Miike wrote: » All of those are without premia, overtime etc. That's a like for like comparison.
Flyingsnowball wrote: » The media tells me they are. Why didn’t they become doctors if they can get two degrees?
Miike wrote: » In your alternate universe do you think that all nurses strive to be doctors? or are just not clever enough to do medicine?
Thephantomsmask wrote: » Starting salary for a basic grade respiratory physiologist (technician has not been a job title for many years) is €33,719 since 2013, your graphic is incorrect.
DS86DS wrote: » Nurses in this country are far to quick to complain. They have a good wage as well as plenty of public sector benefits as well as a cushy retirement plan in line with other public sector professions. If they are not happy with their calling in life, then there are others to fill the roll. And a nurses first priority should be in helping the sick, not holding the country to randsome.
Miike wrote: What field?
Flyingsnowball wrote: » They would be paid better. If I got two degrees in fine art and pottery making you would ask why I didn’t get better degrees if I was complaining about my pay and conditions.
Although the demand for training has increased, 70 per cent of nurses leave Ireland within two years of qualifying, writes Fiona Tyrrell. A degree in nursing is seen as a "passport to travel" by students, according to Irish Nurses' Organisation (INO) general secretary Liam Doran. He says the increased demand for nursing places has been prompted in part by the higher profile afforded to the profession by the new nursing degree courses and inclusion in the CAO system. The demand for the new courses, established in 2002, continues to rise, and the points required (between 360 and 400) are greater than that for an arts degree. More nurses are being trained in Ireland than ever before, with a 90 per cent increase in the number of trainees in the past five years. Last September, 1,740 started their nursing degree, compared with 900 in 1998.
Martina1991 wrote: » Its the understaffing thats the problem. But you kind of need to increase pay to entice people to stay rather than emmigrate.
Miike wrote: » €35,417 Starting. Carry on.
Miike wrote: » Judging the from the support on the pickets today, I'd argue that you're wrong. People from local communities even joined the pickets to show support and solidarity. All that nurses are asking to be paid the same as other healthcare professionals who work less hours and have 20% of the caseload of a nurse. Also other allied healthcare professionals aren't required to do specialist post grads or MSc's to have any opportunity to move up or even laterally with their career. Nurses would have around 7ish years done in University to get the same rate of a pay as a 3 year degree OT graduate. Everyone who's never worked a day on the ward will posit that conditions are fine, pay is fine, there isn't a recruitment or retention problem and that the average pay is 50 odd thousand a year. Ofcourse, that's those who are blindly ignorant to where the average of that pay goes - There are more managers for nurses than nurses on the wards at this stage. Nurses are redeployed daily because of staff shortages in units across the board in Mental Health, General, ID and Midwifery. Graduate retention rates are sub 20% over 24 months post reg in some parts of the country.
Tell me how wrote: » Reading this kind of makes me cringe. A lollipop person keeps school children alive, or a life guard at a swimming pool, what should we pay them? Yes, ICU is keeping me alive, and the nurse is monitoring equipment, but are they diagnosing? Are they selecting treatments? Are they doing the surgery? Are they prescribing critical medications? They are an essential role but they do not have ownership on treatment decisions or diagnosis. I'll repeat a point I made earlier just to clarify, I think nurses on the ward should be on more than they currently are after 5 years of service. But, the average money is 57k/year and this strike is to try to get 12% pay rises for all nurses. If that average is unrepresentative then it indicates a badly skewed structure where we have more nurses in management roles than we should have but the money is still in the pot for nurses and if they get this rise, it will be awarded to all nurses and thus the average will rise to nearly 64k. They have permanent positions, short weeks (but yes long days) and better pension benefits than those in the private sector for what they have to contribute. We cannot afford this, it is ignoring the problems elsewhere in the system, it devalues an agreed pay deal, it will trigger additional claims elsewhere.
Matt Barrett wrote: » Come off it. They chose to be Nurses for various reasons. Expecting a wage they can live off is a separate issue or we'd all be doing the same wonder job we all like for great money, what ever that might be.
