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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

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Professor Moriarty

tuxy wrote: »

What would happen if they just refereed to each other as gentleman/woman and not the right honorable/the honorable gengleman/woman?

Who gives a crap what they call themselves. Sir, Lord, Dame, Honorable, whatever. They're just human beings. No better or worse than anyone else. A load of manure that only works if you buy into their rubbish.

Stacksofwacks

Gintonious wrote: »

Makes a good point, if they leave on the whole WTO garbage, who would want to try and deal with a shower like this?

Us poor sods. Only thing they are good for is bullying their neighbours.

An Ciarraioch

Not a numerically significant group, but European Greens press release:

http://twitter.com/europeangreens/status/1090357435083210752

Flex

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Next phase of the blame game has begun. May goes to Brussels with big smiles and warm words, pledging to battle for the British people.

They remind her - for the 1,000th time - that the backstop is not up for negotiation.

She returns to the UK and tells the country that Brussels has been intransigent and unreasonable. She then appeals to the Blitz spirit, stiff upper lip mentality that they are known for around the world.

Her country will be divided, the GFA will be in tatters, and she'll still have to return to the negotiating table only with a weaker hand, but on the plus side the Tories won't be so cross with her, the media will stop drawing funny pictures of her, and the DUP will pat her on the back for standing up to the bullies.

This is the woman that threw a strop at the suggestion she was 'nebulous'. To call her that is to be generous. She's criminally negligent.

This is exactly whats going to happen. She has been so disingenuous and disgusting carrying on with this pretence knowing beforehand that the EU will not open renegotiations. She will head to Brussels with this new 'mandate', claim the UK wanted to work out a solution and mutually beneficial agreement, blah blah blah, be rebuffed for wasting everyones time and return laying absolutely all of the blame on the EU and Ireland. "We wanted to talk and negotiate in good faith, but the EU being bullys and thinking they could steam roll us, wouldnt talk", it will be along those lines.

This has all been caused by the snap election she called resulting in her needing the DUP. It was they who caused the backstop to be applied to the entire UK, instead of just Northern Ireland (which would have been an incredible outcome for Northern Ireland as it originally stood). And perhaps its just frustration at the impending impact to Ireland as a result of Brexit, but I honestly believe the reason so many in the British Parliament cant stomach the backstop as it is now is because they view it as Ireland, for the first time, not being steamrolled in the history of the relationship of Ireland and Great Britain.

I remember when all of this started 2 years ago and people were saying how ill prepared and aimless the UK position was, but thinking in the end it would be fine. I honestly cant believe the series of events the UK government has caused and carried out during this. Staggering.

And as an aside, Ian Blackford's speech at the end of the debate was spot on.

Hurrache

Watching Prime Time I only now realise the Malthouse Compromise is named after an MP and not a restaurant or pub it was devised in.

Imreoir2

This kind of shyte is why we need a backstop.

FrancieBrady

Verhofstadt having none of it either
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1090364759982198789

Paranoid Bob

Enzokk wrote: »

The EU has rejected May asking for new negotiations and we have as well it seems.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1090355988153155584

According to Laura Kuenssberg, "Irish govt reaction - 'The Withdrawal Agreement is not open for re-negotiation'"

So May will go back to Brussels to get nothing next week. In the mean time we are then one week closer to Brexit day and even if she gets to somehow get her deal passed with some magic dust, how will they have enough time to get it passed through parliament to make it law in the UK? They will need to ask for an extension of article 50 and I suppose the EU will grant it to them to get it passed.

I think that is very disappointing and there is a much better response to the Brady amendment.

The Irish government and EU should welcome the passing of that amendment with enthusiasm, and absolutely guarantee that once alternative arrangements to prevent a hard border are agreed then the backstop will not apply.

That was always the plan anyway ...

boggerman1

Angry brexiteer on lbc just now."ye can have your £39bn but you'll never take our freedom".jesus wept

tuxy

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Who gives a crap what they call themselves. Sir, Lord, Dame, Honorable, whatever. They're just human beings. No better or worse than anyone else. A load of manure that only works if you buy into their rubbish.

I saw just replying to a post that said these old terms were necessary and I was unsure why.

maynooth_rules

The only renegotation that the EU should offer the UK is that it returns to a Northern Ireland only backstop, i.e. what she originally agreed to. Then let her grow a pair and throw the DUP under the bus. It will come down to what is more important, peace and an open border in ireland, or a relationship with the dinosaurs in the DUP whom she wouldnt think twice of throwing under the bus were there no balance of power

hotmail.com

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

Hurrache

hotmail.com wrote: »

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

She was absolutely fine.

hotmail.com

More money will now be spent on a no deal outcome.

For Forks Sake

hotmail.com wrote: »

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

A politician briefed on their remit? It's a look a lot of MPs at Westminster could do with following tbh

hotmail.com

Hurrache wrote:

She was absolutely fine.

That's the problem.

BonnieSituation

hotmail.com wrote: »

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

Where was she?

lawred2

hotmail.com wrote: »

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

She was perfectly fine

What are you specifically refer to?

blanch152

Surely, alternative arrangements to the backstop include staying in the Customs Unions and Single Market.

The EU could offer to reopen negotiations on that basis.

nc6000

BonnieSituation wrote:

Where was she?

Just been on Prime Time discussing the Brexit events from today.

blanch152

hotmail.com wrote: »

Helen McEntee out of her depth. It's like she's learned off every answer as if she's doing her leaving cert.

Which British MP would you take instead of her?

blackcard

Sky News main headline "Theresa May has taken back control"

hotmail.com

lawred2 wrote:

What are you specifically refer to?

It's just my observation. I respect that you disagree.

awec

blanch152 wrote: »

Surely, alternative arrangements to the backstop include staying in the Customs Unions and Single Market.

The EU could offer to reopen negotiations on that basis.

Brexiteers would never accept it.

The whole reason we have the backstop is they don't wan the customs union or the single market.

Imreoir2

Sam Russell wrote: »

Have you seen the Swiss guards at the Vatican? That is real medieval.

Renaissance actually.

View

Imreoir2 wrote: »

This kind of shyte is why we need a backstop.

Nope, this kind of shyte is why we need to clearly state we will roll out the barbed wire after Brexit day, join Schengen and start making legal provisions for doing this.

It is precisely because we have given the impression that a hard border is completely unthinkable to us that Brexiters believe they can get away with this shyte. So long as they think we will do anything to avoid a hard border, they believe that we will eventually capitulate if they just prove awkward enough. To their mind, they don’t need to compromise if we are going to cave sooner or later to avoid a hard border.

maynooth_rules

blackcard wrote: »

Sky News main headline "Theresa May has taken back control"

I found that so laughable. I dont think the British even realise how much of a laughing stock they have become, and how as a country, their respectability is on the floor

J Mysterio

Ian Dunt is getting pretty blunt https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1090365295150141442

I think we need the light relief though.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1090366183499579393

Cover of the Metro: "Over to EU".
The EU won't take this on though. The WA is ready to go and wont be reopened. The UK need to own their horrible mess.

Hurrache

maynooth_rules wrote: »

I found that so laughable. I dont think the British even realise how much of a laughing stock they have become, and how as a country, their respectability is on the floor

I suspect they mean control over her government and parliament? They've been pretty decent all evening as to the realities of the situation, I don't believe they think for a moment she's in control of negotiations.

View

blackcard wrote: »

Sky News main headline "Theresa May has taken back control"

The whole was nicely summarised by one commentator as the Conservatives had finally united behind a common position - just one that had no relation to reality. :-)