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Child Item

Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

freshpopcorn

Prime Time are airing a special about transgender issues on Tuesday night at 21:35. I believe it mainly involves young people but will also show older people who have transitioned.
Graham Linehan is due to appear on this but a petition has being started to have him removed. There was an article on the matter on an Irish newspaper website but it has being removed.
Where do people stand on this matter?

Personally I can see both sides on the matter when it comes to kids/teenagers transitioning and how it may effect them in the long term since it's such a big change to make but I'm no expert on the matter.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/opposition-to-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-being-on-tv-transgender-debate-skz8mp2rb

https://www.change.org/p/donogh-diamond-rte-to-remove-graham-linehan-piece-from-upcoming-prime-time-show-on-transgender-issues

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Bannasidhe

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Don’t be silly, there’s no such thing as a female sexual predator!

Cat, meet pigeons

Would you like something to help you stir that Jack?

Rory28

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No, I wouldn't. Could you start a separate area or am I being trans phobic.

As odd as it sounds I think this is the only solution. Really dont see an alternative because you cannot rely on the guards 100% of the time to stop sh1t happening.

jam_mac_jam

Rory28 wrote: »

Regarding the Trans women going into female prisons. Where should we put them? In with the males?

No, I wouldn't. Could you start a separate area or am I being trans phobic. The issue as I see it is that there are places for women, for their safety and its not fair on women to give up this safety for the rights of others. Its not a zero sum game though and I don't think that trans women should be in mens prisons for their safety.

I can put up with it in toilets and changing rooms but I think domestic violence and prisons should be women who were born women only.

One eyed Jack

ironwalk wrote: »

Ah, here lads.
Men have the advantage in physical strength.
I have a fair chance against any female who wants to have a go; against even a mediocre man, nope, I'm going to come off badly injured.
Even a man who is shorter than me.
And, I'm on the tall, physically fit, well built end of the female spectrum.

You can muddy the waters by asking "what about women who kill/hit/rape/abuse" but the chances of me coming across one, is vanishingly small.
A man who can do that?
I could have one in my home, every time I go out at night, every time I have a drink out.

How many times have you been abused, against your will, by a woman?
Cos, for the vast majority of women, we have lots of stories of being touched-up or threatened by men.
Not all men, before you say it, but the subset seems to get around.
And I don't know which one of you it is, so I have to treat you all as if you're Schrödinger's rapist.

My post was in jest (I tend to do that sometimes :pac:), but since you’ve taken it seriously, I can at least reassure you that the risk of you or your loved ones being killed, hit, raped or abused by someone who identifies themselves as transgender, is a lot more slim than the risk of you or your loved ones being killed, hit, raped or abused, by someone who identifies themselves as a man.

You’re perfectly entitled of course to treat all men as though they are Shrodingers rapist, but that only marks you out as one of those ideologues behind this idea of “rape culture”, when in reality the number of men who commit rape is around 7% - you’re unlikely ever to be raped, and even less likely to be raped by someone who identifies themselves as transgender.

You can go back to muddying the waters now.

Rory28

Regarding the Trans women going into female prisons. Where should we put them? In with the males?

[Deleted User]

ironwalk wrote: »

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Don’t be silly, there’s no such thing as a female sexual predator!

Cat, meet pigeons

You can muddy the waters by asking "what about women who kill/hit/rape/abuse" but the chances of me coming across one, is vanishingly small.

Interesting - so what are the chances of being raped or sexually abused by a transgender female?

In two years that we've legally allowed for self-identification of gender here, how many such incidents have we seen?

AllForIt

I think all these transgender controversies stem from one simple thing - most ppl do not accept the idea that one is internally one gender and outwardly another. Most ppl think it's a psychological issue. I do to. I have no doubt transgenders believe fully they are internally the opposite gender to their body and I don't see how anyone would have a problem with that per se. I don't. So being transphobic don't make much sense to me. Being nasty to minorities just for the sake of it is not on but having said that I'm not sure how widespread that is anyway.

Disagreeing with transgender rights of the kind we are hearing a lot of recently is a completely different thing to thoughtless transphobia. Radical transfolk are demanding this that and other and it is thoroughly right that these things are vigorously debated before any new rights are given.

