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Child Item

Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

freshpopcorn

Prime Time are airing a special about transgender issues on Tuesday night at 21:35. I believe it mainly involves young people but will also show older people who have transitioned.
Graham Linehan is due to appear on this but a petition has being started to have him removed. There was an article on the matter on an Irish newspaper website but it has being removed.
Where do people stand on this matter?

Personally I can see both sides on the matter when it comes to kids/teenagers transitioning and how it may effect them in the long term since it's such a big change to make but I'm no expert on the matter.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/opposition-to-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-being-on-tv-transgender-debate-skz8mp2rb

https://www.change.org/p/donogh-diamond-rte-to-remove-graham-linehan-piece-from-upcoming-prime-time-show-on-transgender-issues

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Alrigghtythen

yosser hughes wrote: »

Billy's rights might override that.
So you see the consequences of being cool with trans men self identifying? Or just being blasé about men in dresses. Sure what's the big deal,live and let live right?
The point being when you legislate to normalise this it's too late to change your mind.

I'd be in favour of being able to say, OI, Billy there's children in there and your making them feel uncomfortable. Can you change in the toilet?

Billy needs to play the part too and accept changing in the toilet. The world owes him nothing, no more nor less than the rest of us.

If I turn up to a black tie event in a shell tracksuit, people are going to notice, but they are not going to change their fancy dinner to a hamburger to suit me, nor will I demand them too. Same thing with Billy.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

I'd be in favour of being able to say, OI, Billy there's children in there and your making them feel uncomfortable. Can you change in the toilet?

Billy needs to play the part too and accept changing in the toilet. The world owes him nothing, no more nor less than the rest of us.

If I turn up to a black tie event in a shell tracksuit, people are going to notice, but they are not going to change their fancy dinner to a hamburger to suit me, nor will I demand them too. Same thing with Billy.

I don’t think you understand the legal situation here. Assuming that she has self identified and got her documents Billy ( short I suppose for willomena) is a woman legally. She may have a penis and beard, and huge muscle mass but she’s a woman in law.

Asking her to do anything differently than other women is legally discrimination.

yosser hughes

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

I'd be in favour of being able to say, OI, Billy there's children in there and your making them feel uncomfortable. Can you change in the toilet?

Billy needs to play the part too and accept changing in the toilet. The world owes him nothing, no more nor less than the rest of us.

If I turn up to a black tie event in a shell tracksuit, people are going to notice, but they are not going to change their fancy dinner to a hamburger to suit me, nor will I demand them too. Same thing with Billy.

You're not really grasping the issue here

HandsomeBob

squawker wrote: »

So you have to be qualified to have an opinion now?

You need to be qualified or adequately experienced in the issue if you want to go on public television to debate it.

squawker

HandsomeBob wrote: »

You need to be qualified or adequately experienced in the issue if you want to go on public television to debate it.

I know nothing about yer man apart from seeing him in a Alan Partridge episode and a writer for Father Ted

Maybe he has experience in this matter, and if he doesn't he will come across as a fool

Either way he quite entitled to voice his opinion if invited to the show

batgoat

squawker wrote: »

So you have to be qualified to have an opinion now?

HandsomeBob wrote: »

You need to be qualified or adequately experienced in the issue if you want to go on public television to debate it.

Particularly when you're making false equivalency such as likening being transgender to bulimia... Espousing that stuff does have a negative effect on the mental health on those who are dealing with being transgender. In the exact same way as bull**** views during the marriage referendum impacted the LGBTQ community when similarly nasty rhetoric was used.

HandsomeBob

squawker wrote: »

I know nothing about yer man apart from seeing him in a Alan Partridge episode and a writer for Father Ted

Maybe he has experience in this matter, and if he doesn't he will come across as a fool

Either way he quite entitled to voice his opinion if invited to the show

He is quite entitled to voice his opinion and I'm not against him appearing. I hope he does but if RTÉ do their job and get the opposing argument adequately stocked he'll get eviscerated.

A father or mother with Linehan's opinion really need to understand that their experience isn't the only experience and in turn need to do their research before getting up on the platform.

Billy86

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If Billy wants to put on a dress and call himself Mary, I can't see the issue.

I do have an issue with censoring people who state that Billy's wearing a dress.

I only did that a couple of times! :mad:

ste

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s not how it ended up. Dee didn’t want the guys in her toilet. The ending was calling it an animal sh1thouse.

Self identification has a clear effect on women’s spaces, prisons, refuges and sports.

Not really that edge case.

I watched the full ep alright but I thought it was pretty pointed that the obvious answer was to call both them toilets. Yes they then went on & ramped up the gag.

Please about those 4 sets of circumstances, what is the Implication?

