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Child Item

Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

freshpopcorn

Prime Time are airing a special about transgender issues on Tuesday night at 21:35. I believe it mainly involves young people but will also show older people who have transitioned.
Graham Linehan is due to appear on this but a petition has being started to have him removed. There was an article on the matter on an Irish newspaper website but it has being removed.
Where do people stand on this matter?

Personally I can see both sides on the matter when it comes to kids/teenagers transitioning and how it may effect them in the long term since it's such a big change to make but I'm no expert on the matter.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/opposition-to-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-being-on-tv-transgender-debate-skz8mp2rb

https://www.change.org/p/donogh-diamond-rte-to-remove-graham-linehan-piece-from-upcoming-prime-time-show-on-transgender-issues

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Sir Oxman

https://terfisaslur.com/

This is trans activism

Clarity: It's a collection of online and real-life trans activism.
This may tie in with what is going down online and it's influence on kids.
Notice most of the sections contain no discussion but repeating of dogma and the shutting down of anyone, ANYONE who has an opposite view or one that does not perfectly align with theirs.
Immediately, those are branded nazis, the enemy and "terfs"

these are the people piling on to the likes of Graham Linehan

Gravelly

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is it possible that other kids may be different to your three?

Any response to my question?

[Deleted User]

Bambi wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you done much research with four year olds to inform your view?

Is it possible that your direct knowledge of four year olds is not 100% comprehensive?

Perhaps you can pull some research from a respectable gender studies journal to counter his claim?

If you can find one that didn't republish excerpts Mein Kampf with a glowing recommendation

Argument from authority doesn't cut it, and it especially doesn't cut it when the authority is a bunch of clowns.

It's his claim, so if you want supporting research, he's the one you need to talk to.

[Deleted User]

Gravelly wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you done much research with four year olds to inform your view?

Is it possible that your direct knowledge of four year olds is not 100% comprehensive?

Raised three of them to adulthood.

What have you done?

Is it possible that other kids may be different to your three?

valoren

What struck me was the increase in numbers. I believe it was something like 6 cases in 2003 to over 2300 or so last year in the UK according to the Professor whose proposed research was quashed?

Could broadband internet from 2003 and within a few years instant internet access on smart phones which even prepubescent kids had explain the exponential increase? By having instant access to a litany of information during a significant developmental stage of their lives it could clearly have an impact.

Gravelly

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you done much research with four year olds to inform your view?

Is it possible that your direct knowledge of four year olds is not 100% comprehensive?

Raised three of them to adulthood.

What have you done?

Dyr

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you done much research with four year olds to inform your view?

Is it possible that your direct knowledge of four year olds is not 100% comprehensive?

Perhaps you can pull some research from a respectable gender studies journal to counter his claim?

If you can find one that didn't republish excerpts Mein Kampf with a glowing recommendation

Argument from authority doesn't cut it, and it especially doesn't cut it when the authority is a bunch of clowns.

SoupMonster

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Those numbers are fairly suspect, but on the general issue, do you think that maybe you should listen to medical and psychological experts on how to deal with people as individuals, so nobody has to get sacrificed for anybody.

The population is question here is pre-puberty kids who insistently, consistently and persistently identity as other that their sex, "are trans".

If they are not continuously affirmed, socially transitioned and placed on puberty blockers, 60% to 90% will cease "being trans" and will identify with their natal sex once they go through puberty. The majority of these teens will be homosexual.

If they are continuously affirmed, socially transitioned, and placed on puberty blockers (to buy time in order to make a more mature decision, supposedly), in excess of 90% will go on to cross-sex hormones, and suffer/enjoy the associated physiological and neurological affects of both the blockers (lupron usually) and x-sex hormones.

These numbers are not "suspect", they are the result of meta analysis of all reputable longitudinal studies on this population.

[Deleted User]

Gravelly wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You might want to try listening to some people who've actually been through this

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/ireland-s-transgender-children-1.2171777

Anyone claiming they "knew they were in the wrong gender" at 4 or 5 is either lying or suffering from false memory. Four year olds simply don't think like that.

Have you done much research with four year olds to inform your view?

Is it possible that your direct knowledge of four year olds is not 100% comprehensive?

Uncharted

Gravelly wrote: »

Anyone claiming they "knew they were in the wrong gender" at 4 or 5 is either lying or suffering from false memory. Four year olds simply don't think like that.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Parental "imput" and outsider "suggestions" more like.

If the parents are new age and woke,and especially "gender fluid" leaning, guess what........wow, hey presto,here results a gender fluid non binary kid.

Shock horror!!!! :rolleyes:

Kids are just kids. Totally malleable and influenced by all around them. And 99.9% are certainly not aware of their own sexual identity at 4 or 5.

klaaaz

Gravelly wrote: »

Anyone claiming they "knew they were in the wrong gender" at 4 or 5 is either lying or suffering from false memory. Four year olds simply don't think like that.

A tiny tiny minority do, its well known that people who pursue transition knew from a very young age something was amiss with their gender. That's different from the vast majority of other kids who play dress up and want to be "something else" at that age like their cartoon heroes and then turn out to be perfectly fine with their gender later in life.

mazcon

seamus wrote: »

I'm not sure how pointing out one example of state over-reach is supposed to justify another?

There is no justifiable basis for a doctor to refuse to sterilise an adult woman on request.

