Hurrache wrote: » But re-read that. It makes no sense. The whole of the UK voted leave partly because of two individuals in the EU? If that's one of the reasons Leave won the UK has much much bigger problems than Brexit coming their way.
eagle eye wrote: The UK are not going to run back to Europe quickly. They will look at making deals outside if the EU. They'll offer deals to other countries to try and place themselves in a more powerful position fir renegotiation. There is a trade war coming if there is a hard Brexit and you'll be foolish to underestimate the UK.
eagle eye wrote: » That is basically what we have been for years,why change now if it's going to cost the lives of innocent people?
Midlife wrote: » My basic stance on Brexit is this: It could have been done well, it might even have made economic sense long term. Noway, Switzerland etc all do fine. However, the approach by the UK has been a disaster. You have four quarters who won't agree on the same thing so they can't tell anyone what they want. At this stage, the EU is correct. They negotiated a deal with a UK team. That deal was rejected by the UK. What kind of clowning is that? What are they expected to do but negotiate with the negotiators? Britian have ****ed this up massivly by not being United. Shame on their politicians. They will have literally killed British people through their ineptitude. But the thing that makes me furious at the back of it all is the hipocrasy of the rationale by some for Brexit. The same Tories who shut down local businesses, closed local industries and broke up local communities with Tatchernomics and then brought speculators and property developers to buy up the centre of British towns and cities are now blaming Europe and foreigners for Britian not being the way it was and the squeezing of the middle class. Meanwhile Rees Mogg and his ilk are transferring their assets abroad and shorting British companies. A significant ammount of money will be gained by some if Britian crashes out this year. But anyone below the poverty line is in big trouble. World class scumbags. Now you can debate different aspects of Brixit, of backstops and GFA and WA but what's above is all reality. Britian is ****ed because their elected representatives let them down.
Folkstonian wrote: » I’m becoming sick of this whole process. Sick of the EU pretending it has offered Britain a fair deal at any stage. You can’t put three lumps of **** in front of someone and condemn them for not choosing any of them. EEA - garbage, absolutely no say over the rules Britain would have to adhere to. Back down and remain - garbage, really scares me because it will cause so many people to disengage from politics for many, many years. I don’t foresee violence, just people justifiably asking what the point of participation in democracy is. Sick of the EU acting like it has to shoulder literally none of the responsibility for the vote to leave. May’s deal - garbage. basically letting Europe annex part of the UK. Obviously, obviously, this was going to cause loads of sodding grief. What a horrible time to live in. I feel so sorry for people on an individual level who are affected by this maelstrom of distrust and antsgonism. It was one of the key reasons why I was a remainer initially. But now, I have just had enough with it all. I don’t want anyone here to think I have any bad feeling towards Ireland or it’s people. I love this place and have had such a blast living and working here. I don’t excuse or try to justify the idiocy and ineptitude of May and her negotiating team. But my god, the likes of Juncker and Verhofstadt have shown themselves up to be insufferable twats. Europe can see fit to compromise when they want to. Look at the Swiss deal, look at Norway. Huge compromises. For Britain, because they have got the arse at the shock decision to leave, it’s just the take it or leave it off the shelf aforementioned lumps of ****. I really understand this will go down like a lead balloon here, but it’s not a post like many other ‘leavers’ (I guess that’s what I am now) intended to take the conversation down into the gutter.
Folkstonian wrote: » Yes, I think so. I think they are abrasive and hugely dislikesble (and disliked, in reality) Leaving aside whether you think that’s right or not, do you disagree that dislike for the individuals at the top of the pyramid in Europe didn’t play any part in the outcome?