I think a solution or reason could be used to minimize any discomfort/worry there. Obviously also there are arguments around sexual orientation & of course peados & predators can exist in both genders attracted to either/both.

paleoperson

VeryTerry wrote: »

I can't imagine either side would want Linehan representing them. His head is gone.

I haven't seen Linehan speak on these issues but I cannot imagine how someone could be too much against or too offensive to transgenderism in modern times.

They're giving medications and hormone-blockers to little kids who claim to identify as the other gender! Then hormones and surgeries to young teenagers.

Transgenderism a plague on modern society and there's a big backlash brewing in the US now, lawsuits are starting to be brought up against people who did operations, people who became transgender claiming the whole thing is nonsensical... the whole thing is starting to collapse.

[Deleted User]

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The fact is though that very few women have felt threatened by another woman, sexually or otherwise. The majority of women have had an experience of a man making them uncomfortable.

Have many women felt threatened by a trans woman? Have the majority of women had an experience of a trans woman making them uncomfortable?

Dick phelan wrote: »

I ask this as a genuine question not to make a cheap point. If a white person or whatever said they now identify as black would anyone accept them for what they say they are. If not then why? Why is it we would say no to somebody saying they are a different race but accept people who say they are a different gender. Personally i think your born as you are, what you want to be is irrelevant when it comes to genetics and science. The facts are the facts and it's crazy a certain section of society think we should ignore it and pretend we can all change our gender if we like. Na i ain't getting on board with that.

Did you do much research to inform your opinion on this? Did you talk to any trans people, or to any of the experts that work with them? Did you read any life stories of trans people?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Anti self identification, yes.

Really? Any source for this?

squawker wrote: »

I would like to hear his opinion

Even if I agree or not

If you want to hear his opinion, follow him on Twitter or listen to his recent podcast. He isn't being silenced. The only question is to whether it's a good idea for a public service broadcaster like RTE bringing him onto to a serious, current affairs show on a sensitive topic.

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If Billy wants to put on a dress and call himself Mary, I can't see the issue.

I do have an issue with censoring people who state that Billy's wearing a dress.

No-one is censoring him. The only question is to whether it's a good idea for a public service broadcaster like RTE bringing him onto to a serious, current affairs show on a sensitive topic.

squawker wrote: »

So you have to be qualified to have an opinion now?

He's quite entitled to whatever opinion he likes. He isn't being silenced. The only question is to whether it's a good idea for a public service broadcaster like RTE bringing him onto to a serious, current affairs show on a sensitive topic.

yosser hughes wrote: »

If Billy wants to use the same changing rooms as your 7 year old daughter at the pool is that not an issue for you?

Has this problem come up at all in the two years since self-identification was recognised here? Anyway, don't most pools have changing cubicles now, not communal changing rooms?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Self identification has a clear effect on women’s spaces, prisons, refuges and sports.

Really? What effects has it had on women's spaces in the last two years here?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I don’t think you understand the legal situation here. Assuming that she has self identified and got her documents Billy ( short I suppose for willomena) is a woman legally. She may have a penis and beard, and huge muscle mass but she’s a woman in law.

Asking her to do anything differently than other women is legally discrimination.

Is there any legal basis for this personal claim? Any case histories, or any guidance for any legal expert?

squawker wrote: »

Either way he quite entitled to voice his opinion if invited to the show

The question isn't whether he's entitled to voice his opinion if invited on the show. The only question is to whether it's a good idea for a public service broadcaster like RTE bringing him onto to a serious, current affairs show on a sensitive topic.

paleoperson wrote: »

I haven't seen Linehan speak on these issues but I cannot imagine how someone could be too much against or too offensive to transgenderism in modern times.

They're giving medications and hormone-blockers to little kids who claim to identify as the other gender! Then hormones and surgeries to young teenagers.

Transgenderism a plague on modern society and there's a big backlash brewing in the US now, lawsuits are starting to be brought up against people who did operations, people who became transgender claiming the whole thing is nonsensical... the whole thing is starting to collapse.

Wishful thinking - pure fantasy.

Dante7

Medically and scientifically less that one in 20000 people are gender dysphoric, but five times as many as that self-identify as trans (and they are very generous stats on the medical side). At least four out five trans people aren't genuinely gender dysphoric. Trauma, abuse, PTSD, and a host of other psychiatric conditions account for the vast majority of self ID trans. We need to be very careful here. The correct treatment for most of these cases is counselling and CBT, not hormone therapy and chopping a kids balls off. There's a very nasty agenda at play here that has suckered in the progressives into thinking that this is something they have to support unquestioningly.

