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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

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Kiith

Spellman amendment voted in.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Reeves amendment voted down by 322 to 290. Spelman/Dromey proposal next. MPs to reject leaving without a deal. No legal compulsion on the government to act on it though.

Passed 318 to 310. Interesting.

Stacksofwacks

joe40 wrote: »

Is there a possibility ( I know clutching at straws) that May goes to Europe, gets nothing maybe a fudge somewhere. Then comes back puts the original deal back on the table.
This time round faced with the prospect of no deal a combination of pro eu tories and labour with lib dems and SNP vote through the deal.
Obviously DUP and hardline brexiteers won't budge but can they be sidelined.
Is that just magical thinking?

I wouldnt trust May to tie her shoelaces. Its going to be no deal and the border is going back up, which means we'll probably have to leave too.

[Deleted User]

Reeves amendment voted down by 322 to 290. Spelman/Dromey proposal next. MPs to reject leaving without a deal. No legal compulsion on the government to act on it though.

joe40

Is there a possibility ( I know clutching at straws) that May goes to Europe, gets nothing maybe a fudge somewhere. Then comes back puts the original deal back on the table.
This time round faced with the prospect of no deal a combination of pro eu tories and labour with lib dems and SNP vote through the deal.
Obviously DUP and hardline brexiteers won't budge but can they be sidelined.
Is that just magical thinking?

Akrasia

Kiith wrote: »

No's have it (Cooper amendment).

Bunch of turkeys voting for christmas. They'll probably pass Brady's amendment now

hotmail.com

Imreoir2 wrote:

Something has changed, the assumption that Parliament would extend/revoke A50 should no deal be agreed now has serious questions hanging over it.

I'm not sure that was ever on the cards because parliament can only approve or reject laws proposed by the executive.

Hurrache

devnull wrote: »

What we're essentially seeing tonight is what we already know, British politicians will happily sacrifice the tens of millions of peoples future in their country to ensure the survival of their own party. It's almost treason.

We're likely to see them vote down every single possible option and vote for the one that isn't possible, because that is pretty much how dysfunctional things have become.

It's tragic for those living in the UK who are losing jobs or facing impending hardship through no fault of their own.

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1090342414630506496?s=19

Brought up on Sky News too, but Isabel Oakeshott, who's always painful to listen to, having none of it.

L1011

murphaph wrote: »

So very rarely is what you're saying. Day to say stuff is done electronically.

A walk-through vote can be called after the electronic voting. Usually done for grandstanding purposes or the vague hope someone will have a last second change of mind if it was that tight a vote. Happens infrequently but not never.

ilovesmybrick

hotmail.com wrote:

So with none of these amendments passing, it means that nothing has changed. The UK is heading for a no deal Brexit.

Well the simple fact is they've spent two months arguing amongst themselves. Not the EU, not Ireland, barely the opposition, it has been months since the deal was agreed of the tories fighting themselves.

Capt'n Midnight

hotmail.com wrote: »

So with none of these amendments passing, it means that nothing has changed. The UK is heading for a no deal Brexit.

It's OK , the next one will change all that

It's a non-binding amendment to ....

Ah , nevermind

Stacksofwacks

devnull wrote: »

What we're essentially seeing tonight is what we already know, British politicians will happily sacrifice the tens of millions of peoples future in their country to ensure the survival of their own party. It's almost treason.

We're likely to see them vote down every single possible option and vote for the one that isn't possible, because that is pretty much how dysfunctional things have become.

It's tragic for those living in the UK who are losing jobs or facing impending hardship through no fault of their own.

Thats it, complete lack of leadership from all sides, they are playing party politics in a national emergency

devnull

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Almost?

Daniel Kawczynski, a Tory MP asked Poland to interfere to prevent an extension of Article 50.

A British politician, a Tory no less who allegedly wants what's best for Britain has asked a foreign power to interfere in its affairs in the event that Parliament, which is sovereign decides on a different course such that charting this new course becomes impossible.

Surely that's the best modern example of treason going.

That particular example is treason, I'd agree with you on that and honest, the UK doesn't need the likes of Law and Justice getting involved in politics, they have been behind some pretty awful policies in Poland with regards to the judiciary and whilst the rightmost wing of the Tory party might have something in common with them, their influence really isn't needed in the UK.

Imreoir2

hotmail.com wrote: »

So with none of these amendments passing, it means that nothing has changed. The UK is heading for a no deal Brexit.

