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Child Item

Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

freshpopcorn

Prime Time are airing a special about transgender issues on Tuesday night at 21:35. I believe it mainly involves young people but will also show older people who have transitioned.
Graham Linehan is due to appear on this but a petition has being started to have him removed. There was an article on the matter on an Irish newspaper website but it has being removed.
Where do people stand on this matter?

Personally I can see both sides on the matter when it comes to kids/teenagers transitioning and how it may effect them in the long term since it's such a big change to make but I'm no expert on the matter.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/opposition-to-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-being-on-tv-transgender-debate-skz8mp2rb

https://www.change.org/p/donogh-diamond-rte-to-remove-graham-linehan-piece-from-upcoming-prime-time-show-on-transgender-issues

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Dyr

klaaaz wrote: »

No wonder their mental health suffers, would you like to experience all of that? Don't think you would, it takes a very brave person to go through that experience.

Chicken and egg scenario there I suspect

Calhoun

Dante7 wrote: »

Yeah, I do think it is a big issue. In similar jurisdictions we have already seen:
Self id trans bringing lawsuits against beauty parlours for not waxing his balls
Self Id trans sexually assaulting a woman with his penis in a female only institution.
Children given hormone blocking therapy and surgery against medical advice.
Self id trans competing and winning in women's sports.

There are a lot of serious issues to be discussed here. Just because it is the latest cause celebre for the right on crew doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

For those saying that Graham Linehan is not qualified to speak on this issue, I reckon he knows more about this subject than most people. It is a bit of a crusade with him and he has researched the subject thoroughly. I don't recall there being any objection to the numerous celebrities and left leaning media people being wheeled out to give their wholly inexpert views on abortion or homosexuality.

Don't forget the laws in Ontario where not accepting your children as trans is liable as child abuse and they could be removed .

[Deleted User]

Dante7 wrote: »

Yeah, I do think it is a big issue. In similar jurisdictions we have already seen:
Self id trans bringing lawsuits against beauty parlours for not waxing his balls
Self Id trans sexually assaulting a woman with his penis in a female only institution.
Children given hormone blocking therapy and surgery against medical advice.
Self id trans competing and winning in women's sports.

There are a lot of serious issues to be discussed here. Just because it is the latest cause celebre for the right on crew doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

I'm just not sure about the logic of picking up very rare, very extreme incidents in other countries and deciding that these are 'serious issues to be discussed' here. We've also had a plumber assaulting a child in Texas - is that a serious issue that needs to be discussed here too?

Dante7 wrote: »

For those saying that Graham Linehan is not qualified to speak on this issue, I reckon he knows more about this subject than most people. It is a bit of a crusade with him and he has researched the subject thoroughly. I don't recall there being any objection to the numerous celebrities and left leaning media people being wheeled out to give their wholly inexpert views on abortion or homosexuality.

What celebrities/left leaning media people where wheeled out on Prime Time specifically to give their wholly inexpert views?

Gimme A Pound

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I used to like Irish Simpsons Fans Facebook group until they deleted this, because it was offensive and they hate Linehan anyway.

I used to love that group so much but it became downright nasty. You could post the most odious pro IRA meme poking fun at people being killed, or glorify Soviet communism, but if it's something that THEY find offensive (and much milder) then deletion time. They're so brainwashed it's a cliche.

[Deleted User]

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Prime Time are airing a special about transgender issues on Tuesday night at 21:35. I believe it mainly involves young people but will also show older people who have transitioned.
Graham Linehan is due to appear on this but a petition has being started to have him removed. There was an article on the matter on an Irish newspaper website but it has being removed.
Where do people stand on this matter?

Personally I can see both sides on the matter when it comes to kids/teenagers transitioning and how it may effect them in the long term since it's such a big change to make but I'm no expert on the matter.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/opposition-to-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-being-on-tv-transgender-debate-skz8mp2rb

https://www.change.org/p/donogh-diamond-rte-to-remove-graham-linehan-piece-from-upcoming-prime-time-show-on-transgender-issues

Oh Well thats a mature way of winning an argument, just quash any opposition to it. :rolleyes:
Don't engage in any debate whatsoever..... I mean what exactly are they afraid of??? That he might make a few points that make the opposition have a rethink???? His ideas are perceived as stupid/knuckledragging, etc then at the very least have the courage to debate and debunk them... Trying to oppress his ideas no matter how flawed they are is just petty on so many levels

Yes, remind me exactly who are the fascists again???

donkeykong5

Is Graham linehan on rte Tuesday night. ?

