Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Stop talking about forests and stay on point.

You asked me would I move in next door to a family that I was feuding with.

I answered the question by telling you that I wouldn't, and didn't.

Im not looking for the taxpayer to buy my house for me. Therefore I get around that problem.

Come to think of it, one could also say I got around the problem of not having to live near a family I was feuding with by not getting involved in any feuds. That's another novel approach to not living near a family I'm feuding with.

There are many ways in which to avoid living next to a family you are feuding with it would seem.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yes they still speak their own language. So your general argument is their culture has been so successfully destroyed they might as well give up. It doesn't bother you because you don't want to pay for it.

Now you do pay for it and always will that's just how it goes. Whether you think something is important or not the government and the world view of such things is more developed. There is funding and it is not being spent.

I also pointed out that your attitude is the same as the British population when the government was trying genocide of the Irish people and culture. No different you just not being self aware is a whole other issue

I'm not genociding anything. Neither am I suggesting they might as well give up their culture, as it has already been destroyed to paraphrase yourself.

They want it, they pay for it. It really isn't that difficult a concept.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why should we pay to maintain their lifestyle?

We pay for lots of peoples' lifestyles. We are providing for their accommodation like we do for thousands of others. Why should a minority ethnic group living in dire situations not be on the list?

They have as much right to live here as you and just because society moved on should they just die out? The whole ownership of land and trespassing came in with the British so you are basically just passing on part of their attempts to eradicate part of Irish society

tretorn

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The council are refusing to spend the money because locals object and they are badly managed. It is not impossible it is just difficult so they don't.

Now simply saying some ethnic group is of low IQ is racist. Nothing else and you can't twist it any other way. Plus IQ tests are nonsense

If they are continual mistreated they are not going to change. They die younger and live in pretty horrendous situations. I don't know the solution but what is being done is not good or working. You don't just repeat the same problems over and over again and expect a different outcome

Hmm, exactly.
If you have one child and no education and no job and no income other than state benefits then for the love of God get yourself some contraception.

If you throw filth and waste around the environment where you live then you will live in filth. If you have a feud with someone and you cant afford to house your own family elsewhere then dont leave whatever accommodation you have and drag your children to the side of the road. Dont whine about taking your children to a school miles away if you have left accommodation or have refused accomodation because it isnt located where you want to live, beggars cant be choosers and all that.

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

I'm not genociding anything. Neither am I suggesting they might as well give up their culture, as it has already been destroyed to paraphrase yourself.

They want it, they pay for it. It really isn't that difficult a concept.

Yes the same as the attitude of the British population.

I explained why we pay for it and will continue to do so. You are perfectly clear in your view that people living in poverty should somehow make more money so they can live in the way that keeps the in poverty. They can't afford it because of how society changed when they didn't. They do have a protected status.

Unless you want to run for government and bring in right wing policies against the EU membership agreements it isn't going to change.

There is a fund that could improve things and the council have access to it but aren't, do you think that is a good thing? Now the fund is decided no matter how you feel and the situation for these people is literally life threatening. Is it just you begrudge them getting help they obviously need?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

We pay for lots of peoples' lifestyles. We are providing for their accommodation like we do for thousands of others. Why should a minority ethnic group living in dire situations not be on the list?

They have as much right to live here as you and just because society moved on should they just die out? The whole ownership of land and trespassing came in with the British so you are basically just passing on part of their attempts to eradicate part of Irish society

Said ethnic minority groups culture makes it almost impossible to exist without subsidy from the taxpayer.

It's a cultural problem. Not a "but I know a settled mans who hasn't worked a day in his life and spends his days in the pub" issue.

What about that is so hard for you to accept?

mfceiling

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If they are continual mistreated they are not going to change. They die younger and live in pretty horrendous situations. I don't know the solution but what is being done is not good or working. You don't just repeat the same problems over and over again and expect a different outcome

The problem is that a lot of them don't want to change. They don't want to get up in the morning and go to work. They don't want their kids to improve their school work and continue to third level education. They don't want their daughters to get a job because having babies and minding the house/caravan is more important. They don't want their kids marrying outside the traveller groups. They don't want to give up the benefits they currently receive.

