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P2P Lending

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

A few of you have been in the p2p scene a few years now. Have you any thoughts on your p2p platforms of choice?

Mintos appears to be leading the way at the moment, in terms of volume of loans available and value of loans funded/available. Are Twino and Bondora still getting a look in?

I felt I was too heavily invested in Mintos so I have tried a few newer platforms recently. Lenndy, RoboCash, DoFinance, Grupeer and ViaInvest. Only small money to begin. The only platform where my funds have yet to be invested is Lenndy. I try to stick to platforms that have a buyback type guarantee.

Does anyone else have any recommendations or thoughts on how p2p will evolve this year?

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Cute Hoor

littlevillage wrote: »

Yeah, I can't sell 'Defaulted' or 'Delayed' loans ...also having trouble selling loans that have very small amounts outstanding....a few €'s etc.

I had no problem selling the delayed ones either, only problem was with the 2 'Defaulted' ones.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

That's odd. I was able to sell about 20+ delayed loans.

littlevillage wrote: »

Yeah, I can't sell 'Defaulted' or 'Delayed' loans ...also having trouble selling loans that have very small amounts outstanding....a few €'s etc.

littlevillage

Cute Hoor wrote: »

It doesn't look like I can sell the 'defaulted' loans, is this correct.
Do they ever become sellable

Yeah, I can't sell 'Defaulted' or 'Delayed' loans ...also having trouble selling loans that have very small amounts outstanding....a few €'s etc.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Ah, i should have mentioned all of my loans were with buyback "T" loans.

Cute Hoor

It doesn't look like I can sell the 'defaulted' loans, is this correct.
Do they ever become sellable

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I reached out to TWINO for comment and I haven't had any reply. They have replied to other emails but not my query relating to the auditors report or blog post.

In the meantime I have withdrawn all of my funds from TWINO. For anyone that is interested in the process, go to my investments and to the right of each invest is a SELL button. You can sell any portion of your investment. When you sell, you'll receive your principal investment plus any interest to the day you sold the investment. All of my investments sold in less than a min, I am guessing due to demand. Very simple process and the withdrawal process took two days.

littlevillage wrote: »

Looks like Twino is struggling with high levels of defaults.

http://explorep2p.com/twino-update/

It will be interesting to see if they can turn things around or if this wil be the first big Latvian/European p2p casualty ?

On monthly Lending volume, Twino is one of the bigger p2p lenders soo if they can get into trouble, is it also an ominous sign for other players, especially the smaller outfits?

https://www.p2p-banking.com/tag/loan-volume/

vargoo

littlevillage wrote: »

Looks like Twino is struggling with high levels of defaults.

http://explorep2p.com/twino-update/

It will be interesting to see if they can turn things around or if this wil be the first big Latvian/European p2p casualty ?

On monthly Lending volume, Twino is one of the bigger p2p lenders soo if they can get into trouble, is it also an ominous sign for other players, especially the smaller outfits?

https://www.p2p-banking.com/tag/loan-volume/

Yea, they're the ones that stopped releasing financials that I mentioned before.

Wouldn't touch them because of that. And tough sh1t for all those that get burned without doing some basic checks really.

Twino pays for an originator that defaults? Is that right?

The overall group made money here though.

littlevillage

Looks like Twino is struggling with high levels of defaults.

http://explorep2p.com/twino-update/

It will be interesting to see if they can turn things around or if this wil be the first big Latvian/European p2p casualty ?

On monthly Lending volume, Twino is one of the bigger p2p lenders soo if they can get into trouble, is it also an ominous sign for other players, especially the smaller outfits?

https://www.p2p-banking.com/tag/loan-volume/

bohsman

I made my first deposit in August 2016 but only really started increasing around July 2018 so it's a bit early into the majority of my loans. I have autoinvest set up to put a tenner on every available loan. I have 50% Mintos, 50% Finbee with Mintos only buyback short term loans so willing to take some more risk here. After a deposit it usually takes me a week or so to get fully invested as there would usually only be 15-20 loans available at any one time but no cashdrag on reinvested funds.

They appear to be good with debt collection, the day the loan is late it will be updated with info along the lines of customer contacted, payment will be made by x date in the next 2-3 weeks, with weekly or so updates for attempting to contact before an update that the loan agreement has been cancelled and court proceedings have begun to bailiffs sent for collection updates.