Franz Von Peppercorn

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

As for the self ID laws, yes, you're right, they are very new, and that doesn't mean there won't be any issues in the future. And yes, there have been issues elsewhere - different issues in different cultures in different legal systems, so the applicability of those issues to Ireland is questionable. The scope and extent of issues is highly dubious too, given the numbers involved in Ireland.

So is this really a big issue? Or is it people who are using a tiny number of international incidents to scaremonger or justify their own personal discomfort?

I’ll cede one thing. The laws haven’t caused much issue here yet but we don’t seem to have the level of trans activism that the US or U.K. has.

It’s relatively easy to predict the outcome of cases though. Unless self id is unconstitutional then a trans woman is a legal woman. Ergo any discrimination against that legal woman in favour of a biological woman would be unlawful. This could include sports and existing most women spaces.

I can’t see any way around this unless justices overrule the law on some ground but that itself would be condemned as discriminatory, and I don’t think it will happen.

This isn’t quite the same as guessing lottery tickets.

ligerdub

batgoat wrote: »

Except you have failed to provide any proof that the treatments cause suicidal ideation... Mental health issues are generally higher in the LGBTQ community but it's generally because of how ****ty society can be and not providing the right supports.

Where is the evidence of this?

I don't mean of the prevalence of mental health problems in that community, or any of the letters apart from the T part. Where is the evidence that trans people have a higher rate of mental health problems because of external factors?

Ideally from an independent, unbiased source.

If you're stating opinion that's fair enough, but let's not state something for the purpose of convenience.

It's entirely possible that with all the supports in the world the suicide rates would still be very high for these people. How about suicide rates in the most liberal place on the planet, where pretty much nobody bats an eyelid at any of the LGBT letters? California for example. I'd be surprised if suicide rates there for trans folk relative to the general population were significantly different to the same ratio when compared to less liberal locations.

What if transgender people have a higher propensity towards this and other mental health problems? All the well wishing, acceptance, and support in the world won't fix that unfortunately. It's entirely understandable that this would be the case. After all, we're talking about people born with physiological patterns of one sex, but who have conflict about what sex they feel they are (not all examples fall into this bracket but a lot will) i.e. something in the brain. So somebody could have male sexual organs but a female brain, that is essentially the narrative we are told supports the validity of transgenderism. Even if we assume this to be true, is it such a big leap to suggest that this same brain is more likely to contribute to psychological problems for those people?

People are pitching themselves as allies to this movement before they fully understand the implications, and it is potentially a very dangerous thing for a lot of children out there, enabled by their parents.

Dante7

What z/he said. But it is becoming increasingly difficult to discuss or investigate this without being branded a transpbobe or bigot or alt-right.

The only way it would be less likely to get funding from a major university to study this would be if you got James Watson to sponsor the application.

[Deleted User]

Dante7 wrote: »

What z/he said. But it is becoming increasingly difficult to discuss or investigate this without being branded a transpbobe or bigot or alt-right.

The only way it would be less likely to get funding from a major university to study this would be if you got James Watson to sponsor the application.

Has anyone branded you as a transphobe or bigot on this thread?

branie2

I think his scenes were filmed already

donkeykong5

branie2 wrote: »

I think his scenes were filmed already

Just seen advert on rte. It's on tomorrow at 9.35pm rte1.

Dante7

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Has anyone branded you as a transphobe or bigot on this thread?

This thread is not about me so it is unlikely that my few posts would have attracted the attention of the pronoun mob. But if I were to post the same thoughts on twitter using my real name, they would descend like the bots in the matrix.

charlotte.york

Bambi wrote: »

Chicken and egg scenario there I suspect

It isnt really though

[Deleted User]

Dante7 wrote: »

This thread is not about me so it is unlikely that my few posts would have attracted the attention of the pronoun mob. But if I were to post the same thoughts on twitter using my real name, they would descend like the bots in the matrix.