I know a teacher who has 2 traveller kids in her class. They don't bother doing their homework or listening to her in school. They have an SNA teacher for additional help but don't engage with her. When she tried to talk to the kids mother about their behaviour and getting them to do their homework she was told "keep your nose put of our business".

The government direct a lot of resources in their direction but a lot of it is ignored or disregarded.

tretorn wrote: »

[/B]

Hmm, exactly.
If you have one child and no education and no job and no income other than state benefits then for the love of God get yourself some contraception.

If you throw filth and waste around the environment where you live then you will live in filth. If you have a feud with someone and you cant afford to house your own family elsewhere then dont leave whatever accommodation you have and drag your children to the side of the road. Dont whine about taking your children to a school miles away if you have left accommodation or have refused accomodation because it isnt located where you want to live, beggars cant be choosers and all that.

It is a fair point but I would hope the civil servants are better educated. You can't really give out to somebody for the audacity to be not sent to school. The thing is the Travellers aren't given an opportunity and socially it is difficult to change. This also applies to many council estates around the country. Poverty traps are a lot to do with social pressures.

Some do settle down and there are well maintained halting sites.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yes the same as the attitude of the British population.

I explained why we pay for it and will continue to do so. You are perfectly clear in your view that people living in poverty should somehow make more money so they can live in the way that keeps the in poverty. They can't afford it because of how society changed when they didn't. They do have a protected status.

Unless you want to run for government and bring in right wing policies against the EU membership agreements it isn't going to change.

There is a fund that could improve things and the council have access to it but aren't, do you think that is a good thing? Now the fund is decided no matter how you feel and the situation for these people is literally life threatening. Is it just you begrudge them getting help they obviously need?

1) The ignorance of your 'British' statement. They violently attempted to wipe out our language, our religion tried to starve us to death over the course of a millennium and you honestly think that's being done by me to travellers? You need to get a grip. And read a (few) history book(s).

2) more of your dross. Plenty of people fall on hard times. Society is far from perfect and many hard working folk find it difficult (or impossible) to make ends meet. This isn't about 'poor people' or poverty. This is about a section of society who choose to live a lifestyle (constant moving around, heaps of children at a young age, no education) that is impossible to maintain without subsidy.

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

Stop talking about forests and stay on point.

You asked me would I move in next door to a family that I was feuding with.

I answered the question by telling you that I wouldn't, and didn't.

Im not looking for the taxpayer to buy my house for me. Therefore I get around that problem.

Why won't you talk about other minorities and how they should be treated?

The beggars choosers argument, I got it very straight forward some would say childish. Answered that several times we are obliged to under our policies. Putting feuding families together is madness. The do checks on this stuff for council housing for non-travellers BTW

Now do you want to explain what level of protections minorities should be given? General explanation of when it is OK because I am not sure what level I should be aiming at to be like you.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Why won't you talk about other minorities and how they should be treated?

The beggars choosers argument, I got it very straight forward some would say childish. Answered that several times we are obliged to under our policies. Putting feuding families together is madness. The do checks on this stuff for council housing for non-travellers BTW

Now do you want to explain what level of protections minorities should be given? General explanation of when it is OK because I am not sure what level I should be aiming at to be like you.

I don't live in the amazonian rainforest, therefore my knowledge of the trials and tribulations of tribes living there is limited and an attempt by you to skewer the argument into something else.

It's childish now to earn your own money and pay for your own house and where you want to live? Put down the Karl Marx book.

Again, I've given you 2 distinct ways in which to avoid the situation of living next to a family you're feuding with.

When you say 'protection' do you mean like protection from a violent clan that you're involved in a feud with?

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

1) The ignorance of your 'British' statement. They violently attempted to wipe out our language, our religion tried to starve us to death over the course of a millennium and you honestly think that's being done by me to travellers? You need to get a grip. And read a (few) history book(s).

2) more of your dross. Plenty of people fall on hard times. Society is far from perfect and many hard working folk find it difficult (or impossible) to make ends meet. This isn't about 'poor people' or poverty. This is about a section of society who choose to live a lifestyle (constant moving around, heaps of children at a young age, no education) that is impossible to maintain without subsidy.

