downcow wrote: » Could you tell me why there is a struggle to accept the UK vote as representative but the NI vote doesn’t give you the same concern. Remember NI vote was very close and that was with the Ulster unionist party supporting remain. If there were a rerun their supporters would primarily be leave. Don’t assume NI won’t vote leave.
Leroy42 wrote: » Yet another misleading and apparently anti-Irish re Brexit headline in the Indo. I wonder what the thinking behind this agenda is? He wasn't undercut, Poland have a particular view and Ireland have another. It is very like an Express headline (Farage demolishes Remainers, TM teaches Corbyn a lesson, JRM makes a devastating point to prove remainers wrong) in its wording. Clearly Ireland is under, and will continue to face increasing pressure, over our tax rates
road_high wrote: » Their headlines have been shocking re Brexit of late- very anti government and undermining of the (very logical, fair and pragmatic) position of our govt. Do they want to sabotage things for some petty political motives- certainly not in the national best interest at this critical juncture? This is all way above political squabling
downcow wrote: » So what do you think unionists in NI should do?
downcow wrote: » I would rather stay with our nation of 70million people than dive into the unknown with a nation of 5 million and reliant on Eu which is heading into very difficult times
prawnsambo wrote: » Instead of playing the victim card, perhaps you could actually address the issue raised by the poster. Nobody here has told NI what to do. What they have said to you is that NI voted to remain and for a very good reason. Don't come back to me about the UK vote, because this is about this island and how it will deal with the fallout. So stupid and ill-informed comments from DUP MPs about what this country should do, when this country did not precipitate the crisis is quite likely to raise ire.
Folkstonian wrote: » I don’t agree because there is no status quo. Rescinding the article 50 notice or having a second referendum doesn’t mean that things go back to how they were. Europe seemingly wants to increase the pace of integration. Europe now isn’t the same as it was in 2015 and it isn’t going back. I don’t feel any particular annoyance at that, because it’s not up to Britain or any British person to tell the EU what it should do. But I feel an ever increasing disconnect and a growing sense of unease at the intended pace and ubiquity of integration. Being honest, I don’t ‘feel’ like a European, I don’t feel like much of Europe would see me as European, but I still would like to maintain good relations and a sense of shared values where it is appropriate etc I think that, more and more, people are going to need to be fully on board for this social integration aspect to work. I can’t ever see a time in England when thst will be the case. At least in the EEA we would have a proper safety barrier between Britain and the European Parliament, Macron, Merkel and their plans for Europe etc I really am starting to think it offers the best of both worlds, for Britain and for Europe!
downcow wrote: » I can completely accept that this is about this island for you but for me it is about NI Ireland means the same to me as Spain only it’s a bit closer and a bit colder. Many posters on here are saying the majority in NI want to stay in Eu. There is no evidence for that. Yes a very small majority voted that way in the referendum but it would only require a very small number of the remain voters to believe in the union and be democrats to now be in a position of wanting to accept the UK vote and leave. So you have no basis for suggesting the majority in NI currently want to go against the referendum result
downcow wrote: » The answer is None The majority of our nation voted to leave. We are a democracy. Our region has had massive economical support from our nation (UK). We would be absolutely insane to separate and go with a nation (ireland) which even according th sf has showed little or no interest in our wellbeing over last 100 years. I would rather stay with our nation of 70million people than dive into the unknown with a nation of 5 million and reliant on Eu which is heading into very difficult times Does that help you?
Akrasia wrote: » Ah the old 'I'm offended' strategy. The last refuge of someone peddling ideas that cannot be supported by reason or evidence.
Folkstonian wrote: » At least in the EEA we would have a proper safety barrier between Britain and the European Parliament, Macron, Merkel and their plans for Europe etc
The EEA Agreement guarantees equal rights and obligations within the Internal Market for individuals and economic operators in the EEA. It provides for the inclusion of EU legislation covering the four freedoms — the free movement of goods, services, persons and capital
the EEA Agreement established EEA EFTA bodies to match those on the EU side. The EEA EFTA States take all decisions by concensus as opposed to the EU side where decisions related to EEA legislation are normally taken by majority vote.
Irishmale0399 wrote: » The people of Northern Ireland are part of the UK....the UK as a whole voted to leave the EU regardless of by how much or little. Should the people of Northern Ireland want to stay in the EU why are they not on the streets in a peaceful manner protesting and forcing the DUP and TMs hand??? If they want to leave they could all surrender their Irish passports and stay loyal to what they really want and believe in. Today I had a young man from Banbridge stand in my office (in Germany) asking for a pay rise and a company car. I asked what his status would be after the last day of March (company policy as advised by the company legal department) should a hard Brexit occur. His answer was "The GF agreement means I could apply for an Irish passport. Makes my life easier and means I can get around everything....even when I feel British. You Irish are really making it easy for us lads....just not sure what my mates will think of it all. I am certainly only a plastic Paddy because I couldnt be bothered with the hassle" In my world after 20 years living away....you are Irish or you are not. I could have German citizenship tomorrow....but I am Irish. I could have both passports.....why??? I am Irish, I am married to a German, my kids have both passports but will decide what they want to be when the time is right....I was born in Ireland, grew up there and regard myself as being Irish. I am proud of my culture, the people and the history of my country.
