downcow wrote: » To be really honest. here is my thoughts - uncensored There is history which I think no of us can avoid. Some may pretend they are above it but I think it infects us deep in our thinking. and i could be wrong but my guess is that thats not just a northern problem but across the island - so much difficult history and we are all products of it. So i don't want to rejoin ireland any more that many of you want roi to rejoin the 'kingdom'. So i suppose that is me admitting it is not all economic for me. That said, I believe that the UK and EU and indeed UK & ROI are interdependant and stronger working together. I believe we are leaving the EU but I also believe that all parties mention firmly understand we will be better of working together and being supportive of each other. I understand the EU need to play hard ball so as no one else considers leaving I understand ROI need to play hard ball and use the border issue to their advantage to keep economic connections with UK I understand NI needs to keep good solid economic connections with ROI (and more eg friends, culture, etc) I understand UK needs to play hard ball and not just roll over to EU & ROI That said I believe common sense will prevail at or after the 11th hour. The backstop will be watered down (or fudged) and we will all move on and build improving relationships in the years ahead. I don'r expect either poverty or the jackpot for UK or EU for that matter. I do also think ROI are in the shakiest position but trust that EU & UK will play ball and make it work in the end. Probably setting myself up for a hammering but sure so be it
downcow wrote: » You just don't get it that i am not Irish and would never ever describe myself as such. I am British and Norther Irish. I also fully recognise that some of my neighbours are Irish and Northern Irish or maybe all three or maybe none. You need to get out of the mindset that everyone in NI is Irish
downcow wrote: » 5) i believe most people, brexiteers included, would accept some sensible additional checks at the Irish Sea - but we need to see some compromise of sharing some checking maybe at NI border and even some at ROI France border. Current ROI position reeks of arrogace and is winding people up
downcow wrote: » GB is not a country anf there is no international border between NI and GB.
prawnsambo wrote: » There's only a transitional period if there's a withdrawal agreement.
Hurrache wrote: » The internet is losing its **** over the fact that the EU commission has finally publicly said that in the event of a no deal there will be a hard border. What's scary is that people are only realising this now. Just wait for the avalanche of people and sectors of the media attacking the Irish government, specifically Varadkar, over this.
A Dub in Glasgo wrote: » I am in Britain 25 years and not once have I heard anyone refer to someone from NI as British or Northern Irish... they are simply Irish. You may not have an Irish passport but the people of Britain will call you Irish
Adamcp898 wrote: » I thought that would be self explanatory at this stage. Perhaps a better question to ask would be why would a person from Northern Ireland "feel" more British than Irish. But in another thread. Rather than everyone queuing up to make the same point Re: "This is what nationality people on the Island of Great Britain think you are." Not least while simultaneously lamenting how little people from Great Britain know about that aforementioned part of the United Kingdom.
Adamcp898 wrote: » There's a transitional period yet to come folks, although I don't believe it's a full 24 months. Also, I thought the Republican-Unionist ****ehawking was meant to stop?
CelticRambler wrote: » Your country voted to Remain, by a significant majority. Unfortunately for you (and Scotland), the more populous and europhobic England voted to Leave and is dragging the rest of you with it. And therein lies the answer to your "how is it OK..." question: the Irish Sea border does not put a line through the middle of any country, and that's why it's the best solution to a bad situation. Despite the oft-repeated slogan, NI is not British. It's one country in a political union of four countries and has the unique status in that union of being singled out in the title to emphasise how it is not part of Great Britain. Northern Ireland is not a region like the Lake District or Devon and Cornwall, it is a country in its own right, with its own parliament (.... :rolleyes:). So your abortion analogy now becomes: "how can Ireland refuse to allow abortion when the other 27EU states permit it?" Easy - as it did until the situation was changed in the recent referendum. Alternatively, you could ask: "how can one of the constituent countries of the UK not allow abortion or gay marriage when the other three do?" Answering that question opens up the possibility of applying different rules to the people and businesses of Northern Ireland in the Brexit negotiations, which - funnily enough - leads to the win-win of respecting the will of the people in NI and the maintaining the benefits of the GFA.
prawnsambo wrote: » Apologies. Although I'm coming to realise that it's something that can't be taken for granted as being understood at all levels. Was it Andrea Leadsom who said that there would be a transition period with a no-deal exit?
