klaaaz wrote: » Well, will you too be protesting against the HSE as you have better medical knowledge than them on transgender issues?
ceadaoin. wrote: » Human beings as a species have two sexes. Those conditions are extremely rare and represent abnormalities. They are not an indication of more than 2 sexes, just like the fact that a tiny amount of people are born with only one leg is not an indication that humans are not bipedal.
Gravelly wrote: » If I understand your rant correctly, you are comparing the extraordinarily rare genetic condition of chimera with lads putting on a dress and declaring themselves to be women? Believe me, you don't know how ignorant you are.
One eyed Jack wrote: » Is this the line you’re referring to?You may decide to have surgery to permanently alter your sex. You must surely be aware that the above statement is misleading? One cannot alter one’s sex, and no amount of surgery will alter a person’s sex, nor will the hormones they have to take for the rest of their lives to maintain the appearance of their preferred gender. Whoever wrote that misleading nonsense above is not as you claim, in any way representative of the “medical community”.
B0jangles wrote: » Some of you armchair experts on the genetics of gender and sex (and looking things up in online dictionaries!) should do a little research on chimerism and intersexuality before you make such absolute statements about how there are only 2 sexes and how every cell in your body is either male or female. (I'm claiming no such expertise either but at least I know enough to know that I am very ignorant on the subject, which is more than 99% of the people posting in this thread)
klaaaz wrote: » perhaps you also should direct your ire at the medical community who say a person can alter their sex to be a member of the opposite sex. https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/az/g/gender-dysphoria/
ceadaoin. wrote: » Yeah we had this discussion before. I don't care that the hse is publishing non scientific nonsense to appease certain groups . It is not possible to change sex. End of. Every cell in your body is either male or female. Present how you want, take hormones to take on the appearance of the opposite sex, whatever. I absolutely support any persons decision to live how they want and not face discrimination for it. But their chromosomes are not changing and they will never know what it is to be a biological male or female if they aren't one. Also, I never claimed to speak on behalf of women. It is you who is doing that. I merely pointed out that the women you seem to think don't exist,actually do.
Zorya wrote: » Oxford English Dictionary definition of ''sex'' - Either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions; (hence) the members of these categories viewed as a group; the males or females of a particular species, esp. the human race, considered collectively. Occasionally with plural verb. No one can alter their sex to be a member of the opposite sex. No one. People can alter their gender expression as I have said. It is not possible to alter biological sex.
B0jangles wrote: » Irish cis woman here. Not offended. More offended by the usual boards suspects feeling so extremely entitled to speak on behalf of irish women.
B0jangles wrote: » What? No, sorry, no idea who you are or what positions you hold.
klaaaz wrote: » perhaps you also should direct your ire at the medical community who say a person can alter their sex to be a member of the opposite sex.
klaaaz wrote: » Do you speak on behalf of women? Don't think you do, many feminists disagree with you as illustrated, not just them but a huge range of women from civic society. Will you be mounting a protest at how the HSE treat gender dysphoria for trans women? https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/az/g/gender-dysphoria/ Anyone on an international internet forum can claim to be Irish and living here in Ireland, widely open to abuse. Nice try playing the victim card using a handful of boards user's as your backup :rolleyes:, perhaps you also should direct your ire at the medical community who say a person can alter their sex to be a member of the opposite sex. https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/az/g/gender-dysphoria/
Zorya wrote: » If you are by any chance referring to me I have always made it crystal clear that I speak on behalf of myself and do not seek to be affiliated with or speak on behalf of any group, including ''Irish women'' and most certainly not Irish ''cis'' women.
B0jangles wrote: » More offended by the usual boards suspects feeling so extremely entitled to speak on behalf of irish women.
klaaaz wrote: » Do you speak on behalf of women?[/url]
Sittingpretty wrote: » It’s not a radical view that a trans woman is not equivalent to a biological women. It’s offensive to biological women.
ceadaoin. wrote: » Actually I've seen a large thread on mumsnet from Irish women who are uncomfortable with extreme gender ideology and believe it clashes with women's rights. And yes many of them are afraid to speak out publicly. Perhaps if you engage with the people who don't agree with you, and actually listen to their reasoned arguments rather than rush to brand them bigots and shut them down, you might learn something. You claim acknowledging biology is denying that trans women exist and transphobic (it isn't), yet you deny that a lot of people don't subscribe to your ideology, literally you deny that those women exist. Well, they do and there are many of them and growing. Slapping a terf label on them isn't really going to shut them up the way you want it to.
klaaaz wrote: » Mumsnet is not Irish. They are not representative of Ireland's society,
klaaaz wrote: » Again, you're quoting a single person's blog from the UK. This is Ireland which is not the UK. Over a thousand Irish feminists disagree with you, where are the Irish feminists who agree with your radical views?
klaaaz wrote: » There is a big difference between activist groups for feminism who are from a range of sections of society in Ireland meeting up regularly in real life on campaign issues and to sign their names to a letter saying feminists have no problem with trans people than a small bunch of anonymous users on a boards thread spouting opinions based on some unfounded conspiracy.
klaaaz wrote: » No, people in Ireland aren't afraid to speak out. Even Mr Linehan a dissenting voice who resides in the UK spoke out on RTE. We have a range of groups(legal, medical, feminist, children's organisations, unions and our beloved politicians from all persuasions) who have supported the process of legal gender recognition of transgender people.
jam_mac_jam wrote: » Sorry, if I could figure out what your point is I would argue with you. You are saying people aren't afraid to speak out? or that they should be afraid to speak out?
jam_mac_jam wrote: » Right, and there is no reason that people would need to worry about stating their opinion or questioning the thought police? That's all a conspiracy. That's all people's imagination. These opinions do not exist? You can deny people's opinions all you like. This doesn't change the fact they have a right to have them and that they do have them.
klaaaz wrote: » activist groups for feminism who are from a range of sections of society in Ireland
Gravelly wrote: » I did, read the post. In case you can't get it from that (I suspect you can, but are being deliberately obtuse), you are claiming that the views of people on a forum are somehow worthless and "radical" while at the same time, claiming that the view of "1000 feminists" is unquestionably the correct one (and not radical at all :rolleyes: ).
klaaaz wrote: » Elaborate?
Gravelly wrote: » Do you not see the utter hypocrisy of your position, clearly demonstrated above?
klaaaz wrote: » Twitter :rolleyes: Maybe perhaps the majority of Twitter users disagree with people who have radical views? Over 1000 Irish feminists who are part of Irish feminist groups disagree with Zorya's(and others) view. By your logic, about a dozen posters here who support that view only represent .0000004% of the population!
