theguzman wrote: » No Deal will happen and the hard border will be coming back to the Island of Ireland. Gunther Krichbaum, chairman of the Committee on European Union Affairs of the German Bundestag has admitted today that the EU will overrule Irish wishes and implement a hard border in Ireland during an interview with BBC Radio Foyle today. I believe a German politician anyday over our ineffective Government, when Mutti calls Leo and says jump Leo will close the border wait and see.
brickster69 wrote: » Of course that will happen. It is an EU border now, not Irish.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » Why wouldn't they meet without the British PM? Does Juncker get invited to cabinet meetings?
theguzman wrote: » They voted to Leave, and leave means leave not some half baked example. A hard Brexit is all but inevitable now I think. Ireland should just go and tell the EU we will not be enforcing a hard border since Partition is not something we will be encouraging. We should also be pushing hard for a United Ireland and shakedown the EU to pay for the whole thing.
Bit cynical wrote: » Someone was querying whether it was possible for the EU members to meet and decide things (in that instance trade) without the input of the UK and asked me to provide examples.
theguzman wrote: » They voted to Leave, and leave means leave not some half baked example.
theguzman wrote: » A hard Brexit is all but inevitable now I think. Ireland should just go and tell the EU we will not be enforcing a hard border since Partition is not something we will be encouraging. We should also be pushing hard for a United Ireland and shakedown the EU to pay for the whole thing.
Anthracite wrote: » They can leave the EU and still be in the customs union, single market etc. In fact many people campaigned and won votes for 'leave' on that basis. We would be in violation of international treaties if we did that. That would be an idiotic idea.
theguzman wrote: » a proper Nationalist Govt here would be standing up to the UK and co-operating with the UK
theguzman wrote: » A customs union undermines economic sovereignty and imposes rules on the UK over which they have no input so they have to leave. It is easy for the Irish state to pull out of International treaties as required and if we had a proper Nationalist Govt here would be standing up to the UK and co-operating with the UK to get Brexit implemented on a mutually beneficial basis.
FreudianSlippers wrote: » EEA is all the obligations they have at the moment without any benefits; all free movements, taking EU law. They might be able to make their own third-nation trade deals, but they'd be hindered by single market rules and EFTA. The only positive for the UK to EEA is... fisheries?
theguzman wrote: » It is easy for the Irish state to pull out of International treaties as required and if we had a proper Nationalist Govt here would be standing up to the UK and co-operating with the UK to get Brexit implemented on a mutually beneficial basis.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » Indeed. It would irrational to discuss future relationships and negotiating strategy when the other party is in the room.
Bit cynical wrote: » Therefore this could also have been done with trade to avoid a conflict of interest. The point had been made that trade talks could not have occurred because the UK would have been on both sides of the table. However it is possible to exclude one party when necessary.
wiggle16 wrote: » It would effectively mean that Britain would be allowed to negotiate a trade deal on its own terms before deciding whether or not to leave the EU (the referendum wasn't legally binding and Article 50 can be revoked) and itself sets a bad precedent should another country decide to leave. Cameron went to Brussels to get a deal prior to the referendum to convince the UK to stay. Discussing trade while still a member state would be the exact opposite of that. It would turn into the UK govt trying to make leaving the EU an attractive option. That's also why the EU refused to discuss anything before Article 50 was invoked. It gives Britain an unfair advantage and would have turned Article 50 into something to threaten the EU with rather than being a part of the legal process. Besides, they can't even work out the legal relationship they want with the EU as things stand, never mind a trade deal.
jochenstacker wrote: » Will Sir be eating these words with ketchup or mustard?
Bit cynical wrote: » In your opinion. But I disagree with that. If a country is leaving a trading bloc, there's nothing wrong with discussing future trade arrangements once the country leaves. Yes, there would be a conflict of interest if that country was also on the other side of the table, but like I said earlier, that country could be exempted from representation in matters relating to trade while the talks are taking place. The new trading relationship would only come into force, of course, once the country leaves. It seems your main argument is "because the EU says so and that's that!".
Bit cynical wrote: » However, from the point of view of the UK, this might be attractive in two ways. 1. It complies at least with the letter of the 2016 vote. I think we here sometimes underestimate the weight this has in UK politics compared to referendums in this country. 2. It provides a bridge between total crash out and potential negotiated trade agreements with other countries. Sure these may be limited in scope while the UK is in the EEA, but better than nothing while better arrangements are sought. It is correct though that they will have little or no say in EU legislation applied to the UK through the EEA. A small country like Norway won't have much say anyway so they are not losing much by not being in the EU. But the UK is a large country in the EU so influence will be lost. The unfortunate thing for Ireland, in addition to undesired border checks, would be that the influence the UK had within the EU often worked in our favour. That would be lost.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » Correct. If there is no deal then there will be a hard border. This isn't news.
His father, Joe, had served in the Army during the 1950s, seeing service in Korea and Kenya, as well as a number of other places. He then became a customs officer and later joined the UDR in 1970, around the same time as the family moved to Enniskillen.
Irishmale0399 wrote: » A German politician was asked today on local German radio if he really felt that the British reports that the German economy would suffer badly after a no deal Brexit were true.......his answer was very simple and clear.... If they leave they have to do deals with the world which will take time and will not put them in a good position due to desperation to save their own economy.....Ireland, Germany, France etc. will all work together and get on, with or without the UK. The UK is not the EU...the EU is much bigger and stronger and we will stand together.