1) You keep missing that I am talking about the British POPULATION. You might want to look up Traveller history because the Irish govenrment did take traveller children and tried to stamp out their ways. You have the same attitude the British popular opinion which is basically don't care let them pay for themselves. That was the prevailing view on the famine. Which you illustrate perfectly in point 2
2)It isn't the fell on hard times. The way the lived became incompatible with modern ways. The options left to them has them in poverty. The options they were given came from the government. The government are therefore responsible to at least assist that is morally, legally and financial.

It does not matter what you think the world view on minorities and social responsibility in the west is this way. You may think it is PC BS but if you take a step back and compare it to how you would feel about other minorities not being protected you would likely not be talking like this on the subject. Of course you could just be a racist

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

I don't live in the amazonian rainforest, therefore my knowledge of the trials and tribulations of tribes living there is limited and an attempt by you to skewer the argument into something else.

It's childish now to earn your own money and pay for your own house and where you want to live? Put down the Karl Marx book.

Again, I've given you 2 distinct ways in which to avoid the situation of living next to a family you're feuding with.

When you say 'protection' do you mean like protection from a violent clan that you're involved in a feud with?

I'll keep it simple what level of racist are you? Is it just particular groups you met or you dislike some you never met? If you went to the rain forest and a lost tribe member stole you knife, does that make them all thieves?

Lol go look up what I normally post and see how I align with Karl Marx

It is childish to use beggars and choosers argument. To bring down any complex argument down to a common phrase as some sort of trump card is childish. To not recognise that through actual ignorance or faned ignorance by making the "it is now.." as response is equally childish.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

1) You keep missing that I am talking about the British POPULATION. You might want to look up Traveller history because the Irish govenrment did take traveller children and tried to stamp out their ways. You have the same attitude the British popular opinion which is basically don't care let them pay for themselves. That was the prevailing view on the famine. Which you illustrate perfectly in point 2
2)It isn't the fell on hard times. The way the lived became incompatible with modern ways. The options left to them has them in poverty. The options they were given came from the government. The government are therefore responsible to at least assist that is morally, legally and financial.

It does not matter what you think the world view on minorities and social responsibility in the west is this way. You may think it is PC BS but if you take a step back and compare it to how you would feel about other minorities not being protected you would likely not be talking like this on the subject. Of course you could just be a racist

In the famine food was exported and the people here were not able to farm their own land. It's absolutely neither here nor there with this conversation.

I couldn't care less about what the 'British population' think. And that you seem to honestly think that's being done to travellers now tells me plenty about your understanding of this countries history.

Tell me about these options the government left them with that has them in poverty? Is it the government's fault that we have mass production that renders the ol tinsmithing obsolete?

I'd have no problem seeing them getting that up and running again if it's viable.

Ah yeah. Racist. I was wondering how long it would take. Sure everyone is nowadays.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I'll keep it simple what level of racist are you? Is it just particular groups you met or you dislike some you never met? If you went to the rain forest and a lost tribe member stole you knife, does that make them all thieves?

Lol go look up what I normally post and see how I align with Karl Marx

It is childish to use beggars and choosers argument. To bring down any complex argument down to a common phrase as some sort of trump card is childish. To not recognise that through actual ignorance or faned ignorance by making the "it is now.." as response is equally childish.

What are you even on about "it is now" what did I respond to with that comment? Where did I mention beggars and choosers anything? You're going as far as to make up crap now.

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

What are you even on about "it is now" what did I respond to with that comment? Where did I mention beggars and choosers anything? You're going as far as to make up crap now.

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

It's childish now to earn your own money and pay for your own house and where you want to live? Put down the Karl Marx book.

You are saying they don't get to choose because it is free. How is that not beggars and choosers. The whole argument is childish.

So what level of racist are you?

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You are saying they don't get to choose because it is free. How is that not beggars and choosers. The whole argument is childish.

So what level of racist are you?

OK so "it is now childish to earn your own money and pay for your own stuff"

Is that satisfactory?

