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Child Item

Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

freshpopcorn

Prime Time are airing a special about transgender issues on Tuesday night at 21:35. I believe it mainly involves young people but will also show older people who have transitioned.
Graham Linehan is due to appear on this but a petition has being started to have him removed. There was an article on the matter on an Irish newspaper website but it has being removed.
Where do people stand on this matter?

Personally I can see both sides on the matter when it comes to kids/teenagers transitioning and how it may effect them in the long term since it's such a big change to make but I'm no expert on the matter.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/opposition-to-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-being-on-tv-transgender-debate-skz8mp2rb

https://www.change.org/p/donogh-diamond-rte-to-remove-graham-linehan-piece-from-upcoming-prime-time-show-on-transgender-issues

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ironwalk

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Don’t be silly, there’s no such thing as a female sexual predator!

Cat, meet pigeons

Ah, here lads.
Men have the advantage in physical strength.
I have a fair chance against any female who wants to have a go; against even a mediocre man, nope, I'm going to come off badly injured.
Even a man who is shorter than me.
And, I'm on the tall, physically fit, well built end of the female spectrum.

You can muddy the waters by asking "what about women who kill/hit/rape/abuse" but the chances of me coming across one, is vanishingly small.
A man who can do that?
I could have one in my home, every time I go out at night, every time I have a drink out.

How many times have you been abused, against your will, by a woman?
Cos, for the vast majority of women, we have lots of stories of being touched-up or threatened by men.
Not all men, before you say it, but the subset seems to get around.
And I don't know which one of you it is, so I have to treat you all as if you're Schrödinger's rapist.

ironwalk

seamus wrote: »

Nobody was talking about women's rights. I was responding to a post which claimed that most women would agree with Linehan, i.e. that most women were anti-trans.

Nope, not buying that one either.
I am talking about women's rights.
G Linehan, as far as I can see, is also asserting protective rights for women. Not anti-trans.
It is not a logical progression that agreeing with Linehan = anti-trans.

Agree with his concerns for the potential loss of women rights, does not equal anti-trans.
Agree that predatory men will abuse trans rights to get at women, does not equal anti-trans.
Concern about children's hard-won safeguarding, does not equal anti-trans.

AllForIt

I think all these transgender controversies stem from one simple thing - most ppl do not accept the idea that one is internally one gender and outwardly another. Most ppl think it's a psychological issue. I do to. I have no doubt transgenders believe fully they are internally the opposite gender to their body and I don't see how anyone would have a problem with that per se. I don't. So being transphobic don't make much sense to me. Being nasty to minorities just for the sake of it is not on but having said that I'm not sure how widespread that is anyway.

Disagreeing with transgender rights of the kind we are hearing a lot of recently is a completely different thing to thoughtless transphobia. Radical transfolk are demanding this that and other and it is thoroughly right that these things are vigorously debated before any new rights are given.

It doesn't matter how accepting society is of ppl with gender dysphoria, this is not enough for the trans radicals. They know full well what most ppl's opinion is of gender dysphoria which I mentioned and all these issues concerning toilets etc is an attempt by them to change ppl's view on the issue, to force ppl to accept something they don't without conclusive proof which at this moment in time I don't think exists. Demanding preferred pronouns is a great example of how trans radicals are trying to hack an acceptance of their views on the issue, as if if they can get ppl to speak in a certain way that's equivalent to one thinking a certain way, the way they want. That tactic could only end in disaster and if there is a rise in transphobia their tactic would be the reason for it.

[Deleted User]

ironwalk wrote: »

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Don’t be silly, there’s no such thing as a female sexual predator!

Cat, meet pigeons

You can muddy the waters by asking "what about women who kill/hit/rape/abuse" but the chances of me coming across one, is vanishingly small.

Interesting - so what are the chances of being raped or sexually abused by a transgender female?

In two years that we've legally allowed for self-identification of gender here, how many such incidents have we seen?

Rory28

Regarding the Trans women going into female prisons. Where should we put them? In with the males?

One eyed Jack

ironwalk wrote: »

Ah, here lads.
Men have the advantage in physical strength.
I have a fair chance against any female who wants to have a go; against even a mediocre man, nope, I'm going to come off badly injured.
Even a man who is shorter than me.
And, I'm on the tall, physically fit, well built end of the female spectrum.

You can muddy the waters by asking "what about women who kill/hit/rape/abuse" but the chances of me coming across one, is vanishingly small.
A man who can do that?
I could have one in my home, every time I go out at night, every time I have a drink out.

How many times have you been abused, against your will, by a woman?
Cos, for the vast majority of women, we have lots of stories of being touched-up or threatened by men.
Not all men, before you say it, but the subset seems to get around.
And I don't know which one of you it is, so I have to treat you all as if you're Schrödinger's rapist.