FreudianSlippers wrote: » I can't listen to all these MPs saying that they need to pass a bill to ensure that there is not a no-deal Brexit, when the only way to avoid this is to agree a deal. What a monumental waste of time to table these motions and debate them! Labour is looking for MPs to vote freely on all options, including customs union and another referendum... but their bills are so non-committal that it just results in more debate in HoC over these questions. It's clear they haven't a notion what they're doing... I'm starting to wonder if we should extend for a month or two to allow them to have a GE.
Tell me how wrote: » If they have a GE, they will effectively look to restart the process by blaming May for everything that has happened up to now. They will revoke Article 50 and implement it once again which is something I don't think the EU can prevent (am I incorrect here??) even though it will pi** them off to the nth degree.Can the EU can refuse to accept the revocation of A50 and tell them ye are going on the 29th of March with no deal?
FreudianSlippers wrote: » I can't listen to all these MPs saying that they need to pass a bill to ensure that there is not a no-deal Brexit, when the only way to avoid this is to agree a deal. What a monumental waste of time to table these motions and debate them!
ironingbored wrote: » ECJ opinion said that UK could unilaterally revoke art. 50
Tell me how wrote: » If they have a GE, they will effectively look to restart the process by blaming May for everything that has happened up to now.
They will revoke Article 50 and implement it once again which is something I don't think the EU can prevent (am I incorrect here??) even though it will pi** them off to the nth degree. Can the EU can refuse to accept the revocation of A50 and tell them ye are going on the 29th of March with no deal?
demfad wrote: » If you can pass a Bill which seeks to extend A50 should no agreement occur then you can pass a bill seeking to revoke A50 should no agreement occur. Two ways to avoid no-deal: Deal or revoke.
Tell me how wrote: » should Corbyn get in, revoke it, implement it a day later, is the clock set on 2 more years?
Tell me how wrote: » If they have a GE, they will effectively look to restart the process by blaming May for everything that has happened up to now. They will revoke Article 50 and implement it once again which is something I don't think the EU can prevent (am I incorrect here??) even though it will pi** them off to the nth degree. Can the EU can refuse to accept the revocation of A50 and tell them ye are going on the 29th of March with no deal?
FreudianSlippers wrote: » Up until today, I was definitely of the opinion that we should only extend for a referendum. Problem is that such a hard line will almost certainly result in no-deal Brexit at this stage. I don't see the UK has much choice other than GE if they won't hold a second referendum; however, I certainly wouldn't agree to further extension... a new government would need to be told that this is the deal. Technically they can, but I think this would seriously backfire on the UK.
Tell me how wrote: » That's true. Forgot their ruling from December. So, should Corbyn get in, revoke it, implement it a day later, is the clock set on 2 more years?
Akrasia wrote: » The only way to avoid this is not to 'agree a deal' if the reason they haven't agreed a deal yet is that the only deal that is on offer is not supported by anyone The best way to avoid a crash out scenario, is to turn the default from crashing out of the EU, to remaining in the EU. This can be done by a Private members bill that says 'If there is no withdrawal agreement passed by 28th of March 2019, A50 will be automatically withdrawn on 29th of March" And in order to be acceptable to the EU, this would need to be withdrawn in good faith, so it can't be simply re-submitted on a whim a few weeks later, A50 and can only be re-submitted following another vote by parliament, or preferably, via another referendum. The brexiteers can whinge all they like, but they've had 3 years to figure out how to leave the EU without destroying the economy and they haven't got within an asses roar of negotiating a satisfactory deal with the EU, so they should 'walk away' from the negotiations by cancelling brexit.
Hurrache wrote: » It's not that far fetched as the Polish statement came out just shortly after a Tory MP tweeted that they had called upon their Polish friends in support for movement on the backstop.