It doesn't matter how accepting society is of ppl with gender dysphoria, this is not enough for the trans radicals. They know full well what most ppl's opinion is of gender dysphoria which I mentioned and all these issues concerning toilets etc is an attempt by them to change ppl's view on the issue, to force ppl to accept something they don't without conclusive proof which at this moment in time I don't think exists. Demanding preferred pronouns is a great example of how trans radicals are trying to hack an acceptance of their views on the issue, as if if they can get ppl to speak in a certain way that's equivalent to one thinking a certain way, the way they want. That tactic could only end in disaster and if there is a rise in transphobia their tactic would be the reason for it.

ironwalk

seamus wrote: »

Nobody was talking about women's rights. I was responding to a post which claimed that most women would agree with Linehan, i.e. that most women were anti-trans.

Nope, not buying that one either.
I am talking about women's rights.
G Linehan, as far as I can see, is also asserting protective rights for women. Not anti-trans.
It is not a logical progression that agreeing with Linehan = anti-trans.

Agree with his concerns for the potential loss of women rights, does not equal anti-trans.
Agree that predatory men will abuse trans rights to get at women, does not equal anti-trans.
Concern about children's hard-won safeguarding, does not equal anti-trans.

ironwalk

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Don’t be silly, there’s no such thing as a female sexual predator!

Cat, meet pigeons

Ah, here lads.
Men have the advantage in physical strength.
I have a fair chance against any female who wants to have a go; against even a mediocre man, nope, I'm going to come off badly injured.
Even a man who is shorter than me.
And, I'm on the tall, physically fit, well built end of the female spectrum.

You can muddy the waters by asking "what about women who kill/hit/rape/abuse" but the chances of me coming across one, is vanishingly small.
A man who can do that?
I could have one in my home, every time I go out at night, every time I have a drink out.

How many times have you been abused, against your will, by a woman?
Cos, for the vast majority of women, we have lots of stories of being touched-up or threatened by men.
Not all men, before you say it, but the subset seems to get around.
And I don't know which one of you it is, so I have to treat you all as if you're Schrödinger's rapist.

freshpopcorn

chicorytip wrote: »

Why are we even having this discussion and why does RTE deem the topic worthy of broadcast. Just how many of these "transgender" people are there in a small country like ours?

Well I started the thread because I saw the article online regarding the Primetime debate.
I think we're having this debate because we need to find the right way to go forward for our country.
People are generally unsure of what the whole thing entails and how a young kid may decided they want to change gender.
What age can they start the process?
How will this matter be discussed in school?
When do you say yes/the doctor says yes to your kid changing gender?
What are the consequences?
We all knew guys who may have being a bit feminine or girls who were masculine grow up or may have being ourselves. Will it be sold to these people they may have gender issues in the future.

seamus

ironwalk wrote: »

How has it got to the point that being concerned with woman's right is now equivalent to being "anti-trans".

Nobody was talking about women's rights. I was responding to a post which claimed that most women would agree with Linehan, i.e. that most women were anti-trans.

One eyed Jack

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And what if there is a female sexual predator in the tent or in the bathroom?

Don’t be silly, there’s no such thing as a female sexual predator!

Cat, meet pigeons

[Deleted User]

ironwalk wrote: »

AlphabetCards wrote: »

I get the impression they are. Ask how many are comfortable sharing a dressing room with a pre-op trans woman.

Dial Hard wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but it wouldn't bother me in the least. Same as I have no issue sharing unisex bathrooms with men.

Dial, my elderly mother would get a start and would probably apologise, imagining that she had wandered into the wrong changing room. It would bother her. She wouldn't be able to wander around the dressing room.

There are lots of women who are from non-Christian religious backgrounds who would have a problem with using a changing room or bathroom with men.

I'd have a problem with my teenager sharing with a teenage male-bodied person, in a dressing room, or a Scout tent, or a bathroom etc etc etc.

And what if there is a female sexual predator in the tent or in the bathroom?

The Bishop Basher

suicide_circus wrote: »

What kind of medical professional diagnoses gender dysphoria?

ironwalk wrote: »

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria
Psychiatrists

We're not allowed go there in these discussion for some reason.

Probably because facts get in the way of their ideology.

One eyed Jack

chicorytip wrote: »

Why are we even having this discussion and why does RTE deem the topic worthy of broadcast.

We’re having these discussions because it’s a topic that’s becoming more and more relevant for people in modern Irish society. RTÉ deem the topic worthy of broadcast because it’s considered a current affairs topic, just like many of the issues you mentioned below which RTE have also covered in great depth and detail on numerous programmes, not just current affairs programmes.

Just how many of these "transgender" people are there in a small country like ours? The number must be minute.