I would agree that in the case of adult women being refused sterilisation we see state over reach. However, in the case of prepubescent children who can have no concept of the importance fertility or sexual function might have in their lives surely the principle of "first do no harm" must come into play. Puberty resolves dysphoria in the majority of cases, it is also vital for cognitive and social maturation. Stopping it is not a benign act and if the child then goes on to cross sex hormones they miss out entirely on this vitally important development stage. From a purely practical perspective, for a MtF transitioner this will also mean there isn't enough penile tissue to create a neo vagina so the procedure is much more complicated. If there is the slightest chance the child might desist it would appear a watchful waiting approach is preferable.

seamus

mazcon wrote: »

Women in their twenties and thirties are routinely refused sterilisation because they're too young and might change their minds but we are to accept that children as young as twelve can make decisions about their future fertility and sexual function?

I'm not sure how pointing out one example of state over-reach is supposed to justify another?

There is no justifiable basis for a doctor to refuse to sterilise an adult woman on request.

Gravelly

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You might want to try listening to some people who've actually been through this

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/ireland-s-transgender-children-1.2171777

Anyone claiming they "knew they were in the wrong gender" at 4 or 5 is either lying or suffering from false memory. Four year olds simply don't think like that.

[Deleted User]

mazcon wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And 'nip it in the bud', you mean 'force them to live through their difficult teenage years as the gender that they've known is wrong for them since they were 4 or 5?

Is it any wonder that they have mental health issues when you're response is to pretend there is no problem?

With an estimated 80% of these children resolving their dysphoria by going through puberty how on earth can you safely diagnose which ones will persist and which desist? Should the 80% be sacrificed for the 20%?

Those numbers are fairly suspect, but on the general issue, do you think that maybe you should listen to medical and psychological experts on how to deal with people as individuals, so nobody has to get sacrificed for anybody.

[Deleted User]

Gravelly wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

the gender that they've known is wrong for them since they were 4 or 5?

A 4 or 5 year old doesn't know anything about gender, and couldn't tell you if they're wearing the wrong size shoes.

You might want to try listening to some people who've actually been through this

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/ireland-s-transgender-children-1.2171777

mazcon

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And 'nip it in the bud', you mean 'force them to live through their difficult teenage years as the gender that they've known is wrong for them since they were 4 or 5?

Is it any wonder that they have mental health issues when you're response is to pretend there is no problem?

With an estimated 80% of these children resolving their dysphoria by going through puberty how on earth can you safely diagnose which ones will persist and which desist? Should the 80% be sacrificed for the 20%?

Gravelly

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

the gender that they've known is wrong for them since they were 4 or 5?

A 4 or 5 year old doesn't know anything about gender, and couldn't tell you if they're wearing the wrong size shoes.

SoupMonster

sabat wrote: »

One word. Lobotomy.

Bulimia
https://www.thecut.com/article/how-bulimia-became-a-medical-diagnosis.html

Multiple Personality Disorder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRBZ0Kjisl4

[Deleted User]

NIMAN wrote: »

It's a very serious issue and it has to be nipped in the bud now. We can't let 12 yr old children make decisions that might often ruin their lives as adults.

And 'nip it in the bud', you mean 'force them to live through their difficult teenage years as the gender that they've known is wrong for them since they were 4 or 5?

Is it any wonder that they have mental health issues when you're response is to pretend there is no problem?

mazcon

Women in their twenties and thirties are routinely refused sterilisation because they're too young and might change their minds but we are to accept that children as young as twelve can make decisions about their future fertility and sexual function?

Gravelly

seamus wrote: »

And if they still choose to do it, then why prevent them? What is people's obsession with thinking they have the right to make personal choices for others?

So we should allow people with anorexia to starve themselves? No intervention for drug addicts or problem gamblers?

What about people with body integrity dysphoria - should we enable them to amputate limbs?

ohnonotgmail

seamus wrote: »

What does it matter to you? What business is it of yours?

What makes you think you have the right or authority to make this decision for someone else?

They make the decision, they get assessed by qualified professionals so that we as a society know we are doing our best to ensure that it's an honest and informed choice, and not something rash that will be an issue later on.

And if they still choose to do it, then why prevent them? What is people's obsession with thinking they have the right to make personal choices for others?

It's the IDontLikeTheLookOfThat school of thinking.

seamus

Calhoun wrote: »

Even with the psychiatrist evaluation though I am not in favor of kids going using hormone blockers or going through surgery.

What does it matter to you? What business is it of yours?

What makes you think you have the right or authority to make this decision for someone else?

They make the decision, they get assessed by qualified professionals so that we as a society know we are doing our best to ensure that it's an honest and informed choice, and not something rash that will be an issue later on.

And if they still choose to do it, then why prevent them? What is people's obsession with thinking they have the right to make personal choices for others?

ohnonotgmail

sabat wrote: »

Two insults instead of an actual response? That means I'm right. Thanks.

No it just means you haven't said anything worth responding to.

sabat

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I think you've watched One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest one too many times.

Two insults instead of an actual response? That means I'm right. Thanks.

[Deleted User]

TCM wrote: »

Not going to bother reading previous posts. What I will say is that we live in a democracy and he is entitled to express his opinion even if others disagree with his views.

He was still going to be able to express his opinion, regardless of whether he was on Prime Time or not.

ohnonotgmail

sabat wrote: »

Not really a good response when I so easily invalidated your belief that psychiatrists should be blindly deferred to when they start performing experimental life-altering surgery.

I think you've watched One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest one too many times.

sabat

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I definitely recommend you have one.

Not really a good response when I so easily invalidated your belief that psychiatrists should be blindly deferred to when they start performing experimental life-altering surgery.

ohnonotgmail

sabat wrote: »

One word. Lobotomy.

I definitely recommend you have one.