seamus wrote: » You think most women are anti-trans?
Dick phelan wrote: » I ask this as a genuine question not to make a cheap point. If a white person or whatever said they now identify as black would anyone accept them for what they say they are. If not then why? Why is it we would say no to somebody saying they are a different race but accept people who say they are a different gender. Personally i think your born as you are, what you want to be is irrelevant when it comes to genetics and science. The facts are the facts and it's crazy a certain section of society think we should ignore it and pretend we can all change our gender if we like. Na i ain't getting on board with that.
Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: » That seems quite high a number actually. That’d be around 16,000 people in Ireland.
freshpopcorn wrote: » Prime Time are airing a special about transgender issues on Tuesday night at 21:35. I believe it mainly involves young people but will also show older people who have transitioned. Graham Linehan is due to appear on this but a petition has being started to have him removed. There was an article on the matter on an Irish newspaper website but it has being removed. Where do people stand on this matter? Personally I can see both sides on the matter when it comes to kids/teenagers transitioning and how it may effect them in the long term since it's such a big change to make but I'm no expert on the matter.https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/opposition-to-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-being-on-tv-transgender-debate-skz8mp2rbhttps://www.change.org/p/donogh-diamond-rte-to-remove-graham-linehan-piece-from-upcoming-prime-time-show-on-transgender-issues
Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: » Seen this pop up a few times, in this thread, online and amongst teens. What de fcuk is a woke male?
Muckka wrote: » Chewbacca could tell you that, they're usually hairy animal like creatures... Or else they're supposedly men who've capitulated for a quiet life, and he takes it on the chin.....let's herself wear the trousers kind of thing....
ceadaoin. wrote: » Can you link to any cases of trans women facing violence in women's shelters? Women saying no, that they don't feel comfortable with a male being there is not violence.
ceadaoin. wrote: » The fact is though that very few women have felt threatened by another woman, sexually or otherwise. The majority of women have had an experience of a man making them uncomfortable. It's pretty much gaslighting to constantly tell women that other women pose a threat when for the most part their lived experience tells them otherwise. You should listen
seamus wrote: » Except that's not what will happen. They won't get a qualified professional on to listen and deconstruct his argument. There will be Linehan on one side, with some questionable professional like Patricia Casey, opposite a trans woman (or man) beside an expert on human rights or the head of some charitable organisation. And rather than uninformed nonsense being properly deconstructed and destroyed, it'll be a sh1tshow of ignorant and hateful comments thrown against continuous pleading for respect and humanity. We've seen enough of this bolloxology over the last 3 years. RTE are afraid to get qualified people and put them opposite unqualified ones lest they get sued like John Waters and Iona did over their homophobic ranting. So instead they find the lowest common denominator and make sure the panelists are as unqualified as eachother.
LoonyLovegood wrote: » I don't see why someone who doesn't live here is being interviewed for a piece on transgender laws in Ireland? I mean, he doesn't live here, hasn't for years, and has been cautioned by police for the way he's treated some trans people. If you want to have someone who'd have similar views to him, find someone who's actually here. Don't be dragging the chaos that is anything to do with the UK over here. I mean, after his Christmas 'Graham is off twitter for Christmas, this is his assistant' idiocy, who'd trust him?
seamus wrote: » Right, they don't. But TERFs do. That's my point. TERFs exist entirely because of the boogeyman of the predatory transwoman. Exactly the same kind of hysterical irrational fear that drove anti-gay sentiment for years; the fear that gay men were lurking around corners waiting to pounce on innocent people and defile them. What makes it ironic is that the same people who would claim that men are under attack, are the exact same people who would side with TERFs, even though TERFs ideology is based on the premise that men are bad and dangerous, and therefore transwoman should not be tolerated.
One eyed Jack wrote: » it’s actually far more likely that a person who is trans will be subjected to abuse by both men and women, including trans women who are trying to escape domestic violence who go into women’s shelters, who are then subjected to abuse and violence from women in those shelters. .
HandsomeBob wrote: » On second thought let him appear - that type of crazy comment needs to be heard and duly deconstructed.
Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: » Is Linehan anti-trans? That’s a genuine question, I don’t know an awful lot about his Twitter outbursts on the topic. It’s just, if he is expressing reservations about things like pre-teens being given medication to block puberty or questioning whether young teenagers should undergo sex-change surgery, that doesn’t necessarily indicate that he is anti-trans, does it? Has he gone farther than this, made openly anti-trans statements?
