downcow wrote: » I certainly agree with you analysis of the dup and erg. Your weakness is you cannot see similar qualities across most of the political parties and certainly the remainers who feel they know more that the public. I have tried not to respond to you raising “Anglo Irish Agreement, GFA, Flegs and Marches, not to mention the Irish Language Act”. But you have now done it several times. Everyone of these had diverse opinions, indeed opposing positions depending on where you are looking from - valid reasons on all sides. I can clearly appreciate and respect nationalists position on these but unfortunately it seems you can only see where you are looking from with no ability to put yourself in the others shoes. I am afraid you are applying the same limitations to your consideration of brexit
downcow wrote: » I certainly agree with you analysis of the dup and erg. Your weakness is you cannot see similar qualities across most of the political parties and certainly the remainers who feel they know more that the public.
Johnny Dogs wrote: » You need to step back and reread your post from an outsider perspective. Ireland doesn't want anything to compromise free movement between France and Ireland, therefore we won't seem to leave the EU. Seriously, can you not see how ludicrous that post is?
downcow wrote: » Yes I think so. Many on here think that 27 nations are going to never speak to UK again after brexit. We will have to agree to differ on that one.
FrancieBrady wrote: » I mention the other events because they are essentially the same: notional and abstract blockages to progressing society to normality. The unionist community lost on every single count for that reason - blocking what is best for society because they saw it as a threat to their position in the union. It is the classic behaviour of someone who is insecure to begin with. And nobody can solve that for you.
downcow wrote: » You are missing my point But actually making my point at the same time. The anger you show with any mention of increased checks between you and France should help you understand why unionists get annoyed with any suggestion of increased checks on the Irish Sea. Remember we are not leaving the UK either. Do you get it?
FrancieBrady wrote: » So why fall back on the argument that you are pro Brexit because the UK voted for it. Man up and criticise the people who are really at fault here.
Help me with this. I am genuinely confused. You keep saying there will be no more negotiating. If we leave with no deal because we can’t accept the backstop being potentially permanent, are you seriously saying there will be no further negotiations? Can you simply not stomache the reality that there will be an ever growing plethora of mutually beneficial agreements develop? This is the ludicrous belief that many are stating here almost as a threat to the UK.
downcow wrote: » I am honest unaware of which one we lost on. Maybe you could help me. Compromise and generosity is not loss.
“Where do the terrorists operate from? From the Irish Republic, that’s where they come from. Where do the terrorists return to for sanctuary? To the Irish Republic. “And yet Mrs. Thatcher tells us that that Republic must have some say in our province. We say, never, never, never, never.
downcow wrote: » You just arnt hearing me. I was neutral I don’t believe in referendums but there was a democratic decision to hold it I didn’t vote My people voted out I am a democrat Still neatral in that I don’t think economically in or out is going to make much difference Backstop situation is totally unacceptable so I with the UK and leaving You might not like it but that’s where me and many others are
FrancieBrady wrote: » I don't wish to derail the thread so I will give one example and you can research the rest. Starting positions, compared to where they ended up, here is Ian Paisley's starting position on the AIA: End position was Ian Paisley sitting in government operating an international agreement between Ireland and Great Britain to run northern Ireland.
FrancieBrady wrote: » So why are you blaming Ireland for your feelings being hurt and not 'your people' who have put you in this position?
downcow wrote: » I could take the points apart but it is off topic and I will answer and then I’m not commenting again on it. Ian Paisley (and I am not a supporter) ended up sitting in a British devolved government in norther ireland which ireland had zero power in and enjoyed watching the die hard republican abstentists become ministers in this British Parliament. I suggest if you want enlightened then open another thread or talk to any of the disgruntled republicans That’s me finished on that subject on this thread
downcow wrote: » My feelings are not hurt. I think you are projecting your feelings on to me
briany wrote: » There's a big problem with the debate going on in the UK - the divide is around 50/50, but neither side seem to believe that the other side should have any say in their respective preferred scenarios.
downcow wrote: » I am a democrat I didn’t vote I don’t believe in referendums
downcow wrote: » I was neutral Still neatral in that I don’t think economically in or out is going to make much difference
Enzokk wrote: » Edit: Anyone else seeing posts that disappear after a few minutes?
Silent Running wrote: » Well, not this Irishman. The UK will have to make trade agreements wherever it can and I'm sure there will eventually be a trade agreement between the UK and the EU. But these things take years to negotiate... years where the UK has no agreements with anyone. I'm not sure a pampered people like the English will be too happy after a few months of the pain of Brexit. What then?
downcow wrote: » Help me with this. I am genuinely confused. You keep saying there will be no more negotiating. If we leave with no deal because we can’t accept the backstop being potentially permanent, are you seriously saying there will be no further negotiations? Can you simply not stomache the reality that there will be an ever growing plethora of mutually beneficial agreements develop? This is the ludicrous belief that many are stating here almost as a threat to the UK.
Akrasia wrote: » There are no more negotiations as long as Theresa May and the DUP still maintain their red lines. There is no sign of them changing so the negotiations are over
Bit cynical wrote: » I don't think we have. The UK only agrees to something concerning the WA when the parliament has agreed to it since the UK Notification of Withdrawal Act of 2017: The Prime Minister may not conclude an agreement with the European Union under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, on the terms of the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union, without the approval of both Houses of Parliament.
correct horse battery staple wrote: » On BBC news they keep repeating that UK might have to extend Brexit by few weeks in order to pass legislation The question is why would the EU agree? I suppose it gives Ireland extra time to prepare as then its certain that Brexit wont be cancelled
An Ciarraioch wrote: » To whit, the story is fully fleshed out by Slugger O'Toole (sparing me from having to link to the Sun):https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/01/25/the-dup-seem-poised-to-bail-out-theresa-may-will-the-eu-be-impressed/
trellheim wrote: » You are doing everything possible to troll this forum.
correct horse battery staple wrote: » aside2: Will Irish whiskey makers take advantage of UK leaving and start making Scotch as well (as there is nothing UK can do now that the product is not protected)
CelticRambler wrote: » SNIP. No more snide comments please. Quote: Originally Posted by downcow View Post I am a democrat I didn’t vote I don’t believe in referendums That's a funny kind of democracy ... t.
downcow wrote: » It is quite logicalI am a democrat (i feel it necessary to specify that, as many on here seem to be happy to disregard democracy)I didn't vote - Just emphasising that I was fairly neutral on the issue and was over in France enjoying the Euro champs (the irony :-)I don't believe in referendums - i thought by this stage you would have got this one. We elect politicians to spend their time digesting the facts on issues like brexit at a much deeper level than we have time to and then we expect them to make the decisions and not pass the ones they don't have the balls to make back to the public to have a stab at
