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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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hans aus dtschl

Deleted User wrote: »

Driving down that direction, when there is anything going on, is a fecking nightmare. Walking from the city is far easier.

Footbridge across the river, to the rail line, would be a massive benefit

Yes I fully agree.
I believe the CMATS publishment will show a tram connecting Kent to near PUC which would be a massive help also.
You could us a P&R in Dunkettle, take the train to Kent, and swap to a tram that brings you to PUC. All on one integrated ticket.

Possibly the wrong thread, but forgive me the daydreaming.

hans aus dtschl

Markcheese wrote: »

When you think of it that way, a ferry across from the train station would be very handy...

There's a tram/pedestrian/cycle bridge planned in the long-term I believe.

Shedite27

The Eastern Gateway Bridge would really open up that side of town. From Skew Bridge in Tivoli to the stadium
AtlanticQuarterCorkDocklands1_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-469061

AtlanticQuarterCorkDocklands1_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-469061

who_me

Shedite27 wrote: »

The Eastern Gateway Bridge would really open up that side of town. From Skew Bridge in Tivoli to the stadium

I assume that's a really old proposal though - that's the Howard Holdings Atlantic Quarter development in the background?

Haven't heard much about the bridge since then.

snotboogie

who_me wrote: »

I assume that's a really old proposal though - that's the Howard Holdings Atlantic Quarter development in the background?

Haven't heard much about the bridge since then.

It's been in the news sporadically Eastern Gateway Bridge is key to docklands development over the last few years. I liked those Howard Holding towers

who_me

snotboogie wrote: »

It's been in the news sporadically Eastern Gateway Bridge is key to docklands development over the last few years. I liked those Howard Holding towers

Yeah, definitely. Some great shots of them from the Tivoli side. Pity!

But I reckon it's always more likely the docklands are going to be developed as they are now, growing slowly out from the city centre, rather than a massive 'landmark' development in the mid or East end. The ambitious Marina Commercial Park was probably a bit more likely/practical, but I can't seen anything like that in that location either for years.

hans aus dtschl

snotboogie wrote: »

I liked those Howard Holding towers

It would be nice with the tram running through there too, they could integrate the tram station station and bus plaza for match days, to use the same pedestrian walkways for tram and bus passengers.

Would potentially also make a good location for an out-of-city conference hall like Frankfurt's messe but the time for that discussion has long since passed now I'd say.

snotboogie

who_me wrote: »

Yeah, definitely. Some great shots of them from the Tivoli side. Pity!

But I reckon it's always more likely the docklands are going to be developed as they are now, growing slowly out from the city centre, rather than a massive 'landmark' development in the mid or East end. The ambitious Marina Commercial Park was probably a bit more likely/practical, but I can't seen anything like that in that location either for years.

The site has been bought but there seems to be zero impetus to actually move forward with it. The marquee is back in 2019 so we can effectively rule out anything happening this year.

Captainsatnav

All of the plans / ambitious proposals here...myself and fiance really, really want to move from Dub to Cork in about 2 years when we've a bit more experience under our belts professionally...thing is...I've followed the National Dev Plan, population projections etc closely and Cork looks to at last becoming a viable alternative to Dublin...but will any of this come to fruition really like??

Dublin's miserably traffic choked, expensive and full. Wou;d love an 'urban' lifestyle but not the full fat version here! Would lov to see Cork become a true lifestyle choice for yuppies:)

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Captainsatnav wrote: »

All of the plans / ambitious proposals here...myself and fiance really, really want to move from Dub to Cork in about 2 years when we've a bit more experience under our belts professionally...thing is...I've followed the National Dev Plan, population projections etc closely and Cork looks to at last becoming a viable alternative to Dublin...but will any of this come to fruition really like??

Dublin's miserably traffic choked, expensive and full. Wou;d love an 'urban' lifestyle but not the full fat version here! Would lov to see Cork become a true lifestyle choice for yuppies:)

As would we, believe me.

Cork is a wonderful little city with lots to offer, but the people in charge of different amenities, such as transport, really do need to start copping on. The city will literally come to a standstill if we continue to push everyone to using cars as transport in and around the centre.

snotboogie

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

As would we, believe me.

Cork is a wonderful little city with lots to offer, but the people in charge of different amenities, such as transport, really do need to start copping on. The city will literally come to a standstill if we continue to push everyone to using cars as transport in and around the centre.

Agree with this. It's still very much to be determined if Cork will succeed as a real urban area in the near future. The three major developments under construction now have the potential to transform the city but we will need a complete overhaul of transportation to see things work. There are still massive NIMBY forces in power in particular regarding transport initiatives like the M28 construction and the "Pana ban" but also with accommodation and office space, especially with the Lord Mayor and his comments on student accommodation at the Lough and An Taisce's ridiculous objection to The Prism.

As long as the country can stave off a recession the next few years will be very interesting

Captainsatnav

a poulation of 320-350k in a concentrated area, relying in the main on walking, cycling and trams/trains buses with green spaces on the fringes...think any small German or French city. Your Bordeauxs, Stockholms etc. That's my vision for where I'd love to be. (a place in St.Lukes, Blackrock...:) easy access to trains to Dublin if HQ is there and need to visit once a week for example)

marno21

There really needs to be a push to get the CMATS, and the Docklands LAP/transportation plans published. There is little point in developers etc trying to do much until the actual frameworks for the areas concerned are published. Why these are continuously being delayed needs to be assessed because waffle is no use for the city.