Yeah, there are all kinds of bots on Twitter all right - covering all kinds of extreme opinions, both extreme right and extreme left

c.p.w.g.w

His a bit of a twat, but all he did was highlight what this person did before they reassigned their gender. To warn people.

But the issue of transitioning for kids its something I feel very uncomfortable with. They can't legally consent. There is cases were gender dysporphia can be resolved without surgery. But if they still want to transition when they are adults, go ahead do what every you want.

Body integrity dysphoria is another condition, where people are repulsed by certain parts of there body, like their arms, but we don't go amputating their arms. So why is gender different.

I'm probably going to be called transphobic now, yet I couldn't give a toss if you transition as long as its a fully informed adult who consents

charlotte.york

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

His a bit of a twat, but all he did was highlight what this person did before they reassigned their gender. To warn people.

But the issue of transitioning for kids its something I feel very uncomfortable with. They can't legally consent. There is cases were gender dysporphia can be resolved without surgery. But if they still want to transition when they are adults, go ahead do what every you want.

Body integrity dysphoria is another condition, where people are repulsed by certain parts of there body, like their arms, but we don't go amputating their arms. So why is gender different.

I'm probably going to be called transphobic now, yet I couldn't give a toss if you transition as long as its a fully informed adult who consents

I am a doctor and one of the concerns we face is that with puberty blockers the penis wont fully develop. This can mean it is too small for it be transformed into a neo vagina later on. So it is not a trivial issue and I feel a lot of the armchair experts here are over stretching tbf.

c.p.w.g.w

charlotte.york wrote: »

I am a doctor and one of the concerns we face is that with puberty blockers the penis wont fully develop. This can mean it is too small for it be transformed into a neo vagina later on. So it is not a trivial issue and I feel a lot of the armchair experts here are over stretching tbf.

Another issue is, they are children who have brains that are still developing. And we are allowing them to undergo irreversible surgery/hormone treatments.

I think Ruby rose(Ozzie model), wanted to be a boy when she was going up. Now as an adult she is happy with being s woman, and of having children someday. If she was going up today, she probably would have been allowed to transition. That is concerning

[Deleted User]

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

His a bit of a twat, but all he did was highlight what this person did before they reassigned their gender. To warn people.

Do we need "to warn people" about every possible source of sexual abuse, including the much more common sources within families, or do we just focus on this one particularly obscure and unusual case? Do we need "to warn people" about plumbers, given the recent case of sexual abuse by a plumber in Texas?

I see a protest is planned for RTE tonight

[url] https://m.facebook.com/events/2185190638364282?acontext={"ref":"3","action_history":"null"}&aref=3&refid=7&_ft_=qid.6649243261432575703:mf_story_key.5231717122893126132:top_level_post_id.977784542426829:content_owner_id_new.156388977899727:call_to_action_type.EVENT_RSVP:page_id.156388977899727:src.22:story_location.5:story_attachment_style.event:page_insights.{"156388977899727":{"role":1,"page_id":156388977899727,"post_context":{"story_fbid":977784542426829,"publish_time":1548146610,"story_name":"EntStatusCreationStory","object_fbtype":266},"actor_id":156388977899727,"psn":"EntStatusCreationStory","sl":5,"dm":{"isShare":1,"originalPostOwnerID":0},"targets":[{"page_id":156388977899727,"actor_id":156388977899727,"role":1,"post_id":977784542426829,"share_id":0}]}}&__tn__=HH-R[/url]

Gravelly

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do we need "to warn people" about every possible source of sexual abuse, including the much more common sources within families, or do we just focus on this one particularly obscure and unusual case? Do we need "to warn people" about plumbers, given the recent case of sexual abuse by a plumber in Texas?

Is the Texas plumbers union calling for male plumbers to be allowed to use girls changing rooms and bathrooms while pretending to be female?

[Deleted User]

charlotte.york wrote: »

I am a doctor and one of the concerns we face is that with puberty blockers the penis wont fully develop. This can mean it is too small for it be transformed into a neo vagina later on. So it is not a trivial issue and I feel a lot of the armchair experts here are over stretching tbf.

Is there any good research on this?

Given that it is doctors who are prescribing the blockers in the first place, isn't this something that the profession should be sorting out within the professional bodies and regulators?