CelticRambler wrote: » You ask: and give as your own answer: Yet again, this answer makes no sense at all. If it's a good thing to stay in a union with three other countries (only one of which could be said to really share any kind of socio-politico-economic common ground with NI) then why is it not a good thing to remain in a union with 27 other countries. If having 70 million "fellow citizens" is better than having 5, why is 70 million also better than 500 million? And if you think that staying with your current arrangement of 5 million immediate EU neighbours is "the unknown" (PS: they're net contributors to the EU, so hardly "reliant" in a financial sense, at least), how can you possibly justify supporting Brexit - which is by definition and by recent experience - a leap into a very uncertain unknown, and universally acknowledged "difficult times"? Those two points alone should be good reasons for unionist politicians to do what they were elected to do: represent the wishes of their country, the majority of which voted to remain in the EU; and if that's not possible, then form an alliance with their Celtic cousins in Scotland to ensure that at least those two countries can be protected from the irrational English self-harm that is a chaotic Brexit.
Irishmale0399 wrote: » So if you feel the people of NI want to leave.....NI and its people have 2 options: 1. Go with TM and the UK....currently meaning Northern Ireland is a UK - EU border. Has to be closed and monitored by customs etc. 2. You leave and remain in the customs union...meaning no border...but a lot of upset people in London. Once you leave the EU you have no rights until an agreement is reached to travel, do business, drive etc. within the EU. That contract is on the table and your government refused to accept it. The EU are under no obligation to sit down with the UK again. Its time for the people of the UK and NI to decide what they really want and to accept the EU is in the driving seat. The UK and NI have nothing that the EU needs or cannot survive without........can the same be said about the UK and NI??? You cant have the cream and the cherries....
downcow wrote: » Many posters on here are saying the majority in NI want to stay in Eu. There is no evidence for that. Yes a very small majority voted that way in the referendum but it would only require a very small number of the remain voters to believe in the union and be democrats to now be in a position of wanting to accept the UK vote and leave. So you have no basis for suggesting the majority in NI currently want to go against the referendum result
downcow wrote: » I think anyone in NI who chooses to invest in an Irish passport can have all the stuff you mention. Although I honestly believe when the dust settles UK nationals will have it all available to
Irishmale0399 wrote: Europe must stick together and show its members that leaving isnt an option.
Hurrache wrote: » And this is the problem. Britain was the EU, and it was heavily favoured when it came to voting weighting.
Irishmale0399 wrote: » If its a hard Brexit (which I think it wont be) I wouldnt be so sure that the EU will sit down straight away and trash things out for the good of the UK. Why should they??? At this moment in time all TM and her friends in London are doing is sticking 2 fingers up at the rest of Europe. Europe must stick together and show its members that leaving isnt an option.
First Up wrote: » Of course its an option but it isn't cost free.
Seth Brundle wrote: » Nobody is struggling with the fact that NI and Scotland chose to remain and England and Wales chose to leave. The difficulty AFAIK arises from trying to comprehend the idiocy of the leave arguments which never stack up. In absolutely no way will any part if the UK be better off under any kind of Brexit. Yet if Boris the liar or anyone else says it will be better then thousands of people believe him. As for your choosing leave because the UK is a democracy, what do you think about NI not having the same laws in terms of gay marriage or abortion? Lastly, your point about going it alone with a nation of 5 million. That is not on the table. It's just in your head. Yes a hard Brexit will make a border poll more likely but that is not the doing of the RoI. Nobody is forcing you to join the Republic. In fact the WA would enforce the special status of NI as part of the UK only with better trading options. Anything else is just paranoia!
Irishmale0399 wrote: » Europe must stick together and show its members that leaving isnt an option.
igCorcaigh wrote: But the lesson has been learned (by some!). And so it seems that the EU is a trap. Once in, you cannot easily leave, and the ultimate destination may not be to your liking.
downcow wrote: » Ill not call any of you politicians liars as we all know what would happen I would like to see gay marriage introduced in NI but it is a devolved matter and the crazy structures that the gfa set up means it can’t happen at this time. Abortion is much more complicated for me but I have a slight leaning to pro choice. But not sure why any of this is relevant. We have this situation because of the gfa which now everyone in Eu except those living in NI think is the greatest thing since sliced bread
RobMc59 wrote: » I believe he has made it quite clear he views himself as a British citizen within the UK and that should be that.It can as he says be difficult for British posters as their opinions can be taken as attempts to wind Irish posters up which is`nt always the case.