My post was in jest (I tend to do that sometimes :pac:), but since you’ve taken it seriously, I can at least reassure you that the risk of you or your loved ones being killed, hit, raped or abused by someone who identifies themselves as transgender, is a lot more slim than the risk of you or your loved ones being killed, hit, raped or abused, by someone who identifies themselves as a man.

You’re perfectly entitled of course to treat all men as though they are Shrodingers rapist, but that only marks you out as one of those ideologues behind this idea of “rape culture”, when in reality the number of men who commit rape is around 7% - you’re unlikely ever to be raped, and even less likely to be raped by someone who identifies themselves as transgender.

You can go back to muddying the waters now.

jam_mac_jam

Rory28 wrote: »

Regarding the Trans women going into female prisons. Where should we put them? In with the males?

No, I wouldn't. Could you start a separate area or am I being trans phobic. The issue as I see it is that there are places for women, for their safety and its not fair on women to give up this safety for the rights of others. Its not a zero sum game though and I don't think that trans women should be in mens prisons for their safety.

I can put up with it in toilets and changing rooms but I think domestic violence and prisons should be women who were born women only.

Rory28

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No, I wouldn't. Could you start a separate area or am I being trans phobic.

As odd as it sounds I think this is the only solution. Really dont see an alternative because you cannot rely on the guards 100% of the time to stop sh1t happening.

Bannasidhe

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Don’t be silly, there’s no such thing as a female sexual predator!

Cat, meet pigeons

Would you like something to help you stir that Jack?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Is Linehan anti-trans? That’s a genuine question, I don’t know an awful lot about his Twitter outbursts on the topic.

It’s just, if he is expressing reservations about things like pre-teens being given medication to block puberty or questioning whether young teenagers should undergo sex-change surgery, that doesn’t necessarily indicate that he is anti-trans, does it?

Has he gone farther than this, made openly anti-trans statements?

freshpopcorn

The Independent has the article up again.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/petition-calls-for-tv-writer-graham-linehan-to-be-axed-from-prime-time-transgender-debate-37731952.html?fbclid=IwAR1xqb24zA91zaoLaURz1v8c8YbSUqyVPUn1bGSZqtPnIZBt85Su_PrS87U

Sir Oxman

seamus wrote: »

Yes. He is unwilling to entertain any discussion on it unless it meets with his opinion, or even show respect to anyone else in such a discussion.

He's probably gone off the rails tbh. In a discussion where he insists that trans is a mental illness, Linehan probably needs psychiatric help of his own. It's an obsession for him at this stage.

That is untrue.
His whole point is the stifling of any debate for example, which even attempts to query the rights of prescribing puberty blockers to young kids.

ironwalk

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Interesting - so what are the chances of being raped or sexually abused by a transgender female?

In two years that we've legally allowed for self-identification of gender here, how many such incidents have we seen?

I'm not going to engage with muddying the water.

Again, predatory men may use the expansion of trans rights to target women.
Again, if, if a transgender man who identified as female decided to have a go, then I've got little recourse. Some men even find that notion titillating.

We have seen elsewhere beauticians asked to wax a self identifying transwoman's balls?
We have seen women, confined in a women's only institution and were sexually assaulted by a "woman" with a penis.

So, what are the chances? Don't know, but not one that I'm willing to take.
How many incidents? Don't know, but if it's foreseeable, why wait for one?

Tom Mann Centuria

If you read his time line on twitter, he has trans people who support him, and men and women who are supportive of him.

I think he's a smug individual, but for whatever reason he's deep into this subject and if he has been asked for an opinion, and is happy to voice his argument, he should be allowed to do it.

EdgeCase

ironwalk wrote: »

How many times have you been abused, against your will, by a woman?
Cos, for the vast majority of women, we have lots of stories of being touched-up or threatened by men.

Quite a few times actually.

I've been shoved up against a wall by a woman and had a rather horrible smoker's tongue shoved into my mouth. I'd zero interest in her.

I've had my rear pinched, grabbed, I've been fondled on dance floors, I've been shouted at for being less than responsive to flirting. I've had absolutely obnoxious women sit on my lap.

I largely ignored it and wasn't really that freaked about it but it does happen. I would say tho I did find the being corned and forced to kiss someone pretty gross though. I had to wash my mouth out with beer.

I don't mind flirting but some of that stuff is absolutely taking the piss.

I'm bi, so I've experienced similar very unwanted attention from lads too. Including someone who tried to push me into a car when I was about 19 and seemed to think that because I was bi I would somehow be automatically interested ... Absolutely not the case!

This isn't whataboutary btw. I think it's way way out of line when anyone behaves like a sex pest.