Oh no my good man. You see the thing is, nothing is free. Things have to be paid for by someone. Resources are finite.

Just don't bother with the racist thing lad. As I've said everyone is nowadays. People like you have rendered that term meaningless.

Since you're the one throwing the accusation around *snigger* maybe you can tell me.

I tell you what. I'll give up. You win. A magic fairy (or taxpayer whatevers easiest) should build free halting sites to accommodate people who's only ambition is to rattle around the country from place to place (just not where folk of their own kind happen to be already God forbid) making pots and pans and doing seasonal farm work. All the while never making nearly enough to support the lifestyle they choose to live. I'll even pay for it myself personally.

I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. Genius idea. Maybe we should all do it.

Ruraldweller56 wrote: »

OK so "it is now childish to earn your own money and pay for your own stuff"

Is that satisfactory?

Oh no my good man. You see the thing is, nothing is free. Things have to be paid for by someone. Resources are finite.

Just don't bother with the racist thing lad. As I've said everyone is nowadays. People like you have rendered that term meaningless.

Since you're the one throwing the accusation around *snigger* maybe you can tell me.

I tell you what. I'll give up. You win. A magic fairy (or taxpayer whatevers easiest) should build free halting sites to accommodate people who's only ambition is to rattle around the country from place to place (just not where folk of their own kind happen to be already God forbid) making pots and pans and doing seasonal farm work. All the while never making nearly enough to support the lifestyle they choose to live. I'll even pay for it myself personally.

I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. Genius idea. Maybe we should all do it.

You don't get it at all. It has already happened the government are providing the money. It is there it isn't costing you anything more but is just sitting there. Nobody else is using it and it will never fund anything else.

Not everyone is racist and if you think they are you have a really warped view. You are racist. Is it just travellers or is there more? You can stand by your views if you believe them.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You don't get it at all. It has already happened the government are providing the money. It is there it isn't costing you anything more but is just sitting there. Nobody else is using it and it will never fund anything else.

Not everyone is racist and if you think they are you have a really warped view. You are racist. Is it just travellers or is there more? You can stand by your views if you believe them.

Yeah lad. I really don't get it. You've gone jumping from tribes living in the forest, British occupation of Ireland, putting words into my mouth about beggars and choosing or some crap and "it is now". I really don't know what the fcuk you're on about.

Now all you're slobbering on about is racist this and that.

tretorn wrote: »

The Council arent refusing to spend money.

The problem is no one wants travellers in their locality and its impossible for councils to progress plans for halting sites.

Its a waste of time anyway. These people are generally of low iQ and constantly getting into fueds with each other over nothing. One party to the fued will then upsticks and move to the side of the road and then contact the meeja saying they are homeless and the council wont do anything for them.

We are having this conversation since 1960 and travellers havent improved their lot at all. Most of the problems they have are self inflicted, how many of us could afford to take our families to Lanzarote at Christmas time or fly to Australia and New Zealand for holidays. I dont know why these people even left Rathkeale, the holidays seemed to consist of shoplifting, drinking, littering beaches, annoying and intimidating other people, basically everything these scrotes do at home. seriously, whats to be gained by travelling except too show the world what the Irish taxpayer is funding and putting up with.

Travellers are the most over indulged special interest group in the country, we have had all carrot and no stick this past three decades and things have never been worse, we need to completely start over with a new generational plan, this time the liberals can remain outside the room

Ray Palmer wrote: »

The council are refusing to spend the money because locals object and they are badly managed. It is not impossible it is just difficult so they don't.

Now simply saying some ethnic group is of low IQ is racist. Nothing else and you can't twist it any other way. Plus IQ tests are nonsense

If they are continual mistreated they are not going to change. They die younger and live in pretty horrendous situations. I don't know the solution but what is being done is not good or working. You don't just repeat the same problems over and over again and expect a different outcome

It's not working because there is no incentive for travellers to get their act together, liberals tell Travellers they have no agency due to systematic oppression and travellers have grown accustomed to a life of complete and total dependency

Liberals are the obstacle to travellers improving their situation, by abandoning their wretched culture, they could in time become like everyone else and lead rewarding lives, the current freak show is a tragedy but nothing can change until the truth starts being told, unfortunately a small but highly influential group of people love the lie too much

Roger Hassenforder

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You may think it is PC BS but if you take a step back and compare it to how you would feel about other minorities not being protected you would likely not be talking like this on the subject. Of course you could just be a racist

"Protected"... "minority"?