It’s true, the number that we know of is minuscule, but that number has been increasing exponentially over the last decade or so. It’s still minuscule, but there appears to be an increasing trend in the number of people who identify as transgender. Therefore RTÉ having noticed how the trend is going in the UK and the backlash that is happening over there, decide in their wisdom that it’s a topical issue ripe for generating controversy and increasing their own viewership - give the two extremes a platform, grab popcorn, sit back and watch them go at it. Advertisers will pay a fortune for ad slots because they know people will be watching. RTÉ makes more money.

I don't know if this kind of transformative surgery is available in the Republic of Ireland and as to what exactly it entails, well, my mind boggles. It would be interesting to see any Dept. of Health data on the matter, if it's available. Let's talk about issues that really matter such as the huge problems of alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness and suicide affecting our young people.
Let these shemale freaks bugger off to England with themselves.

There’s plenty of data available from the HSE and numerous other organisations, but the reality is that in Ireland at least, there’s not much more to it as of the passing into law of the Gender Recognition Act of 2015 than “I think, therefore I am” so to speak - one only has to apply to be legally recognised as their preferred gender, and set in motion a series of events that from that day on they are to be legally recognised as their preferred gender. Surgery is not required, and more and more people who identify as transgender are foregoing surgery in favour simply of social transition, which is peeing off a lot of the “Old Guard” as it were, who complain about people identifying themselves as transgender when they haven’t gone through medical or surgical transition and have no interest in or intention of doing so.

chicorytip

ironwalk wrote:

See in the interest of fairness, I can't agree with you there. You could insert "homosexuality" for transgender into your paragraph. How acceptable would it be to say "let these homosexual freaks bugger off to England with themselves". That's just another version of Irish intolerance, exporting our issues.

No, honestly. The actual number of gay/lesbian people among the general population is 2 to 3 %. Transgenders, I would reckon, would number a one ten-thousanth of that figure. My feck off to England comment was not meant literally, of course, but really, we need to have a sense of perspective about how highly issues such as this should rank in our national discourse.

JMNolan

RTE will 100% cave rather than appear to be in anyway other than completely loony left.

ironwalk

chicorytip wrote: »

Why are we even having this discussion and why does RTE deem the topic worthy of broadcast. Just how many of these "transgender" people are there in a small country like ours? The number must be minute. I don't know if this kind of transformative surgery is available in the Republic of Ireland and as to what exactly it entails, well, my mind boggles. It would be interesting to see any Dept. of Health data on the matter, if it's available. Let's talk about issues that really matter such as the huge problems of alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness and suicide affecting our young people.
Let these shemale freaks bugger off to England with themselves.

See in the interest of fairness, I can't agree with you there.
You could insert "homosexuality" for transgender into your paragraph.
How acceptable would it be to say "let these homosexual freaks bugger off to England with themselves".
That's just another version of Irish intolerance, exporting our issues.

No, I'm delighted RTE are having a debate. I hope it's a fair one. I hope they hear equally from both sides and that they insist on facts not feelings.
I hope that whatever small number of transgender people there are in this country, that they feel safe and supported.
I hope they understand that, while we're trying to work out how best to support them, that we also have a duty to safeguard women who's rights may be impacted. (And of course, transmen, who seem to get lost in this debate).
I hope that whatever your struggle or difficulty is, that we support you, even if its not one of the "huge problems" that we have.

[Deleted User]

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Why not? There’s no indication that RTÉ is going to give in, is there?

I dont know but Iv seen the twitter campaign against him.

His ideas are dangerous, we can repeat the highly successful section 31 censorship of SF and the campaign to ban discussion of abortion :pac::pac:

chicorytip

ironwalk wrote:

I'm not confused at all. The question was asked as to how many women "are comfortable sharing a dressing room with a pre-op trans woman".

Why are we even having this discussion and why does RTE deem the topic worthy of broadcast. Just how many of these "transgender" people are there in a small country like ours? The number must be minute. I don't know if this kind of transformative surgery is available in the Republic of Ireland and as to what exactly it entails, well, my mind boggles. It would be interesting to see any Dept. of Health data on the matter, if it's available. Let's talk about issues that really matter such as the huge problems of alcoholism, drug addiction, mental illness and suicide affecting our young people.
Let these shemale freaks bugger off to England with themselves.

Mod-Banned

ironwalk

suicide_circus wrote: »

What kind of medical professional diagnoses gender dysphoria?

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria
Psychiatrists

suicide_circus

seamus wrote: »

He's probably gone off the rails tbh. In a discussion where he insists that trans is a mental illness, Linehan probably needs psychiatric help of his own. It's an obsession for him at this stage.

What kind of medical professional diagnoses gender dysphoria?

Ash.J.Williams

StopWatch wrote: »

I'm unsure how I feel here,but In what way is the writer of Father Ted an expert panel member?