Stats on their late/default and recovered defaults here - https://www.finbee.lt/en/about-us/statistics/

Date Status
2019-01-18 Borrower was informed by email and message about late payment.
2019-01-18 Successful attempt to contact the client. Waiting for payment 2019-01-21.

2017-06-13 Failed attempt to contact the client.
2017-07-21 Notification due to contract termination sent.
2017-09-01 Client put to court.
2018-03-23 The court was unable to deliver court order documents, therefore lawsuit is being prepared.
2018-04-20 Court has been contacted regarding debt recovery. After executive document will be issued, debt recovery will be transferred to bailiff.
2018-07-17 Court has issued an executive document.
2018-07-30 Court has issued an executive document.
2018-08-22 Court has issued an executive document.
2018-10-08 Sent to bailiffs for collection.

I haven't looked too closely into the exact numbers to see if the 20% is correct but everything seems to add up, they do deduct 15% from your interest for Lithuanian income tax -

According to Income Tax Law of the Republic of Lithuania, FinBee is responsible for the collection and payment of income tax for non-residents. The income tax rate is 15 percent and it is deducted from earned interest. The platform automatically deducts it every time when loan installment is received.
If you are non-resident of Lithuania and you are living in a country which has valid Double Taxation Avoidance Treaty with Lithuania, you can apply for the reduced personal income tax rate. Please contact us by e-mail for further instructions how to apply the reduced personal income tax rate.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Are you investing in mostly C and D rated loans? How is the platform overall? Any feedback on the debt collection process? 20% appears very high of course. Have you calculated your return yourself? How long are you with Finbee. Anything else you would add? Thanks!

bohsman wrote: »

Update on Finbee as I'm one of the only ones around here using them I think. They have also announced January was a record month for them with 980k loans issued.

Average interest: 20%
Status Count
On time 240
Late 17
Arrears 10
Default 6

bohsman

Update on Finbee as I'm one of the only ones around here using them I think. They have also announced January was a record month for them with 980k loans issued.

Average interest: 20%
Status Count
On time 240
Late 17
Arrears 10
Default 6

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Untaxed Income arising in the State -> Other Investments

sonyvision

delta_bravo wrote: »

Hey just wondering if anyone has done their form 12 yet for the year and what category they used to declare the income from the loans? Thanks

Havn't dont mine yet as i only got my p60. However last year I put it in as any other income and wrote interest from Peer to Peer lending in the option box

delta_bravo

Hey just wondering if anyone has done their form 12 yet for the year and what category they used to declare the income from the loans? Thanks

vargoo

Supercell wrote: »

I see loans that match you criteria is back finally on Mintos - 0! , hope I don't need to go messing with auto-invest criteria again.

It's back awhile.

Have you only 1 auto? You just use the highest rated originators?

Set up a second auto invest with the B team originators and set portfolio size small so you don't end up with all your funds in it.

Supercell

I see loans that match you criteria is back finally on Mintos - 0! , hope I don't need to go messing with auto-invest criteria again.

P2PBanking.com

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

Is anyone willing or able to give us a review of pro-investor status benefits. Is it worth it? Don't' be shy

Opinion on my German forum is, that there (currently) are no really attractive benefits from the status

Shelflife

The Pro Investor option wouldnt entice you to go for it would it now !

I had the same cash drag with Peer Berry but it seems to be resolved now.

All others are fully invested.

Envestio is slow but ive as much as I want in it, agree that the super rates seems to have eased back a bit.

Still cutting back on Fast invest just slowly reducing my exposure there until we find out a bit more about them.

Had two missed payments with Linked Finance , both flagged straight away and both resolved within a week so very happy with that .

Tidied up my autoinvest on Mintos based on the updated lenders report that Project Moose flagged (thanks for that moose)

Overall happy enough with my lot.

Just need to work on the Mintos Pro status now ! Do we get a badge if we reach it ?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

To save some of you having to follow the link, here's a summary of the pro-investor on Mintos:

- A pro-investor must have (or had) 50k invested
- A personal investment account manager (? not sure why you would want or need this?)
- Limited edition offers
- Early access to new features
- Custom made reports
- Top priority customer support

About sums it up.

