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Brexit Discussion Thread VI

johnnyskeleton

Hi folks, as Theresa May has won the vote of no confidence and we are heading into Brexit day early next year, I thought for the new thread people might give their summary of their views on Brexit to date before we get into the more day to day discussions.

So what do you think about what has happened so far? Who has come off well, who has come off badly?

Where do you think Brexit is going? What is going to be the likely impact on Ireland, Northern Ireland, the rest of the U.K. and the E.U. respectively?

Both this thread and the Mark V thread will remain open simultaneously for the next day or so and Mark V will be closed as it gets closer to the server busting 10,000 mark. Hopefully we can set down a solid foundation now for a top quality thread to come!

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First Up

downcow wrote:

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength. Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

Maybe when it sinks in that the UK has no negotiating strength, you will take a different view.

GSRNBP

Shelga wrote: »

Sammy Wilson is truly repulsive, as well as thick. With every moronic utterance of his, a united Ireland gets closer.

I think I saw him on BBC News earlier claiming that the Irish Government almost collapsed last week when the EU said there would have to be a hard border in the event of no-deal Brexit. I've been following the news and that was the first I'd heard about that!

ARNOLD J RIMMER

downcow wrote: »

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength.
Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

It’s music to the ears of the majority of the UK population as they voted in the MPs. It only weaken the strength of the No Deal Brexiteers.

MrMusician18

lawred2 wrote: »

Just an idiot seeking a cheap laugh.. safe in the knowledge that no matter what it won't backfire on him because of the rabid partisan nature of his consituent voters

Could you imagine some lad in the Dail trying that?

Front page of every paper tomorrow.

Eh yeah, Conor kebabs Lenihan.

Our representatives aren't any better.

prawnsambo

downcow wrote: »

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength.
Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

No deal is gone as a negotiating tool. That's if you ever believed that holding a gun to your head and saying the bullet was likely to go straight through and wing a few bystanders is a negotiating tactic.

At this stage, the preparations have been made on the EU side for no deal. All that was put in train over 18 months ago, the money's been spent and the chess pieces moved. Little things like the EMA moving out of London are just the obvious signs of what's been planned and executed.

So to continue the analogy, all the bystanders have been fitted with flak jackets and helmets and are now watching bemusedly to see if the idiot will still pull the trigger.

VinLieger

downcow wrote: »

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength.
Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

You seem obsessed with painting the UK as the victims in this, the EU have acted in good faith and honestly throughout the entire process, nothing they have ever said or done has been misleading or gone back on after the fact unlike literally everything the UK have said and done

joe40

downcow wrote: »

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength.
Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

How would any sensible person not want to see "no deal" taken off the table.
But "no deal" is still a distinct possibility unless the British government change direction. The road they are going down eventually leads to "no deal" even with a delay.
Mays red lines and the DUP/Brexiteers are making any deal impossible.

prawnsambo

Downcow, I strongly suggest that you watch that video above of Sabine Weand laying it all out in pretty much the kind of clear language that seems to escape Theresa May, despite all her talk to the contrary.

franglan

Listening to LBC and the Nigel Farrage show!!! There was an add for a legal firm specialising in acting on behalf of men going through divorce - their catchphrase is "a partner you can rely on..."

The show as expected is "look at those ignorant Europeans, they'll change their minds while taking our jobs and women..."

Hermy

J Mysterio wrote: »

In the last number of days, Michel Barnier, Sabine Weyand, Guy Verhofstadt, Claude Juncker, i think Selmayr and numerous other officials and PM's from within Europe have all said the Withdrawal Agreement is as negotiated and won't be reopened.

The olive branch is a whisper that renegotiation could only be achieved through the removal of a TM red line e.g. Customs Union as it is the UK red lines which formed the bastard WA.

If May literally goes back to the EU, I expect it to be very embarassing for her, the UK and parliament. It's time to wake up, 59 days to go.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Apparently Juncker emphatically ruled out renegotiation in a phone call with May this afternoon before she spoke in the HoC. All about party unity.

And yet she claims it's still open for discussion?

It's really quite bizarre.

Not being the keenest follower of politics myself, part of me is still convinced that like so many other political debacles before, it'll all be resolved quite unspectacularly in the end. But I'm wrong, aren't I?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength.
Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

Strength to negotiate what exactly?

The UK have already AGREED an agreement with the EU. It just failed to agree that with itself first.

The EU in its various guises over the last 2 days said there would be no more negotiation of the WA.

The EU have been playing GoFish with the UK for the last 2 years, with their cards facing outwards and the UK have still managed to lose.

ilovesmybrick

Hermy wrote: »

And yet she claims it's still open for discussion?

It's really quite bizarre.

Not being the keenest follower of politics myself, part of me is still convinced that like so many other political debacles before, it'll all be resolved quite unspectacularly in the end. But I'm wrong, aren't I?

I think that was pretty much most of our assumptions, but that it would happen several months ago, if not a year ago. However, the problem isn't agreement with the EU, it's agreement within the commons. They have no majority for any agreement, and the EU have already stated (repeatedly) that the exit deal is done from their perspective. Unless there's a dramatic step back by the UK government, or a collapse of government, I don't see anything happening.

ancapailldorcha

downcow wrote: »

So unfortunately it seems there may be a majority in WM to vote to take no deal of the table. This seriously weakens the UK negotiating strength.
Music to the ears of many of you I am sure.

The Withdrawal Agreement has been negotiated. What are you on about?

joe40

Hermy wrote: »

J Mysterio wrote: »

In the last number of days, Michel Barnier, Sabine Weyand, Guy Verhofstadt, Claude Juncker, i think Selmayr and numerous other officials and PM's from within Europe have all said the Withdrawal Agreement is as negotiated and won't be reopened.