Once integrated land use and transportation plans are published then things can start moving. For example if Centre Park Road is to be widened and raised, how are they supposed to start on the Marquee site without a firm plan for that?

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

There really needs to be a push to get the CMATS, and the Docklands LAP/transportation plans published. There is little point in developers etc trying to do much until the actual frameworks for the areas concerned are published. Why these are continuously being delayed needs to be assessed because waffle is no use for the city.

Once integrated land use and transportation plans are published then things can start moving. For example if Centre Park Road is to be widened and raised, how are they supposed to start on the Marquee site without a firm plan for that?

Judging from the comments earlier this month it'll be late March at the earliest.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Here's an email I received from Shane Ross this morning after I queried why CMATS was being continually delayed.

Useless. Dodged the question completely. Couldn't even give me a month, let alone a date.

cgcsb

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Here's an email I received from Shane Ross this morning after I queried why CMATS was being continually delayed.

Useless. Dodged the question completely. Couldn't even give me a month, let alone a date.

I doubt he knows. Politicians like this who claim they can go to North Korea and broker peace are 'managed' by the senior civil service until the leave office.

leahyl

who_me wrote: »

I assume that's a really old proposal though - that's the Howard Holdings Atlantic Quarter development in the background?

Haven't heard much about the bridge since then.

What happened with the Howard Holdings proposal??

who_me

leahyl wrote: »

What happened with the Howard Holdings proposal??

2008 - property crash meant it wasn't viable, and the global slowdown wiped out the developer.

leahyl

who_me wrote: »

2008 - property crash meant it wasn't viable, and the global slowdown wiped out the developer.

Ah right, pity, looked good. That bridge would be great though.

namloc1980

leahyl wrote: »

Ah right, pity, looked good. That bridge would be great though.

That bridge is a non-runner at the moment. It wasn't included in the new national development plan published last year which goes out to 2027. You're talking the 2030s at least before it might be considered.

snotboogie

https://www.unitymedianetwork.com/today-fm-and-newstalk-opening-of-new-studio-in-corks-republic-of-work/

More good news for the South Mall with Today FM and Newstalk opening a studio in republic of work at 12 south mall.

https://fora.ie/facebook-ballsbridge-office-4451413-Jan2019/

Facebook seem to be including Cork in its expansion talks recently too, as they do in the above article. This will likely be minuscule compared to Dublin but I wonder if they will take more space at the Capitol? Or potentially take space at Penrose Dock?

marno21

Some great tweets from the brilliant @CorkCraneCount:

https://twitter.com/CorkCraneCount/status/1089143051417731075

https://twitter.com/CorkCraneCount/status/1089144517440229376

An alternative angle from Cork Chamber:

https://twitter.com/CorkChamber/status/1088832591334125568

And this Tweet from the Beamish&Crawford/Events Centre site:

https://twitter.com/WonkyAnkle/status/1089173331348201472

snotboogie

Say what you like about BAM but they sure love their tower cranes, is the site so big that a relatively modest office development needs a third crane? Three going in at Horgans Quay before the apartments even start too....

Rhys Essien

snotboogie wrote: »

Say what you like about BAM but they sure love their tower cranes, is the site so big that a relatively modest office development needs a third crane? Three going in at Horgans Quay before the apartments even start too....

It looks positive. That crane is hardly for the apartments and will reach the river so I’d say an announcement coming soon.

namloc1980

Rhys Essien wrote: »

It looks positive. That crane is hardly for the apartments and will reach the river so I’d say an announcement coming soon.

They haven't even submitted the further info requested through the planning process for the event centre. Why would they throw up a crane for a development that's still going through the planning process and it's still months away from a final decision?

snotboogie

Rhys Essien wrote: »

It looks positive. That crane is hardly for the apartments and will reach the river so I’d say an announcement coming soon.

Offices have been under construction on the site for a few months. The crane has to be for them, even if BAM submitted the information for planning tomorrow it’d be another 3 months at best before they’d be allowed to start

Rhys Essien

snotboogie wrote: »

Offices have been under construction on the site for a few months. The crane has to be for them, even if BAM submitted the information for planning tomorrow it’d be another 3 months at best before they’d be allowed to start

I suppose time will tell but I do know that the tower crane that’s already up can reach over the counting house and right over to the Event Centre side.I imagine that they will want to get the apartments done for start of College in September so we will wait and see.

ofcork

Article on sunday paper today re bam and other problems they have had with projects in the uk etc.

Rhys Essien

And the circus goes on.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews//ireland/fears-for-cork-event-centre-as-state-classifies-9m-of-funding-as-loan-900434.html

namloc1980

Rhys Essien wrote: »

And the circus goes on.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews//ireland/fears-for-cork-event-centre-as-state-classifies-9m-of-funding-as-loan-900434.html

Fully expect a lash of student apartments will go up on that site at this stage. They've all taken the people of this city for fools with this farce.