That's a silly thing to say..

Dante7

"Transgender woman goes crazy after being misgendered"

https://youtu.be/TgiOjhkiuhw

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ceadaoin. wrote: »

He's been banned from Twitter and interviewed by the police due to complaints of transphobia from a frankly dodgy character who happens to be a trans woman. This person also targeted his wife's business and tried to incite people to attack it. And has targeted other people in the past. Anyway linehan refused to back down and continues to talk about the issues/problems with "self id". Seems they are going for the controversy angle to get viewers in. Why are people trying to stop it though? Surely if he really is a raging bigot then the more airtime the better so that people can see it?

My thoughts too. I don’t understand the whole thing of getting people with massively unpopular views or whatever removed from discussions. If what they say is so bad or so easy to refute, then what have people got to fear? Just debate them and if your case is more logical than theirs, you’ll come out on top and show them up.

Have to say though, the wires seem to be coming a bit loose in Linehan’s head. I’m a fan of much of his work but as a person - oof! It’s not that I disagree with all his points on the topic - I’m very against preteens being given medication to stave off puberty, for example - but he just comes across unhinged.

ironwalk

Dick phelan wrote: »

Is there any issue that effects so few and yet gets so much coverage? Like honestly how many transgender people are there even in the country, I honestly only know of 1 lad that is. It's an issue that seems to get a seriously disproportionate amount of coverage, asking people to change what has been scientific fact of literally centuries to avoid hurting the feelings of a tiny minority. There are two genders Male and Female if you want to know which you are have a look downstairs,

I feel sad for trans people i really do, must be horrible to basically not be able to deal with who you are and to be so unhappy with it. That said just because you feel like X or want to be X doesn't mean you are. Maybe i want to be a Japanese Samurai but no matter how much i feel like one or want to be one the fact is I'm a white man from Ireland and nobody should have to entertain my delusions.

Dick, I think its a bit harsh to describe it as a delusion.
And, like many, you might be a little bit unclear in thinking that gender=sex.

The pity of the whole trans debate is that it has made gender stereotypes equivalent to genetic sex.
I might be male, but love knitting.
I might be female but love hurling.
Sex is not the same as gender.

But, in trans theory, if my little boy wants to play with Barbie and wear a princess costume, then he must be a girl "locked' in a boy's body.

This, to me, is the pity of it.
Why can't my daughter be interested in backwoods survival stuff and enjoy gutting a fish and be good at Maths. And still be a girl.
Why can't my son be kind, sensitive, good with small children, and excel at cooking. And still be a boy?

Dante7

Dial Hard wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but it wouldn't bother me in the least. Same as I have no issue sharing unisex bathrooms with men.

Would it bother you if you were a beatician and you were forced, by law to wax a self identifying trans woman's balls?
Would it bother you if you were confined in a woman's only institution and were sexually assualted by a woman with a penis?
Would it bother you if you were in a changing room shower and a woman washed her penis and balls beside you?
Would it bother you if children were being misdiagnised as gender dysphoric and given hormone blockers and possibly surgery only for it to be a phase they were going through?

It bothers me that in today's climate, even attempting to discuss these issues will get you labelled a transphobe and a bigot.

ironwalk

Dial Hard wrote: »

Hence my extremely clear caveat that I was speaking only for myself. What part of that did you find confusing?

I'm not confused at all.
The question was asked as to how many women "are comfortable sharing a dressing room with a pre-op trans woman".

It is important to emphasise the while some women such as yourself don't have a difficulty with it, there are many many women who do.

To draw an analogy, I would not be comfortable seeking an abortion. I can only speak for myself on the point.
I support and vote for the rights of other women to have one close to home and without judgement.

Dick phelan

Is there any issue that effects so few and yet gets so much coverage? Like honestly how many transgender people are there even in the country, I honestly only know of 1 lad that is. It's an issue that seems to get a seriously disproportionate amount of coverage, asking people to change what has been scientific fact of literally centuries to avoid hurting the feelings of a tiny minority. There are two genders Male and Female if you want to know which you are have a look downstairs,

I feel sad for trans people i really do, must be horrible to basically not be able to deal with who you are and to be so unhappy with it. That said just because you feel like X or want to be X doesn't mean you are. Maybe i want to be a Japanese Samurai but no matter how much i feel like one or want to be one the fact is I'm a white man from Ireland and nobody should have to entertain my delusions.

Dial Hard

ironwalk wrote: »

It may not bother some women, but let's not throw the rest under the bus.

Hence my extremely clear caveat that I was speaking only for myself. What part of that did you find confusing?