Goldengirl wrote: » Again you haven't a clue. Nurses make treatment decisions every day and the more senior they are the more they make. Doctors prescribe medicine and medical treatment, but no consultant worth his salt would interfere with a nurse training a junior doctor in the art of approaching a difficult patient, or if a senior nurse questions whether certain patients would be able for a type of treatment. Nurses send physio and occupational therapy referrals . That nurse in ICU has to ensure you are ok by reading and interpreting more than just what is on a monitor, and when a doctor should be called, even if the vital signs don't flag it. There is more to nursing than following an order or prescription, and you show either ignorance of this or are just disingenuously arguing for argument sake. And for the last time , NURSES DO NOT EARN 57K ON AVERAGE. That is a LIE and I question who you are that you keep ignoring the fact that numerous posters on here have told and shown you that this is BS ! You tell other people to read your posts , try reading what other people post .
Flyingsnowball wrote: » But I’m earning less this year than I did last year because my taxes have gone up. My taxes pay nurses wages.
They are getting a pay rise. They earn more than me and I can garantee you I go home more tired than 90 per cent of them each day.
If all the people in my trade headed off to aus there would be outbreaks of all sorts of diseases.
Tell me how wrote: » In all my statements about the 57K average, no one has provided evidence that it is false beyond saying "Well I don't earn that" or "My GF doesn't earn that". I know individuals don't. I know collectively it is the average.
In Ireland, nurses earn about the average wage which the Central Statistics Office last year put at €39,000.
Twenty Grand wrote: » Well nurses pay taxes too, so technically they pay their own wages. I didn't realise peoples wages were based on how tired they were at the end of the day. Herpes, syphilis and gonorrhea?
Flyingsnowball wrote: » Smart Alec childish slagging answers. It shows the maturity.
Twenty Grand wrote: » I've posted many well thought out arguments, with links backing them up, but this is still After Hours and I can say whatever I want;)
1641 wrote: » Ah - the gender card - so no dissenting opinions now. By the way, what is the male/female ratio in Physio, OT and Speech and Language Therapy ?
Flyingsnowball wrote: » But I’m earning less this year than I did last year because my taxes have gone up. My taxes pay nurses wages. They are getting a pay rise. They earn more than me and I can garantee you I go home more tired than 90 per cent of them each day. If all the people in my trade headed off to aus there would be outbreaks of all sorts of diseases. Nobody cares about us. Bus drivers will be next up. Then gaurds etc etc. Same every year. Don’t worry they can just raise my taxes.
Twenty Grand wrote: » I posted this yesterday in response to you. You conveniently ignored it:https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-nurses-pay-4463814-Jan2019/
From a deparmental review “Data on nursing remuneration (excluding midwives) compiled by the OECD from 2007 to 2016 shows the average pay of a nurse including allowances and premia payments. This is presented in Figure 9 below which situates Ireland in an internationally comparable context.”
In a statement to TheJournal.ie, it added: “While other countries provide data on a different basis, the 2017 figure of US$ PPP 63,464 remains an accurate estimate of what an average nurse earns in Ireland. While international comparisons are difficult, due to differences in how the figures are compiled, the OECD is the best source of data and the actual salary figures reported by the OECD do not suggest that nurses are low paid.”
Tell me how wrote: » I truly didn't see it yesterday. But, two things I will say. A, In is not surprising that the journal is publishing an article countering the governments position. B What do you think of the following?
And it is important to point out that the OECD data on nurses’ remuneration, which is frequently used as an indication of where Irish nurses fall on the scale, is not (by the OECD’s own admission) a reliable source.
billie1b wrote: » Emm hello, you do know nurses also pay taxes on their wages yeah....
Flyingsnowball wrote: » Yeah?people on the dole pay vat so basically we can keep raising dole because they pay it themselves. These degrees, do they have tests at the end of them?
theguzman wrote: » What about the literal billions dumped into the dark hole of adminsistation, crony managers and jobs for life. The HSE could function perfectly fine with at least 50,000 to 75,000 job cuts and just increase front line staff but trim out the fat. This will of course never happen which is why I favour privatisation.