It's usually a mix of alcohol, a brass neck and hormones in many cases it'll just be stupid flirty nonsense but some people go WAY beyond that and that's where you're very much into the realms of sexual assault.

I'd say guys can be more threatening because they're usually physically bigger (not always tho).

There's a lot to be said for getting the concept of consent into everyone's heads.

CaptainPants

I think its kind of funny to watch Graham getting hauled over the coals, given that he is the textbook example of how social media ruins minds. I followed him on Twitter once and was amazed to see that the guy who wrote Father Ted would talk in such creepy Stepfordy wokespeak almost all the time.

It was all "Toxic Masculinty" this and "Allyship" that - every word a tombstone for an actual thought. So to see him be outwoked by the even woker is kind of funny. That said, on Trans issues what he's saying is close to most people's opinion on this, which is basically that though we should of course treat trans people with the respect they deserve, we should be careful about giving access to women only spaces to just anybody that says they are trans, and that there is definitely some issues surrounding kids transitioning.

To the wokebots this is 'hate'.

seamus

ironwalk wrote: »

Nope, not buying that one either.
I am talking about women's rights.

The poster I was responding to, wasn't.

Linehan is a self-identified "trans-exclusionary" feminist.

Which is by definition an anti-trans position.

Being for "women's rights" does not make one anti-trans. Being for "women's rights (except trans women)" does make you anti-trans.

What I funniest about this stuff is that TERFs like Linehan focus exclusively on the "female" part. Nobody freaks out about "women in the men's changing room" or "women in men's sports". Anti-trans viewpoints are focussed almost exclusively on trans females, and the apparent damage they can do. How they are trying to make "real" women unsafe.

At the root of this belief is an inherent anti-male bias. The belief that all men are violent sexual predators who cannot help ourselves, and a man even if he identifies as a woman, presents a danger to women and their rights.

TERFs, like Linehan, are the raving, man-hating, misandrist feminists that the denizens of AH claim are lurking around every corner.

Yet I can guarantee you'll all be on his side because, "Well, sure of course they're not women, this is lefty craziness".

ironwalk

One eyed Jack wrote: »

My post was in jest (I tend to do that sometimes :pac:), but since you’ve taken it seriously, I can at least reassure you that the risk of you or your loved ones being killed, hit, raped or abused by someone who identifies themselves as transgender, is a lot more slim than the risk of you or your loved ones being killed, hit, raped or abused, by someone who identifies themselves as a man.

You’re perfectly entitled of course to treat all men as though they are Shrodingers rapist, but that only marks you out as one of those ideologues behind this idea of “rape culture”, when in reality the number of men who commit rape is around 7% - you’re unlikely ever to be raped, and even less likely to be raped by someone who identifies themselves as transgender.

You can go back to muddying the waters now.

Was it in jest? Many a true word etc etc.
If you read back on my posts, you'll see that my concern is solely with the subset of men, who will (and have) used trans rights to enter women's spaces in order to abuse and hurt.
I suspect that the risk of being hurt by a transgender wo/man is exactly the same as being hurt by any other male bodied person.

As for the dismissal of women's risk of being hurt by men....are you seriously dismissing that, on an Irish forum, given our history?
I may have a slim chance of being raped, but no woman goes out without it being in the back of their heads.
I will continue to treat unknown men as if they are potential abusers because until I know you're safe, then I'm going to treat you as unsafe. (and here's the thing, in my personal experience, abusive men have been teachers, classmates, randomers on the Luas, boyfriends etc).

And if you have any of the following: a mother/wife/sister/female partner/daughter , then I urge you to consider my earlier examples.
Then tell me, whether women's protections should be dismantled for trans rights.

ohnonotgmail

ironwalk wrote: »

Was it in jest? Many a true word etc etc.
If you read back on my posts, you'll see that my concern is solely with the subset of men, who will (and have) used trans rights to enter women's spaces in order to abuse and hurt.
I suspect that the risk of being hurt by a transgender wo/man is exactly the same as being hurt by any other male bodied person.

As for the dismissal of women's risk of being hurt by men....are you seriously dismissing that, on an Irish forum, given our history?
I may have a slim chance of being raped, but no woman goes out without it being in the back of their heads.
I will continue to treat unknown men as if they are potential abusers because until I know you're safe, then I'm going to treat you as unsafe. (and here's the thing, in my personal experience, abusive men have been teachers, classmates, randomers on the Luas, boyfriends etc).

And if you have any of the following: a mother/wife/sister/female partner/daughter , then I urge you to consider my earlier examples.
Then tell me, whether women's protections should be dismantled for trans rights.

Nobody is dismissing anything. What was said is very simple. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man is low. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man who is pretending to identify as a woman is so low as to be non-existent.