Something has changed, the assumption that Parliament would extend/revoke A50 should no deal be agreed now has serious questions hanging over it.

Itssoeasy

murphaph wrote: »

So very rarely is what you're saying. Day to say stuff is done electronically.

Yes rarely but you said it was done away with which it hasn't been.

hotmail.com

So with none of these amendments passing, it means that nothing has changed. The UK is heading for a no deal Brexit.

ancapailldorcha

devnull wrote: »

What we're essentially seeing tonight is what we already know, British politicians will happily sacrifice the tens of millions of peoples future in their country to ensure the survival of their own party. It's almost treason.

Almost?

Daniel Kawczynski, a Tory MP asked Poland to interfere to prevent an extension of Article 50.

A British politician, a Tory no less who allegedly wants what's best for Britain has asked a foreign power to interfere in its affairs in the event that Parliament, which is sovereign decides on a different course such that charting this new course becomes impossible.

Surely that's the best modern example of treason going.

Imreoir2

Enzokk wrote: »

The pound has dropped this evening.

https://twitter.com/Brexit/status/1090338810125275136

It has dropped a little bit, after gaining in value for about a month now, it is still well above where it was before Christmas. Who knows why it has gone up, but the slight drop today still leaves it well ahead of where it was for most of the last 6 months.

Spanish Eyes

Enzokk wrote: »

The pound has dropped this evening.

https://twitter.com/Brexit/status/1090338810125275136

Big profits if UK decides to compromise. Betting heaven.

[Deleted User]

Did any pro-Remain Tories vote for the Grieve or Cooper amendments I wonder? The numbers appear such that very few may have done. Or did some Brexit supporting Labour MPs vote against?

Mr.Nice Guy

Remember that scene in Superman II when Lois is convinced Clark is bluffing about being Superman so she throws herself in the rapids, expecting any minute Superman will come swooping down to save her, only to wind up being left soaked and humiliated afterwards? Westminster right now is in the process of taking off its shoes and taking a deep breath. The EU has to hold its nerve and be ready to extend the olive branch when the cold dollop of reality hits.

Spanish Eyes

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Have you paid the blindest bit of notice of the last week?

Literally the post above yours says that Macron has told them to STFU.

The EU won't be blinking.

We don't know that really, do you?

Enzokk

The pound has dropped this evening.

https://twitter.com/Brexit/status/1090338810125275136

murphaph

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The dail still have voting that isn't electronic. Its for electing of the Taoiseach and it still happens even when a vote electronically has happened.

So very rarely is what you're saying. Day to say stuff is done electronically.

Spanish Eyes

The UK want the best of both worlds.

Why not decide on a NO DEAL straight after the referendum? Obvious choice.

Ah, ok, they may lose something there. But here we are at the same juncture again.

EU better bat them off now, or in fairness I would be wondering about the cohesion of the 27 now. UK needs a wake up call, and if the UK is in any way facilitated by EU now, it is bye bye EU.

We are next.

Itssoeasy

branie2 wrote: »

How many more amendments are there?

Two more I think.

Itssoeasy

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah but this division carry on is so inefficient. The Dáil got rid of it years ago. A simple electronic voting system might not have all the pomp and circumstance of this ancient method but parliament is there to pass legislation.

It points to their attachment with old but often outdated principles. FPTP being the most obvious one.

The dail still have voting that isn't electronic. Its for electing of the Taoiseach and it still happens even when a vote electronically has happened.

devnull

What we're essentially seeing tonight is what we already know, British politicians will happily sacrifice the tens of millions of peoples future in their country to ensure the survival of their own party. It's almost treason.

We're likely to see them vote down every single possible option and vote for the one that isn't possible, because that is pretty much how dysfunctional things have become.

It's tragic for those living in the UK who are losing jobs or facing impending hardship through no fault of their own.

lapua20grain

A lot of people on Twitter really annoyed that Junker confirmed with May at 11am Irish time that they would not be reopening discussions and to go to Europe would be pointless. This was reported by Tony Connolly of RTE fame earlier before her speech to the HOC, so she knew it was folly and still went ahead with it. The mind boggles

Imreoir2

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Sigh - Brady is going to pass, isn't it?

This is Brexit we are talking about, of course it is going to pass, whats one more swing round the merrygoround when your country has lost all credibility anyway.