding cut, thus leading to young people getting up to no good. Lastly, housing is tiny and unaffordable, entire families are in one bed flats, so teenage kids are pushed out onto the streets. Parents are often working 70+ hours a week in jobs that don’t pay enough so kids are left to their own devices.

It’s not all that simple, but the above factors are big ones in my view.

Hmmm

As far as I know the cuts in police numbers don't make much sense as an explanation as the numbers declined between 2010 and 2015 yet the uptick of violent crime is mainly after this point, so it doesn't give an answer apart from easy Tory bashing.
Looking at prison numbers there is another possible factor in terms of demographics, you actually live in London yes?you allude to the primary victims but they are also the primary perpetrators.
Removing stop and search and effectively ending Operation Trident match much better with the rise in violent crime there compared to raw police numbers too.

These might not be the answers at all but I just can't buy the police cuts thing as it doesn't make sense at all to me looking at the actual time frame and numbers. Same for the general economics less unemployment than 2008-2014 but more crime?

Agree in my experience though London feels safer as a non teenage non black person than Dublin

Billy86

Tomas Delightful Squaw wrote: »

Interesting stat, is that Wales now has more people (per thousand of population) locked up than anywhere else in Europe.

Not enough 10mn+ cities to pull in those big, sexy bulk numbers on the stat sheets though, eh!

Its the same as the story about there being more murders than in NY last year - both are considerably safer places than a hell of a lot of Europe, Dublin very much included (and Dublin is not even so bad itself).

fryup

"I first felt a fist, and then a kick
I could now smell their breath
They smelt of pubs and wormwood scrubs
And too many right wing meetings"

its always been rough mate

Miccoli

Absolute myth that London has gotten more violent. Its Propaganda pushed by the likes of the daily mail. The murder rate has fallen significantly from its peak of over 200 per year in the early 2000s to 132 in 2018 which is actually quite low for a city of its size.

cameramonkey

In London when I lived there 7 years ago I saw on a number of occasions mobile metal detectors being deployed by police outside tube station looking for people carrying knives. Also saw one at the entrance to Hyde Park once.

[Deleted User]

When I left school in the late 80s there was a big jump in knife crime. You get a few stabbings and suddenly people feel the need to take a knife out with them. So instead of two guys having a drunken brawl, you end up with two guys in hospital ( or worse) from stab wounds.

That was when the mobile metal detectors got rolled out and the police had a big knife amnesty. Parents also started searching their kids bedrooms and handing knives in to the police.

Hopefully this is a cyclical thing and the numbers drop again, because it does seem to be getting out of control.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Aegir wrote: »

When I left school in the late 80s there was a big jump in knife crime. You get a few stabbings and suddenly people feel the need to take a knife out with them. So instead of two guys having a drunken brawl, you end up with two guys in hospital ( or worse) from stab wounds.

That was when the mobile metal detectors got rolled out and the police had a big knife amnesty. Parents also started searching their kids bedrooms and handing knives in to the police.

Hopefully this is a cyclical thing and the numbers drop again, because it does seem to be getting out of control.

it's nigh impossible to single out any one cause, as there isn't just one, but a number of factors. These factors (no pun intended) bleed into one another.

my list would include,
austerity, police cutbacks, gross income inequality, racism/intolerance, Brexit, overcrowding, immigration, drugs, alcohol, the internet, lack/absence of parenting.

how you start to disentangle that lot is anyone's guess, but investing some money in those kid's futures might be a start.

FTA69

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

wasn't that close to Ally Pally?

Yep just below it, about two minutes walk from the bottom of Cranley Gardens, although I think Nilsen used to live in the top of it nearer Highgate. Former cop he was.

FTA69

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Hmmm

As far as I know the cuts in police numbers don't make much sense as an explanation as the numbers declined between 2010 and 2015 yet the uptick of violent crime is mainly after this point, so it doesn't give an answer apart from easy Tory bashing.
Looking at prison numbers there is another possible factor in terms of demographics, you actually live in London yes?you allude to the primary victims but they are also the primary perpetrators.
Removing stop and search and effectively ending Operation Trident match much better with the rise in violent crime there compared to raw police numbers too.

These might not be the answers at all but I just can't buy the police cuts thing as it doesn't make sense at all to me looking at the actual time frame and numbers. Same for the general economics less unemployment than 2008-2014 but more crime?

Agree in my experience though London feels safer as a non teenage non black person than Dublin

Wages have stagnated and rents have spiralled mate. The idea of “less unemployment” meaning a working economy is Tory bollocks. There is a huge amount of part-time employment in bullsh*t jobs that pay nothing and offer precarious circumstances.

One point I alluded to was not unemployment, but parents forced to work inordinate amounts of hours in order to make ends meet, 70 a piece in varying day and night shifts isn’t uncommon, couple that with overcrowding and the old adequate supervised parenting is impossible to do. I work with outsourced security guards on £9 an hour, all Africans, and they’re all terrified what will happen to their sons growing up.

Crime is a societal issue mostly linked to economics, it isnt cos being black gives you a predisposition to knifing people.

Harry Palmr

I remember when it was safe enough to leave your door unlocked so the Krays or the Richardson Gang could just walk in without creating a mess.

_Kaiser_

This is unfortunately what happens, when:

- You prioritise economic performance over social inclusion and leave lots of people out/behind
- You let anyone and everyone in and expect them all to just get along with no thoughts as to how that'll happen
- You spend more time worrying about offending someone over something, than dealing with the problems

Dublin will end up the same way the way things are going.