[Deleted User]

Dante7 wrote: »

Medically and scientifically less that one in 20000 people are gender dysphoric, but five times as many as that self-identify as trans (and they are very generous stats on the medical side). At least four out five trans people aren't genuinely gender dysphoric. Trauma, abuse, PTSD, and a host of other psychiatric conditions account for the vast majority of self ID trans. We need to be very careful here. The correct treatment for most of these cases is counselling and CBT, not hormone therapy and chopping a kids balls off. There's a very nasty agenda at play here that has suckered in the progressives into thinking that this is something they have to support unquestioningly.

Do any of these numbers or comments relate to Ireland?

rgodard80a

HandsomeBob wrote: »

You need to be qualified or adequately experienced in the issue if you want to go on public television to debate it.

Way to start making up rules !

You don't need to be qualified to go on a jury.

jaxxx

I'm a sock.

pumpkin4life

Dante7 wrote: »

Medically and scientifically less that one in 20000 people are gender dysphoric, but five times as many as that self-identify as trans (and they are very generous stats on the medical side). At least four out five trans people aren't genuinely gender dysphoric. Trauma, abuse, PTSD, and a host of other psychiatric conditions account for the vast majority of self ID trans. We need to be very careful here. The correct treatment for most of these cases is counselling and CBT, not hormone therapy and chopping a kids balls off. There's a very nasty agenda at play here that has suckered in the progressives into thinking that this is something they have to support unquestioningly.

Yeah, who hates transgender people? Feck all really.

But the reality is that their life outcomes are horrible. 40% commit suicide and taking steroids fùcks up your body completely, tanks your life expectancy.

It sickens me that lads virtue signal using such a vulnerable group of people to do so. You want to out of your own free will? Sure, go for it. But don't fùck up some confused, effeminate kid who needs a bit of help, just to show how nice a person you are.

You're not nice.

But he's a woman inside!

Yeah, sure he is, keep telling yourself that.

Dante7

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do any of these numbers or comments relate to Ireland?

I am going to save you, me and everyone else a bit of time here. I could provide cited references to studies, peer reviewed papers by biologists, case studies and other empirical evidence. But it would be a waste of time with you. You would spot a comma out of place and then try to distract and drag the debate down that rabbit hole. No thanks. Not tonight.

[Deleted User]

Dante7 wrote: »

I am going to save you, me and everyone else a bit of time here. I could provide cited references to studies, peer reviewed papers by biologists, case studies and other empirical evidence. But it would be a waste of time with you. You would spot a comma out of place and then try to distract and drag the debate down that rabbit hole. No thanks. Not tonight.

So that's a No then, none of them relate to Ireland. Didn't think so.

expectationlost

I thought RTE PrimeTime was supposed to be a show for investigations, people with first hand experience, experts and analysis not random pundits. Leave that to the Clare Byrne show atleast if you have to do it.

[Deleted User]

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Yeah, who hates transgender people? Feck all really.

But the reality is that their life outcomes are horrible. 40% commit suicide and taking steroids fùcks up your body completely, tanks your life expectancy.

It sickens me that lads virtue signal using such a vulnerable group of people to do so. You want to out of your own free will? Sure, go for it. But don't fùck up some confused, effeminate kid who needs a bit of help, just to show how nice a person you are.

You're not nice.

But he's a woman inside!

Yeah, sure he is, keep telling yourself that.

You meant to say that 40% of attempted suicide, right?

http://www.teni.ie/page.aspx?contentid=673

It's a fairly shocking number, but it's also dramatically different to saying that 40% have committed suicide.

But it's also fairly meaningless in the context of this discussion, unless you can show that the poor outcomes are linked to or caused by the kind of treatments you disdain.

Dante7

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So that's a No then, none of them relate to Ireland. Didn't think so.

I knew you were going to say that. I was going to edit my post to predict you saying this. You have the debating ability of a gnat.

Let's break down your argument. You seem to impart some sort of significance to the fact that because there have been no issues in Ireland so far that it is not a problem. Self ID laws are very new in Ireland. In other areas where they have become more established, there are indeed incidents that give cause for concern. Just because it hasn't happened here yet doesnt mean it isn't an issue. People werent vying for world supremacy in Naas between 1939-45, but I heard it was a bit of a thing.

pumpkin4life

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You meant to say that 40% of attempted suicide, right?

http://www.teni.ie/page.aspx?contentid=673

It's a fairly shocking number, but it's also dramatically different to saying that 40% have committed suicide.

But it's also fairly meaningless in the context of this discussion, unless you can show that the poor outcomes are linked to or caused by the kind of treatments you disdain.

No it isn't. This is completely wrong.

A treatment that causes 40% to attempt suicide is a massive failure by any standard.

If Graham Linehan gets more people to realize how sinister this stuff is, then good for him.

paleoperson

pumpkin4life wrote: »

No it isn't. This is completely wrong.