[Deleted User]

ironwalk wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Interesting - so what are the chances of being raped or sexually abused by a transgender female?

In two years that we've legally allowed for self-identification of gender here, how many such incidents have we seen?

I'm not going to engage with muddying the water.

Again, predatory men may use the expansion of trans rights to target women.
Again, if, if a transgender man who identified as female decided to have a go, then I've got little recourse. Some men even find that notion titillating.

We have seen elsewhere beauticians asked to wax a self identifying transwoman's balls?
We have seen women, confined in a women's only institution and were sexually assaulted by a "woman" with a penis.

So, what are the chances? Don't know, but not one that I'm willing to take.
How many incidents? Don't know, but if it's foreseeable, why wait for one?

But you're happy to "wait for one" from a female sexual predator?

ironwalk

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Nobody is dismissing anything. What was said is very simple. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man is low. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man who is pretending to identify as a woman is so low as to be non-existent.

The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man is low

So low, that most women have experienced some version of it.
Or, are you denying what women tell you about their lives?

CalamariFritti

So after a brief google it appears that somewhere between 1 in 200 to 300 people identifiy as transgender to varying degrees.

Of course these people should not be discriminated against and supported instead and their rights and dignity protected like every one else’s but I didn’t realise that those numbers justify it becoming ‘a new thing’.

ohnonotgmail

ironwalk wrote: »

The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man is low

So low, that most women have experienced some version of it.
Or, are you denying what women tell you about their lives?

define "most women" and "assault"

ironwalk

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

But you're happy to "wait for one" from a female sexual predator?

Nope, didn't say that, don't put words in my mouth.
But, I've only ever had one woman push the line, and I was able to push back. No fear that she would strangle me, or punch my teeth in.

Have had lots of experience of men not listening when I said 'no'. Always with the worry that they'd take it badly and lash out.

blanch152

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Nobody is dismissing anything. What was said is very simple. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man is low. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man who is pretending to identify as a woman is so low as to be non-existent.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

The tale of Karen White is interesting. While, on the one hand, you can argue that the percentage of men who are likely to commit a sexually motivated crime on women is higher than the percentage of transgender women who are likely to commit a sexually motivated crime on women, and I would fully accept that, unless someone else can produce statistics that differ. I would also accept that the proportion of women likely to commit a sexually motivated crime on women is less than the percentage of transgender women who are likely to commit a sexually motivated crime on women. Therefore, in allowing transgender women to access "women-only" areas, there is an increased risk to women.

However, a crime depends on a number of factors, and that argument only addresses one, that of motivation. A second, and often more important factor, is opportunity. Thousands of people might pick up a bag of cash lying on the ground, but most of us never get the opportunity. Transgender women get an opportunity that men don't, through access.

The case of Karen White illustrates that.

Bannasidhe

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Nobody is dismissing anything. What was said is very simple. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man is low. The chances of a woman being assaulted by a man who is pretending to identify as a woman is so low as to be non-existent.

Sadly there have been quite a few reports from lesbians across the UK that such assaults have happened in women only clubs. Too many from too wide a geographical area to be dismissed.
I do not for a second believe the perpetrators of these assaults are genuinely trans, I think they are predatory men acting out some 'I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body' scenario. The descriptions of these men is that they are simply dressed in women's clothes with bad wigs.
I know too many people (MTF AND FTM) who are genuinely transitioning and have seen the time and care they take to 'learn' to express their real gender to think for a second any of them would think putting on a frock/suit is all there is to it.

Dial Hard

ironwalk wrote: »

So, what are the chances? Don't know, but not one that I'm willing to take.
How many incidents? Don't know, but if it's foreseeable, why wait for one?

By that logic, we should segregate both genders entirely in case of an incident. But we don't, because in the real world, we know that it's completely impossible to legislate for such things.

The fact of the matter is that you, your daughter, your elderly mother and any other woman is far more likely to be sexually assaulted by a partner, friend, ex or man otherwise known to her than by the bogeyman pretending to be transgender that you seem to be convinced will be hiding in every bathroom and changing room.

Gravelly

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

for whatever reason he's deep into this subject

One could almost say balls deep, if that's not an act of violence against transsomethingorother.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So after a brief google it appears that somewhere between 1 in 200 to 300 people identifiy as transgender to varying degrees.

Of course these people should not be discriminated against and supported instead and their rights and dignity protected like every one else’s but I didn’t realise that those numbers justify it becoming ‘a new thing’.

That seems quite high a number actually. That’d be around 16,000 people in Ireland.

keano_afc

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I used to like Irish Simpsons Fans Facebook group until they deleted this, because it was offensive and they hate Linehan anyway.

That group used to be funny until it started being a liberal mouthpiece. I was banned for posting a pro-life meme.