Is anyone willing or able to give us a review of pro-investor status benefits. Is it worth it? Don't' be shy

P2PBanking.com

There is said to be "Pro-Investor" status if you have invested more than 50K. I don't have that. here is what mintos officially says about that status:
https://www.mintos.com/en/pro-investor/

chris2000

currently on Mintos and find it really good. Always large amount of loans to choose from and website is pretty good - albeit a little slow.

anyone have a large amount in Mintos - do they give any special treatment or breaks to their larger investors?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

A quick snapshot of the last few weeks:

PeerBerry - my auto-invest is acting up. I am seeing cash drag when there are plenty of loans available that match my auto-invest portfolio settings. Lot of loan availability, mostly short term 11% 2day to 30 days loans. There are 11.5 and 12% loans available every few days. There are longer term 12.4% 2 year loans available too.

Swaper - I continue to be fully invested, which is a nice change.

TWINO - A little cash drag lately. There appears to be plenty of loan availability early sat morning.

Viventor - no cash drag at all. Plenty of loan availability with rates 8% to 14%.

Grupeer - no cash drag in recent weeks. Nice to see a significant increase in loan availability. Loans available with rates 11% to 14%, terms 8 months to 12 months.

Lenndy - no cash drag but a very large volume of my 'First Finance' loans are 31-60 days late.

Robocash - no cash drag, although rates have been reduced to 12%. Plenty of loan availability it seems.

ViaInvest - a little cash drag. I am seeing a shortage in installment and short term loans. Lots of credit line loans available with viainvest borrower ratings 9.7/8 of 10.

FastInvest - no cash drag whatsoever. Plenty of loan availability. My auto-invest is picking up 13.5% EUR 6+month loans lately, although there can be 15% loans available from time to time.

Mintos - still the leader of the pack. approx. 330k loans available. Their website really needs work though, it has become very slow at times. Random login errors and sections of the website disappearing with no information as to why or when the sections will be back. I do understand that they are seeing a significant increase in users but that is no excuse in my mind. Support is excellent as always but expect to wait a couple of days for a response.

Envestio - only about 10 near loans in Jan and most loans are another tier of an already existing loan. I see a number of my short terms loans were paid back recently too with no issues or delays. Rates have dropped to 15-17% on average, they were significantly higher not so long ago (21+%).

EstateGuru - as mentioned previously, one of my loans is now in default and the bailiff is involved. Will keep and eye on this one.

I expect to increase my p2p portfolio in the next few weeks. Most likely Mintos, Viventor and ViaInvest.

P2PBanking.com

vargoo wrote: »

Maybe P2P-Banking.com theirs a job for you, an article on the most recent financials on all of these platforms?

Thanks for the job offer. Quite a tedious work prospect.
If you are looking for discussion analysis of the (missing) annual reports of the individual Mintos loan originators there is quite a bit of that going on on the German Mintos forum at P2P-Kredite.com

To sum it up, there are some originators which supply detailed reports, some that have not filed for a while and some where no reports are available. There is also discussion about the losses some of these originators make.

vargoo

P2PBanking.com wrote: »

Obviously a recession will impact returns. The question is how much. And everybody has been saying that recession is right around the corner -- since about 3-4 years now.
The nearest comparable long term stats that can be used as an indicator is the return the credit card caompanies made on credit card debts. For the US and UK that data is available for several decades. And even recessions were profitable times for these companies.

My gut feeling is that a recession would impact platforms for property and SME loans harder than platforms for consumer loans.

I don't see the risk of widespread platform failures (like in China). But the failure of single platforms is a common occurance and to be expected. Examples in the past were Boober, Fairrates, Trustbuddy, Comunitae, Unilend, Bankless Life, ... just to name a few.

Concerning moving out. I exited Lendy last autumn, have much reduced Moneything and not adding anymore tow Ablrate. Thereby moved out of 2 of the 3 UK platform I used, mainly because I think that Brexit might add more negative factors then positive chances for their outcome. But I think the big three in UK: Zopa, Ratesetter and Funding Circle won't be much impacted by brexit.

Mintos are taking a bit of a battering in their own news comments section lately and no response from them...