One eyed Jack wrote: » Reading back on your posts, I do see that your concern is solely with a subset of men who will (and have) used trans rights to enter women’s spaces in order to abuse and hurt. My point, is that the men who want to abuse and hurt women, will abuse and hurt women by any means, and whether or not trans rights are legally recognised, those men would still find ways to hurt and abuse women. Women wouldn’t need shelter in the first place if men didn’t abuse and hurt them. That has absolutely nothing to do with legal rights which acknowledge people who are transgender in Irish society. With regard to the risk of being hurt by someone who trans, it’s actually far more likely that a person who is trans will be subjected to abuse by both men and women, including trans women who are trying to escape domestic violence who go into women’s shelters, who are then subjected to abuse and violence from women in those shelters. The risk of you being subjected to violence from someone who is transgender doesn’t even come close to the risk of you being subjected to abuse and violence from either men or women who claim to be transgender, and even then - it’s an awful lot of trouble to go to when they actually don’t have to claim to be transgender at all in order to abuse and commit violence against you, nor does their claim to be transgender place them above the law - they would still be subject to the same laws as anyone else, regardless of their gender identity. If you were to have violence committed against you by either a man or a woman claiming to be transgender in order to have access to you to commit violence against you, that’s considered an aggravating factor in a case against them. Consider if you will this case from the UK where a woman claiming to be transgender was given a jail sentence for being found guilty of rape by deception of another woman -Gayle Newland: Lawyers for woman who duped female lover into thinking she was a man consider appeal I didn’t dismiss a woman’s risk of being hurt by men at all. In fact I gave you a far more realistic evaluation of the risk based upon evidence gathered over decades of research, as opposed to anecdotal evidence (and the risk is falling, as opposed to increasing, so lobbyists are attempting to redefine the terms because they rely on anecdotal evidence to support their aims). I’m just not overstating the risk as you’re attempting to do is all. You’re not living in a country where your safety is constantly at risk. Excuse me? I don’t know too many women who go out with the thought that they may be raped in the back of their heads? It’s a good thing for them too because they aren’t living their lives in fear of something that is unlikely ever to happen to them. Contrary to your belief, most women absolutely do not live their lives in a constant state of fear and hyper-vigilance. That sort of paranoia would be exhausting and depressing and they would suffer greatly with their mental health. That is absolutely your right, and I would never want to take that away from you. You hold on to that thought. However, if those thoughts cause you to treat other people with unfair prejudice, such as refusing people who are transgender their human rights, then you may run into issues with the authorities. I probably won’t give two fouks tbh as you’ve already made me aware that I’m a threat to your safety, so I shan’t be leaping to your defence any time soon. I’ll never understand the appeal to relatives as though it’s supposed to supersede all other legal rights that people are entitled to. For what it’s worth though, I’m a separated father of a teenage son whom you regard as a danger to your safety. Thankfully neither my wife, my mother, my sister and any of my female friends do not consider either me or my son to be a threat to their safety. I don’t know what any of that has to do with dismantling women’s protections for trans rights though. The fact is that women’s protections will still exist, and since 2015 at least, protection for people who are transgender has existed in Irish legislation. What you’re attempting to do, and what Graham Linehan the unfortunate fcuk is attempting to do, is close the gate after the horse has bolted. It’s similar to the way in which during the marriage equality campaign I met many people who were of the opinion that they would support marriage equality, but they wouldn’t support same-sex couples adopting children. They were surprised to be told that marriage equality had nothing to do with adoption, same-sex couples could already adopt children and were already raising children, and one of the effects of marriage equality would mean that the children of same-sex couples would have the same legal protections in law as the children of opposite-sex couples. Point being - people who are transgender already exist in Irish society, as do their children, as do children who are transgender. What they lack, is the same legal recognition and protections as everyone else in Irish society. Social acceptance is something that has to happen over time, but legal recognition and protection and acknowledgment of their human rights, is something we can do something about right now.
Billy86 wrote: » I know a few women stronger than the average man, one or two to a pretty absurd extent. What would you do if one of them sexually assaulted you? And what would a smaller, weaker woman do if you (or a woman built similar to you) sexually assaulted them? Because you're coming across as being under the impression that women are simply not all that capable of posing any real threat of sexual assault on the basis that women are all around equal strength, which simply isn't true.
ironwalk wrote: » One eyed Jack wrote: » Don’t be silly, there’s no such thing as a female sexual predator! Cat, meet pigeons Ah, here lads. Men have the advantage in physical strength. I have a fair chance against any female who wants to have a go; against even a mediocre man, nope, I'm going to come off badly injured. Even a man who is shorter than me. And, I'm on the tall, physically fit, well built end of the female spectrum.
One eyed Jack wrote: » Don’t be silly, there’s no such thing as a female sexual predator! Cat, meet pigeons
jam_mac_jam wrote: » Because you want to be safe does not mean that you hate men or trans women. We are talking about a tiny proportion of people here but we have a right to be safe without being told we are man haters. Frankly it undermines your argument to go back to the old stereotypes. Feminists do not hate men.
ironwalk wrote: » Was it in jest? Many a true word etc etc. If you read back on my posts, you'll see that my concern is solely with the subset of men, who will (and have) used trans rights to enter women's spaces in order to abuse and hurt. I suspect that the risk of being hurt by a transgender wo/man is exactly the same as being hurt by any other male bodied person.
As for the dismissal of women's risk of being hurt by men....are you seriously dismissing that, on an Irish forum, given our history?
I may have a slim chance of being raped, but no woman goes out without it being in the back of their heads.
I will continue to treat unknown men as if they are potential abusers because until I know you're safe, then I'm going to treat you as unsafe. (and here's the thing, in my personal experience, abusive men have been teachers, classmates, randomers on the Luas, boyfriends etc).
And if you have any of the following: a mother/wife/sister/female partner/daughter , then I urge you to consider my earlier examples. Then tell me, whether women's protections should be dismantled for trans rights.
blanch152 wrote: » ohnonotgmail wrote: » Nobody is dismissing anything. What was said is very simple. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man is low. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man who is pretending to identify as a woman is so low as to be non-existent. The case of Karen White illustrates that.
ohnonotgmail wrote: » Nobody is dismissing anything. What was said is very simple. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man is low. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man who is pretending to identify as a woman is so low as to be non-existent.