A treatment that causes 40% to attempt suicide is a massive failure by any standard.

If Graham Linehan gets more people to realize how sinister this stuff is, then good for him.

I thanked this post for fwiw I do not believe that this treatment causes 40% to commit suicide.

batgoat

pumpkin4life wrote: »

No it isn't. This is completely wrong.

A treatment that causes 40% to attempt suicide is a massive failure by any standard.

If Graham Linehan gets more people to realize how sinister this stuff is, then good for him.

Except you have failed to provide any proof that the treatments cause suicidal ideation... Mental health issues are generally higher in the LGBTQ community but it's generally because of how ****ty society can be and not providing the right supports.

pleas advice

Dante7 wrote: »

Medically and scientifically less that one in 20000 people are gender dysphoric, but five times as many as that self-identify as trans (and they are very generous stats on the medical side). At least four out five trans people aren't genuinely gender dysphoric. Trauma, abuse, PTSD, and a host of other psychiatric conditions account for the vast majority of self ID trans. We need to be very careful here. The correct treatment for most of these cases is counselling and CBT, not hormone therapy and chopping a kids balls off. There's a very nasty agenda at play here that has suckered in the progressives into thinking that this is something they have to support unquestioningly.

seen a film about this once

HandsomeBob

rgodard80a wrote: »

Way to start making up rules !

You don't need to be qualified to go on a jury.

I'm confused about where you're questioning what I said.

Dante7

paleoperson wrote: »

I thanked this post for fwiw I do not believe that this treatment causes 40% to commit suicide.

Yeah, that's a leap. The suicide stats for trans are shocking, but it is not as simple as the trans activists would have you believe, saying it is down to non-acceptance. The majority of trans are not gender dysphoric. There are mental issues at play with a lot of self id trans, and that may explain a lot of the suicide stats.

[Deleted User]

pumpkin4life wrote: »

No it isn't. This is completely wrong.

A treatment that causes 40% to attempt suicide is a massive failure by any standard.

If Graham Linehan gets more people to realize how sinister this stuff is, then good for him.

How exactly did you conclude that the treatment causes the attempted (not actual) suicides?

Dante7 wrote: »

I knew you were going to say that. I was going to edit my post to predict you saying this. You have the debating ability of a gnat.

Let's break down your argument. You seem to impart some sort of significance to the fact that because there have been no issues in Ireland so far that it is not a problem. Self ID laws are very new in Ireland. In other areas where they have become more established, there are indeed incidents that give cause for concern. Just because it hasn't happened here yet doesnt mean it isn't an issue. People werent vying for world supremacy in Naas between 1939-45, but I heard it was a bit of a thing.

Congrats on your ability to predict the future. Would you like to take a shot at the Lotto numbers for Wednesday?

I understand that St Michael's Terrace in Naas was known as Blueshirt Alley at one stage, so perhaps they did have their old world domination tendancies down there.

As for the self ID laws, yes, you're right, they are very new, and that doesn't mean there won't be any issues in the future. And yes, there have been issues elsewhere - different issues in different cultures in different legal systems, so the applicability of those issues to Ireland is questionable. The scope and extent of issues is highly dubious too, given the numbers involved in Ireland.

So is this really a big issue? Or is it people who are using a tiny number of international incidents to scaremonger or justify their own personal discomfort?

klaaaz

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Yeah, who hates transgender people? Feck all really.

There is still alot of hate out there including in this thread towards transgenders, self ID or medically transitioned ones.
Many transgender people have lost family, friends, work colleagues for the "crime" of coming out and transitioning. Plus the added affect for a trans woman to "pass" in the street in order to avoid violent men who get offended and attack them.
No wonder their mental health suffers, would you like to experience all of that? Don't think you would, it takes a very brave person to go through that experience.

Dante7

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So is this really a big issue? Or is it people who are using a tiny number of international incidents to scaremonger or justify their own personal discomfort?

Yeah, I do think it is a big issue. In similar jurisdictions we have already seen:
Self id trans bringing lawsuits against beauty parlours for not waxing his balls
Self Id trans sexually assaulting a woman with his penis in a female only institution.
Children given hormone blocking therapy and surgery against medical advice.
Self id trans competing and winning in women's sports.

There are a lot of serious issues to be discussed here. Just because it is the latest cause celebre for the right on crew doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

For those saying that Graham Linehan is not qualified to speak on this issue, I reckon he knows more about this subject than most people. It is a bit of a crusade with him and he has researched the subject thoroughly. I don't recall there being any objection to the numerous celebrities and left leaning media people being wheeled out to give their wholly inexpert views on abortion or homosexuality.