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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

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Hurrache

devnull wrote: »

What we're essentially seeing tonight is what we already know, British politicians will happily sacrifice the tens of millions of peoples future in their country to ensure the survival of their own party. It's almost treason.

We're likely to see them vote down every single possible option and vote for the one that isn't possible, because that is pretty much how dysfunctional things have become.

It's tragic for those living in the UK who are losing jobs or facing impending hardship through no fault of their own.

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1090342414630506496?s=19

Brought up on Sky News too, but Isabel Oakeshott, who's always painful to listen to, having none of it.

hotmail.com

Imreoir2 wrote:

Something has changed, the assumption that Parliament would extend/revoke A50 should no deal be agreed now has serious questions hanging over it.

I'm not sure that was ever on the cards because parliament can only approve or reject laws proposed by the executive.

Akrasia

Kiith wrote: »

No's have it (Cooper amendment).

Bunch of turkeys voting for christmas. They'll probably pass Brady's amendment now

joe40

Is there a possibility ( I know clutching at straws) that May goes to Europe, gets nothing maybe a fudge somewhere. Then comes back puts the original deal back on the table.
This time round faced with the prospect of no deal a combination of pro eu tories and labour with lib dems and SNP vote through the deal.
Obviously DUP and hardline brexiteers won't budge but can they be sidelined.
Is that just magical thinking?

[Deleted User]

Reeves amendment voted down by 322 to 290. Spelman/Dromey proposal next. MPs to reject leaving without a deal. No legal compulsion on the government to act on it though.

Stacksofwacks

joe40 wrote: »

Is there a possibility ( I know clutching at straws) that May goes to Europe, gets nothing maybe a fudge somewhere. Then comes back puts the original deal back on the table.
This time round faced with the prospect of no deal a combination of pro eu tories and labour with lib dems and SNP vote through the deal.
Obviously DUP and hardline brexiteers won't budge but can they be sidelined.
Is that just magical thinking?

I wouldnt trust May to tie her shoelaces. Its going to be no deal and the border is going back up, which means we'll probably have to leave too.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Reeves amendment voted down by 322 to 290. Spelman/Dromey proposal next. MPs to reject leaving without a deal. No legal compulsion on the government to act on it though.

Passed 318 to 310. Interesting.

Kiith

Spellman amendment voted in.

Hurrache

Well we could have a paradox coming up which may suck the UK into a black hole after that result.

Irishmale0399

Kiith wrote: »

Spellman amendment voted in.

Not legally binding. Just saying MPs are against the idea of No Deal

eagle eye

Is there a possibility that the EU will soften their stance and give the UK what they are now looking for?
Clearly the innocent bystanders in all this who will suffer greatly are the residents of the Republic of Ireland. We are facing the possibility of the return of Republican and Unionist paramilitaries. We are facing a huge loss of jobs.

Beechwoodspark

I really think at this stage the Eu need to pour complete cold water on May and her latest wheeze.

She should be sent packing from Brussels within minutes of arrival.

Harsh yes.

But at this stage the House of Commons need something drastic to make them realise they are the WEAKER party in this negotiation and either take the deal or leave with no deal.

Put up or shut up basically

A Dub in Glasgo

eagle eye wrote: »

Is there a possibility that the EU will soften their stance and give the UK what they are now looking for?
Clearly the innocent bystanders in all this who will suffer greatly are the residents of the Republic of Ireland. We are facing the possibility of the return of Republican and Unionist paramilitaries. We are facing a huge loss of jobs.

Doubt it

Sierra Oscar

eagle eye wrote: »

Is there a possibility that the EU will soften their stance and give the UK what they are now looking for?
Clearly the innocent bystanders in all this who will suffer greatly are the residents of the Republic of Ireland. We are facing the possibility of the return of Republican and Unionist paramilitaries. We are facing a huge loss of jobs.

I thought the EU Commission might be softening its stance last week, but glad to admit I was wrong given the strong assurances we have seen on the backstop in recent days. I don't see the EU Commission making any major compromises at the moment. It looks like the UK Government / House of Commons are just antagonising the EU negotiating team and that won't help them.