CrankyHaus

IME other UK towns and cities are worse. On a saturday night you have a good chance of seeing aggro.
While I like Glasgow it has a definite do-not-take-the-piss vibe to it that I never found in London. Similarly in Newcastle I saw two massive groups of lads decking each other and around the corner 2 coppers standing there casually in no mood to walk around. In general I'd view London as more peaceful than Dublin.

markodaly

FTA69 wrote: »

Crime is a societal issue mostly linked to economics, it isnt cos being black gives you a predisposition to knifing people.

This is true enough I suppose but what is the family situation for these mainly young male back teens?

Its a similar situation in the US, which in my opinion is THE most important issue facing this particular community, yet many fear going there. Black father seem to be much more absent than others.

orourkeda1977

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

like most Irish people, I visited the English many, many times, and have worked/lived there for quite a few years.

since returning home, i visited London for the first time in over 10 years . i was shocked at how violent the place had become. on 1 day travelling into the centre, i witnessed half a dozen violent incidents. i'm not talking about a few harsh words being exchanged, this was full on assaults.

in one incident a beggar was kicked in the head, and had a pint of beer poured over him by a group of young lads.

am i over-reacting or has London become a really violent place?

How on earth did you manage to witness 6 violent incidents in one day. I've travelled around london for weeks on end and have very rarely seen one violent incident. This includes football matches.

I've never felt unsafe in London. I've never felt that you are more likely to see violence here than in any other major city.

Having said that, you'd be a fool to drop your guard in any city

Wheres Me Jumper?

FTA69 wrote: »

Yep just below it, about two minutes walk from the bottom of Cranley Gardens, although I think Nilsen used to live in the top of it nearer Highgate. Former cop he was.

no i think he was an ex army cook. skills he later put to 'er not so "good" use.
Cranley Gdns always struck me as a lonely dreary spot, but Highgate itself was lovely. Like Muswell Hill it has some lovely pubs. Gr8 place to live.

ancapailldorcha

Been here a while now. Can't say that I've ever felt unsafe but I'm not the type to stumble around pissed either. It's like any other city but it does feel quite packed together which can feel a bit claustrophobic.

Overall it's a great city.

Wheres Me Jumper?

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

How on earth did you manage to witness 6 violent incidents in one day. I've travelled around london for weeks on end and have very rarely seen one violent incident. This includes football matches.

I've never felt unsafe in London. I've never felt that you are more likely to see violence here than in any other major city.

Having said that, you'd be a fool to drop your guard in any city

i didn't feel unsafe.

on the way home the carraige we were in was "invaded" by about 8 young kids. i couldn't quite figure their nationality but if i had to guess i'ld say Albanian, possibly Romanian.

they were only 10-14 y/old but were totally feral. they clearly didn't give a sh1. one mature ladywho was seated kinda looked over her glasses at them as they were being very disruptive. they immediately crowded around her. the eldest lad opened his jacket to reveal something. i didn't see what. she turned ashen, and got off at the next stop. as she left they started jeering and spitting at her.

Richard Hillman

A lot of issues. Diversity, "Community Leaders" brainwashing kids into thinking everyone is against them, stop and search being hauled back "coz it's racist", rap culture. The place is f**ked

Stab*City

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

like most Irish people, I visited the English many, many times, and have worked/lived there for quite a few years.

since returning home, i visited London for the first time in over 10 years . i was shocked at how violent the place had become. on 1 day travelling into the centre, i witnessed half a dozen violent incidents. i'm not talking about a few harsh words being exchanged, this was full on assaults.

in one incident a beggar was kicked in the head, and had a pint of beer poured over him by a group of young lads.

am i over-reacting or has London become a really violent place?

Depends if you scare easily or not. I used to live in London myself for a while North Peckham Estate.

orourkeda1977

Richard Hillman wrote: »

A lot of issues. Diversity, "Community Leaders" brainwashing kids into thinking everyone is against them, stop and search being hauled back "coz it's racist's, rap culture. The place is f**ked

That isnt unique to London by any means

Magic ]=)

It's a huge city so you have to expect there's some crime. Been there 4 times, before wife and later with family. Stayed out late never came across anything suspicious.
However... Few years ago I worked with an ex police officer from London and he relocated his family to Ireland because as he said it's a lot safer here than there.

BrokenArrows

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

like most Irish people, I visited the English many, many times, and have worked/lived there for quite a few years.

since returning home, i visited London for the first time in over 10 years . i was shocked at how violent the place had become. on 1 day travelling into the centre, i witnessed half a dozen violent incidents. i'm not talking about a few harsh words being exchanged, this was full on assaults.

in one incident a beggar was kicked in the head, and had a pint of beer poured over him by a group of young lads.

am i over-reacting or has London become a really violent place?

I live in london for about 9 years.
I havent noticed any change over that period.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I remember when it was safe enough to leave your door unlocked so the Krays or the Richardson Gang could just walk in without creating a mess.

Their neighbourhoods were the most secure places to live in London back in the 60s, there was a reason why they were loved , they didn't fck with their own and no petty thief would dare try and rob on their turf.

Ride her like horse

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

like most Irish people, I visited the English many, many times, and have worked/lived there for quite a few years.

since returning home, i visited London for the first time in over 10 years . i was shocked at how violent the place had become. on 1 day travelling into the centre, i witnessed half a dozen violent incidents. i'm not talking about a few harsh words being exchanged, this was full on assaults.

in one incident a beggar was kicked in the head, and had a pint of beer poured over him by a group of young lads.

am i over-reacting or has London become a really violent place?

London and most other cities in GB have always been ****holes like that

BrokenArrows

Ride her like horse wrote: »

London and most other cities in GB have always been ****holes like that

Any major city of a reasonable size has plenty of problems.
Uk is no different.

Even Dublin which is barely large enough to be classified as a city on world standards has far more problems then London has.