[Deleted User]

Gravelly wrote: »

Is the Texas plumbers union calling for male plumbers to be allowed to use girls changing rooms and bathrooms while pretending to be female?

No, not at all - but that didn't prevent the abuse taking place. And it won't prevent future cases of abuse by plumbers taking place.

So we need warning about plumbers now, presumably?

Gravelly

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, not at all - but that didn't prevent the abuse taking place. And it won't prevent future cases of abuse by plumbers taking place.

So we need warning about plumbers now, presumably?

Again, are plumbers or their representatives calling for plumbers to be allowed unfettered access to girls and women, while disguising who they are?
If not, your comparison is meaningless.

[Deleted User]

Gravelly wrote: »

Again, are plumbers or their representatives calling for plumbers to be allowed unfettered access to girls and women, while disguising who they are?
If not, your comparison is meaningless.

Yes, they are in your houses with unfettered access to your wives and your daughters right now, under the pretext of 'fixing the boiler' - just like the lad in Texas. Surely we need to have a serious conversation about plumbers then?

That's how it works, right? One obscure, unusual case anywhere in the world justifies hysteria and warnings, right?

Gravelly

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yes, they are in your houses with unfettered access to your wives and your daughters right now, under the pretext of 'fixing the boiler' - just like the lad in Texas. Surely we need to have a serious conversation about plumbers then?

That's how it works, right? One obscure, unusual case anywhere in the world justifies hysteria and warnings, right?

I'll try a third time, since you don't seem to be getting this:

Are plumbers, or their representatives attempting to make it illegal to confront a plumber who disguises himself as a woman and walks into the bathroom with a young girl?

If not (and we both know they aren't) then the comparison is ridiculous.

facehugger99

charlotte.york wrote: »

I am a doctor and one of the concerns we face is that with puberty blockers the penis wont fully develop. This can mean it is too small for it be transformed into a neo vagina later on. So it is not a trivial issue and I feel a lot of the armchair experts here are over stretching tbf.

[Deleted User]

Gravelly wrote: »

I'll try a third time, since you don't seem to be getting this:

Are plumbers, or their representatives attempting to make it illegal to confront a plumber who disguises himself as a woman and walks into the bathroom with a young girl?

If not (and we both know they aren't) then the comparison is ridiculous.

I'm getting it clearly tbf. It is very clear how desperate you are to focus on the 'disguise' issue, though this clearly is a tiny factor. The vast majority of sexual assaults have nothing to do with disguises. If your priority is really to protect women, why are you obsessively focused on this non-issue and ignoring the huge danger to our womenfolk from plumbers?

tritium

Haha read his piece in the IT this morning. What a tool bag. Apparently it’s the misogynists fault, they’re the ones advocating for liberal laws for transgender that allow teens to be transitioned more easily.

He’s so far up his own arse that he’s managed to take a viewpoint of the extreme liberal left and attribute it to the extreme right. It’s all the patriarchy luvvie! And the IT is so immersed in their own identity politics that they’ve actually printed this ****e.

I confess I’m not particularly comfortable with teenagers being ‘just accepted’ in choices like this while they’re still very changeable and don’t fully understand just how life changing it could be. That would be true for any decision not just this - one role of adults is to help guide teenagers through those years and “whatever you want or feel like” doesn’t seem to fulfill this.

That said, seeing Linehan savaged by his own mob doesn’t exactly fill me with sorrow when you see the crap he spouts.

[Deleted User]

tritium wrote: »

I confess I’m not particularly comfortable with teenagers being ‘just accepted’ in choices like this while they’re still very changeable and don’t fully understand just how life changing it could be. That would be true for any decision not just this - one role of adults is to help guide teenagers through those years and “whatever you want or feel like” doesn’t seem to fulfill this.

And same for the whole gay thing, presumably? Let's make sure that teenagers don't feel accepted or anything?

Gravelly

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm getting it clearly tbf. It is very clear how desperate you are to focus on the 'disguise' issue, though this clearly is a tiny factor. The vast majority of sexual assaults have nothing to do with disguises. If your priority is really to protect women, why are you obsessively focused on this non-issue and ignoring the huge danger to our womenfolk from plumbers?

I didn't make the plumber comparison, you did - don't try to turn this on me just because that comparison has been shown up to be silly.