Enzokk

Deleted User wrote: »

Did any pro-Remain Tories vote for the Grieve or Cooper amendments I wonder? The numbers appear such that very few may have done. Or did some Brexit supporting Labour MPs vote against?

This tweet has a list of Labour MPs who voted against the Cooper amendment. The problem with having a leader who constantly defied the whip is that he cannot reasonable expect his MPs to follow the Whip.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1090345300215111681

eagle eye wrote: »

Is there a possibility that the EU will soften their stance and give the UK what they are now looking for?
Clearly the innocent bystanders in all this who will suffer greatly are the residents of the Republic of Ireland. We are facing the possibility of the return of Republican and Unionist paramilitaries. We are facing a huge loss of jobs.

If you give in an inch they will want a mile. There is nothing more to give other than clarifications which will not satisfy Brexiteers.

Irishmale0399

eagle eye wrote: »

Is there a possibility that the EU will soften their stance and give the UK what they are now looking for?
Clearly the innocent bystanders in all this who will suffer greatly are the residents of the Republic of Ireland. We are facing the possibility of the return of Republican and Unionist paramilitaries. We are facing a huge loss of jobs.

If anything Ireland will gain jobs as will the whole EU. Many UK based companies are moving to remain in the EU markets.

Lets hope the EU stands hard....cant give in to a nation who forget they have nothing to offer the whole of the EU. They have nothing we need.

VinLieger

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

I wouldnt trust May to tie her shoelaces. Its going to be no deal and the border is going back up, which means we'll probably have to leave too.

Why would we have to leave? As someone pointed out earlier such a process would likely take 5+ years so completely pointless

Stacksofwacks

VinLieger wrote: »

Why would we have to leave? As someone pointed out earlier such a process would likely take 5+ years so completely pointless

If there is a hard border and violence is returning, we might have no option

Mr.Nice Guy

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

If anything Ireland will gain jobs as will the whole EU. Many UK based companies are moving to remain in the EU markets.

Not according to our own government.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0129/1026271-economy-brexit-finance/

Akrasia

Enzokk wrote: »

This tweet has a list of Labour MPs who voted against the Cooper amendment. The problem with having a leader who constantly defied the whip is that he cannot reasonable expect his MPs to follow the Whip.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1090345300215111681

If you give in an inch they will want a mile. There is nothing more to give other than clarifications which will not satisfy Brexiteers.

If any of those labour MPs vote in favour of the Brady Amendment they should be kicked out of the labour party

Hurrache

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

If there is a hard border and violence is returning, we might have no option

It's not happening, no point in bringing up leaving.

L1011

Akrasia wrote: »

If any of those labour MPs bote in favour of the Brady Amendment they should be kicked out of the labour party

Hoey probably will. She is very likely to be deselected anyway.

VinLieger

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

If there is a hard border and violence is returning, we might have no option

Lol im really not sure if your serious or just a really bad troll.

Crippling ourselves for decades economically is not a viable solution to anything

Folkstonian

Akrasia wrote: »

If any of those labour MPs vote in favour of the Brady Amendment they should be kicked out of the labour party

Why so?

The current leader of the Labour Party voted against the whip literally hundreds of times as a back bencher.

Enzokk

So it seems that 14 Labour MPs voted against the Cooper amendment and 17 Conservatives for it. Once again if Corbyn had any control he would have been able to have the amendment pass.

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1090345584840663040

Amazingly this is being spun as a win for Corbyn, because he is not a dictator that has all his MPs voting the same way.

VinLieger

L1011 wrote: »

Hoey probably will. She is very likely to be deselected anyway.

I thought she already had been?

Stacksofwacks

VinLieger wrote: »

Lol im really not sure if your serious or just a really bad troll.

Crippling ourselves for decades economically is not a viable solution to anything

It depends how it plays out. It could get to a stage whether we have to weigh up if people dying is preferable to a few years of economic turbulence

Akrasia

Brady has passed

317 to 301

“You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!”

An Ciarraioch

Brady amendment passed.

Hurrache

What a **** show of a parliament.

I await the EU reps responses.