Is there another minority, 85% of whose adult male population is unemployed, where family sizes are roughly twice the normal size, whose females are 16 times as likely to have the shıt beaten out of them by their partner, whose women are 18 to 22 times, and whose men are 5 to 11 times as likely to be imprisoned? Where they've 3 times the disability rates of the general population? Are there gangs of other minorities roving the countryside terrorising rural communities? Whose social events are inevitably marred by serious violence necessitating HSE triage and the CAB and ERUs on standby, towns shutting down. Minorities where family fueds, petty crime, fraud and environmental pollution are the norm. Where ostentatious displays of wealth despite limited lawful means, from cradle to the grave is required. Religious hypocrisy the norm.

Theres plenty of minorities in Ireland. Ive had good and bad experiences with all types. Ive yet to have a positive one with a M.O.T.T.C.

If every Amazonian i met robbed my knife or threatened me, or made me feel unsafe, guess what? I wouldnt care too much for them

The problem is getting worse.
The carrot hasnt worked, yet you're advocating throwing more money and resources at the problem. Society has had enough of them.
We've done our part.

Ah but "something....Racists"
Jog on.

I see sheep

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

However, I will note that Margaret Cash has been known to post on Facebook hoping that Leo Varadkar dies a painful death. Are you going to criticize her for her lack of respect and compassion?

Yes I would criticise her for that, but Varadkar and FG/FF policies have done far more damage to the country than travellers .. no threads about the people really harming society, only the poorest people.

Where's all the money going?
Ah it must be with the poorest people, definitely not with the people who have all the money

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

"Protected"... "minority"?

Is there another minority, 85% of whose adult male population is unemployed, where family sizes are roughly twice the normal size, whose females are 16 times as likely to have the shıt beaten out of them by their partner, whose women are 18 to 22 times, and whose men are 5 to 11 times as likely to be imprisoned? Where they've 3 times the disability rates of the general population? Are there gangs of other minorities roving the countryside terrorising rural communities? Whose social events are inevitably marred by serious violence necessitating HSE triage and the CAB and ERUs on standby, towns shutting down. Minorities where family fueds, petty crime, fraud and environmental pollution are the norm. Where ostentatious displays of wealth despite limited lawful means, from cradle to the grave is required. Religious hypocrisy the norm.

Theres plenty of minorities in Ireland. Ive had good and bad experiences with all types. Ive yet to have a positive one with a M.O.T.T.C.

If every Amazonian i met robbed my knife or threatened me, or made me feel unsafe, guess what? I wouldnt care too much for them

The problem is getting worse.
The carrot hasnt worked, yet you're advocating throwing more money and resources at the problem. Society has had enough of them.
We've done our part.

Ah but "something....Racists"
Jog on.

I used to just assume that liberals were plain dumb, eventually I realised that they know damn well what travellers get up to, it's just the cultural left so despise us the bourgeois middle class, they will champion every and any counter mainstream group out there.

The media, quango and academic class - breed really are an awful bunch of oddballs, not a whit of sense but they more than make up for it in arrogance

Roger Hassenforder

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You don't get it at all. It has already happened the government are providing the money. It is there it isn't costing you anything more but is just sitting there. Nobody else is using it and it will never fund anything else.

Public money doesnt just rest in accounts for ever. A budget is made available to be drawn down subject to whatever predefined criteria being met. If it isnt drawn down, it gets used elsewhere. But the money doesnt exist until its drawn down.

It ticks a box, money has been made available, but the bloody Councils just wont use it. The bloody Councils cant/wont draw it down, because its either too difficult to get, or projects die in Council chambers, where Councillors know its political suicide to be seen campaigning for a halting site in their electoral area.