Folkstonian wrote: » One could also argue that Scotland entered a union with England of its own accord, which has been overwhelmingly successful. One could also argue that Scotland played an incredibly influential role in the expansion and maintenance of empire. Further, one could argue that the heyday of empire was not the 1700s, but the decades between the world wars when it was at its largest territorially and economically. One can argue all these things if they study history and don’t fabricate a counternarrative. I’m becoming sick of this whole process. Sick of the EU pretending it has offered Britain a fair deal at any stage. You can’t put three lumps of **** in front of someone and condemn them for not choosing any of them. EEA - garbage, absolutely no say over the rules Britain would have to adhere to. Back down and remain - garbage, really scares me because it will cause so many people to disengage from politics for many, many years. I don’t foresee violence, just people justifiably asking what the point of participation in democracy is. Sick of the EU acting like it has to shoulder literally none of the responsibility for the vote to leave. May’s deal - garbage. basically letting Europe annex part of the UK. Obviously, obviously, this was going to cause loads of sodding grief. What a horrible time to live in. I feel so sorry for people on an individual level who are affected by this maelstrom of distrust and antsgonism. It was one of the key reasons why I was a remainer initially. But now, I have just had enough with it all. I don’t want anyone here to think I have any bad feeling towards Ireland or it’s people. I love this place and have had such a blast living and working here. I don’t excuse or try to justify the idiocy and ineptitude of May and her negotiating team. But my god, the likes of Juncker and Verhofstadt have shown themselves up to be insufferable twats. Europe can see fit to compromise when they want to. Look at the Swiss deal, look at Norway. Huge compromises. For Britain, because they have got the arse at the shock decision to leave, it’s just the take it or leave it off the shelf aforementioned lumps of ****. I really understand this will go down like a lead balloon here, but it’s not a post like many other ‘leavers’ (I guess that’s what I am now) intended to take the conversation down into the gutter.
eagle eye wrote: » You are insane if you think that will ever happen. You do realise that you are talking about civil war up there if there is an attempt made to leave the UK. You do realise that one side up there call themselves Unionists?
prawnsambo wrote: » It takes years to complete a trade deal. NAFTA took six. The best that the UK can hope for is a quick deal with Canada and that's estimated to take at least two. Meanwhile, UK agri-food industry dies on its feet as it loses its only export market and faces punitive tariffs everywhere under WTO rules. Most models have predicted it will be gone inside two years. With no subsidies to protect it.
eagle eye wrote: » The UK are not going to run back to Europe quickly. They will look at making deals outside if the EU. They'll offer deals to other countries to try and place themselves in a more powerful position fir renegotiation. There is a trade war coming if there is a hard Brexit and you'll be foolish to underestimate the UK.
micosoft wrote: » What type of deals? Bad deals for the UK? What countries? Given the UK will be one of the only countries in the world with no trade deals how will they be in a powerful position? The only fools are those overestimating the UK's importance. Literally everybody else - Canada, Japan have been clear that Brexit is all bad.China and the US are licking their lips at the one sided trade deals they will force on the UK.
micosoft wrote: » What type of deals? Bad deals for the UK? What countries? Given the UK will be one of the only countries in the world with no trade deals how will they be in a powerful position? The only fools are those overestimating the UK's importance. Literally everybody else - Canada, Japan have been clear that Brexit is all bad. China and the US are licking their lips at the one sided trade deals they will force on the UK.
Midlife wrote: We're now the only English speaking country in Europe. That's going to come in handy...until Scotland joins that is.
Folkstonian wrote: » Sorry, you misunderstand. I don’t blame those two characters for the negotiations. I think they are awful and unbearable and are one of many reasons as to why leave won the referendum. No obligation on the EU to offer Britain a good deal? Absolutely. But no reason to think that offering a selection of terrible deals will lead to anything but chaos and probably a no deal exit, either.
eagle eye wrote: » The UK are not going to run back to Europe quickly. They will look at making deals outside if the EU. They'll offer deals to other countries to try and place themselves in a more powerful position fir renegotiation. There is a trade war coming if there is a hard Brexit and you'll be foolish to underestimate the UK. All this is based on the UK running cap in hand back to the EU. That's not going to happen imo.
""Today we have the chance to show the European Union what it will take to get a deal through this House of Commons, what it will take to move beyond the confusion and division and uncertainty that now hangs over us," Mrs May told parliament. "I also accept that this House does not want the deal I put before it, in the form that it currently exists. The vote was decisive and I listened. So the world knows what this House does not want. Today we need to send an emphatic message about what we do want." British lawmakers will have the opportunity to vote on up to seven proposed changes to Mrs May's Brexit deal on Tuesday, the Speaker of the House of Commons John Bercow said."
Thargor wrote: » Oh my God:https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1090527294039486464
Midlife wrote: » This is very telling from May yesterday She's basically said that now her deal is firmly rejected, the Uk needs to come together and decide what deal they want.THEY DON'T KNOW YET!!! With 60 days to go, they haven't actually figured it out between themselves. So how can people possibly be complaining about the EU in negotiations.
Folkstonian wrote: » I don’t think that is quite right. Raab quit as Brexit sec because he felt he was being sidelined by Theresa May and Olly Robbins And was completely unhappy with the withdrawal agreement, no?
J Mysterio wrote: » Pretty sure it was also a day or two after he realised the importance of EU UK trade routes. That was embarassing.