I see people firing money into these platforms and the only thing they are checking is how high the interest rate is, one of the big (ish) ones hasn't released any figures for 3 years, they just stopped.

Another big (ish) one, lots of you use on here, again no figures and only thing I can find on the parent is, it is (or was) on the tax avoidance register in Latvia.

I can find reasons not to go near most of the sites, so I don't.

Maybe I just don't know how to find this info?? I've asked on here and elsewhere to no response so I'm guessing no one on here checks at all?? WTF like?

Maybe P2PBanking.com theirs a job for you, an article on the most recent financials on all of these platforms?

P2PBanking.com

Obviously a recession will impact returns. The question is how much. And everybody has been saying that recession is right around the corner -- since about 3-4 years now.
The nearest comparable long term stats that can be used as an indicator is the return the credit card caompanies made on credit card debts. For the US and UK that data is available for several decades. And even recessions were profitable times for these companies.

My gut feeling is that a recession would impact platforms for property and SME loans harder than platforms for consumer loans.

I don't see the risk of widespread platform failures (like in China). But the failure of single platforms is a common occurance and to be expected. Examples in the past were Boober, Fairrates, Trustbuddy, Comunitae, Unilend, Bankless Life, ... just to name a few.

Concerning moving out. I exited Lendy last autumn, have much reduced Moneything and not adding anymore tow Ablrate. Thereby moved out of 2 of the 3 UK platform I used, mainly because I think that Brexit might add more negative factors then positive chances for their outcome. But I think the big three in UK: Zopa, Ratesetter and Funding Circle won't be much impacted by brexit.

littlevillage

P2PBanking.com wrote: »

Yes, I am. I would have taken "P2P-Banking.com" as a user name, but the board software would not let me.

By way of introduction: I publish P2P-Banking.com and P2P-Kredite.com (german) since 2007. Since the same time I am investing on p2p lending marketplaces. I am diversified over about 15 marketplaces, but most are only small positions to gain first hand experience. My largest portfolios at the moment are at Mintos, Linked Finance, Bondora, Ratesetter (AUS), Estateguru, Fellow Finance and Iuvo.
You can read more details on my blog(s).

I have been reading your Website for some time now. Thanks for all the interesting information on P2P, especially Loan Volumes

Have about 1/3 of my entire investment portfolio now in P2P (Its more profitable than any thing else I do, but I am backing out slowly, due to fears it might just be too good to be true).

What if any risks do you see coming down the line for P2P lenders? Global recession leading to job losses and larger than expected numbers of loan defaults? or maybe problems with a major P2P portal leading to a chaotic exit by investors de-stabilizing the whole market ? (like we have seen in China)

P2PBanking.com

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

May I ask if you are one of authors or contributors from P2P-Banking.com ?

Yes, I am. I would have taken "P2P-Banking.com" as a user name, but the board software would not let me.

By way of introduction: I publish P2P-Banking.com and P2P-Kredite.com (german) since 2007. Since the same time I am investing on p2p lending marketplaces. I am diversified over about 15 marketplaces, but most are only small positions to gain first hand experience. My largest portfolios at the moment are at Mintos, Linked Finance, Bondora, Ratesetter (AUS), Estateguru, Fellow Finance and Iuvo.
You can read more details on my blog(s).

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Hi there, Thanks for the input. I'll take a look at my figures in the morning.

May I ask if you are one of authors or contributors from P2P-Banking.com ?

P2PBanking.com wrote: »

Same issuer was reported by some users on my German forum. There was a technical issue. Apparently it has been fixed meanwhile. If your problem still persists it is worth contacting Mintos support.

P2PBanking.com

Clara Sparse Windbreak wrote: »

I have a query regarding Mintos and 'missing funds'. There is a thread on a german forum about this issue so I decided to do some calculations myself.

I currently have all my funds invested. I presumed if I took all my deposits, deducted my withdrawals and included my profit, it should equal or be close to my total invested funds. But I have a difference of a few hundred euro. Am I missing a value from my calculation, or more worryingly, am I 'missing funds'?

Same issuer was reported by some users on my German forum. There was a technical issue. Apparently it has been fixed meanwhile. If your problem still persists it is worth contacting Mintos support.

Wegian

Thanks Moose, I’ll try that

Edit: I have tried it and it worked almost immediately