The olive branch is a whisper that renegotiation could only be achieved through the removal of a TM red line e.g. Customs Union as it is the UK red lines which formed the bastard WA.

If May literally goes back to the EU, I expect it to be very embarassing for her, the UK and parliament. It's time to wake up, 59 days to go.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Apparently Juncker emphatically ruled out renegotiation in a phone call with May this afternoon before she spoke in the HoC. All about party unity.

And yet she claims it's still open for discussion?

It's really quite bizarre.

Not being the keenest follower of politics myself, part of me is still convinced that like so many other political debacles before, it'll all be resolved quite unspectacularly in the end. But I'm wrong, aren't I?

I'm far from an expert on politics but the difference in this case is that something big and cotrntroversial will definitely happen by the end of March. Whether that is no deal, WA approved, delay to article 50, or a new vote it will be huge and divisive in Britain.
This particular crisis cannot be fudged away. Too many people have extreme positions from which there is no middle ground.
It is a worry for us here.

Dyr

Hermy wrote: »

And yet she claims it's still open for discussion?

It's really quite bizarre.

Not being the keenest follower of politics myself, part of me is still convinced that like so many other political debacles before, it'll all be resolved quite unspectacularly in the end. But I'm wrong, aren't I?

She ll try to bypass them... Again

[Deleted User]

Shelga wrote: »

Sammy Wilson is truly repulsive, as well as thick. With every moronic utterance of his, a united Ireland gets closer.

Can people stop making the huge leap between this mess and a united Ireland.

It's one thing that a majority in NI did not want to leave the EU it's another to suggest that they want a united Ireland.

I'm sure many unionists, DUP and otherwise, voted remain because they are more pragmatic than thier MPs.

That's not to mention those of us in the south that don't want the mess of NI to deal with

Let's get over Brexit, that's painful enough

Hurrache

So whoever is standing beside May was asked what the alternative arrangements they are planning are. He said with the 5 minutes he has left he'll tell us. And he has proceeded to address almost everyone else and has now sat down.

He's been asked again and pressed for answers.

Wait for it. His answer is that they'll be part of the negotiations! The idiots don't have any alternative arrangements!!!!

Edit, lol, seems I'm not the only one unsure as to who he is
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1090321299703033859?s=19

MrMusician18

Hurrache wrote: »

So whoever is standing beside May was asked what the alternative arrangements they are planning are. He said with the 5 minutes he has left he'll tell us. And he has proceeded to address almost everyone else and has now sat down.

He's been asked again and pressed for answers.

Wait for it. His answer is that they'll be part of the negotiations! The idiots don't have any alternative arrangements!!!!

That's the Brexit secretary. Couldn't make this up...

lawred2

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Eh yeah, Conor kebabs Lenihan.

Our representatives aren't any better.

Than Sammy Wilson?

In a discussion regarding the real possibility of food shortages?

Yeah, they are.

Kiith

Nope, no actual plan it seems, and they'll figure it out later. Pretty much sums up their negotiation strategy from the start.

An Ciarraioch

ERG now say they'll vote for the Brady amendment, so bizarrely that, the Grieve amendment and Cooper-Boles could all be passed tonight!

Hurrache

MrMusician18 wrote: »

That's the Brexit secretary. Couldn't make this up...

Seems he's as good at planning as the rest.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1090324012578807809?s=19[URL/]

Zubeneschamali

Hermy wrote: »

It's really quite bizarre.

It is bizarre if you regard it as an effort to agree a Brexit deal with the EU.

But what's really happening is May trying to stay in #10 as long as possible. Brexit is not for 59 days, but in the meantime she moves up a place on the all time list in just 30 days. The WA won't be reopened, but she will milk the pointless trip for a few more days as PM.

blanch152

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]

Can people stop making the huge leap between this mess and a united Ireland.

It's one thing that a majority in NI did not want to leave the EU it's another to suggest that they want a united Ireland.

I'm sure many unionists, DUP and otherwise, voted remain because they are more pragmatic than thier MPs.

That's not to mention those of us in the south that don't want the mess of NI to deal with

Let's get over Brexit, that's painful enough

Mary Lou McDonald has been parading this line for sometime now. It was inevitable that it would be picked up and repeated on social media.

blanch152

lawred2 wrote: »

Than Sammy Wilson?

In a discussion regarding the real possibility of food shortages?

Yeah, they are.

Well, we had Ruth Coppinger nationalising Dell which would have put food shortages in the ha'penny place. Within a year there wouldn't be a single MNC left.

Enzokk

Stephen Barclay was repeatedly asked what the alternative arrangements are that will avoid a border, he avoided the question time and time again.

First vote happening now, Corbyn amendment.

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/fa6b40ec-a334-405d-8dbb-ea7ea1422619

Another link, Youtube Guardian Channel

branie2

What are the alternative arrangements?

An Claidheamh

If anyone was watching the debate on sky news a short while ago.

Can anyone tell me what the Tory said to Sylvia Hermon when she asked what the alternative to the backstop actually was.

I mean he said sometjing about her labour allies in North and South of Ireland waking away from deal?????

lawred2

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, we had Ruth Coppinger nationalising Dell which would have put food shortages in the ha'penny place. Within a year there wouldn't be a single MNC left.

Socialists advocating state ownership

Stop the lights

Irish Politicians making light of food shortages is not remotely comparable

Although Sammy probably thinks the famine was a southern thing

Enzokk

branie2 wrote: »

What are the alternative arrangements?

We don't know because they haven't specified...but it is the magical technology solutions that has not been invented yet.

Corbyn amendment loses, 327 - 296